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If I'm an MGTOW type, why am I here? Because I never gave up entirely on women, and never plan to, but I've never really gone out of my way to get them either. Masturbation looked good when I was 13, it looked good during my college years when I turned down lots of opportunities to lose my virginity, it looked good at age 27, after I finally lost my virginity, it looked good 99.9% of the time in my 30's when I found it easy to get girlfriends (the .1% is the time actually engaged in the sex act with a cooperative woman), it looked good during a ten-year spell starting about age 42 when I gave up on sex, it looked good after deciding to break the dry spell back in June of this year, then a month later discarding the woman when she started to become a PITA (not that I was every really that attracted to her), and continues to look good now, even though I've been seeing a semi-pro escort for the past month (met her on seekingarrangement.com) who I'll probably stop seeing pretty soon, because I'm finding paid sex to be boring, worse than masturbating to fantasies of women who actually like the sex.
Real sex with a partner is simply not that much big a deal, at least not to me. More than anything, I wanted to retire young, because I always hated working and not having freedom to spend my time as a I chose. Lack of freedom and lack of money is what really made me unhappy, not the lack of a woman and especially not the lack of children, who I never wanted. And I saw early on that women could potentially interfere with early retirement, and that is why I avoided them for the most part. I made a few slips during my late 20's, once to lose my virginity and then again to get some more experience. Both times, the women tried to get pregnant on me because they saw I had a good job and probably had a lot of money saved up too. (I couldn't help blabbing about saving and investing and similar money topics, since these topics obsessed me.) Both said condoms made them sore, then they said the birth control pill was making them sick. At least they gave me hints of what they were up to. I made sure to sabotage these relationships pronto and go back to being alone. Finally I met a girl who I liked very much as a friend/soulmate. Conveniently enough, she stopped wanting to have normal sex with me as soon as she moved in with me, so no risk of pregnancy there. She let me f*ck her in the mouth and anus only. I mostly used her mouth. I never have been interested in anal sex. Then finally she stopped being interested in sex at all. After I kicked her out, she moved in with another guy who she told me she also didn't want to have sex with. We continue to be friends. After I retired at age 35, I started to have sex with older women, who were all supposedly incapable of getting pregnant (IUD or sterile due to hysterectomy, sterile from chemotherapy, post-menopause) and then I got a vasectomy myself. My last girlfriend was 23 years older than me. When I broke up with her, I gave up on sex for 10 years because it just seemed like too much work for too little payoff. Cost was no longer the issue, since I now had plenty of money to afford a girlfriend. But being retired made me value my time and freedom even more highly than before, and women seemed like a big drain on both.
Anyway, I'm not sure why I decided to break my long dry spell back in this past June, but I did, and that when I began looking around the internet and now I've come across this site. I've been traveling at least 6 months/year for the past 10 years, but I never met a women during those years of traveling. Mostly that travel was in Europe, though I also went to Mexico and Guatemala. I probably had lots of offers that I ignored, because I'd developed a habit of ignoring women's indications of interest starting back in my teens. I think I'll be a more receptive to offers in the future. I'm planning to visit Spain then Bulgaria my next trip to Europe (for about 5 months in SpringSummer 2015) and maybe Ukraine in 2016. I don't want marriage, but it would be nice to have a girlfriend to have sex for several months each year. I don't think I want a full-time companion, on the other hand. I'm probably going to look for women in around age 40, since that seems the time when they are most open to sex. I've never had sex with a woman under age 30. They just don't interest me. The women over age 50 are often the most receptive to sex, but unfortunately they mostly have health problems so they can't actually have sex. Plus they mostly look horrible (that one who was 23 years older than me was an exception, she's still great looking at age 76). I'm in great shape myself. Easy for me to knock off 50 push-ups, weight and waist size same as in high-school.
Anyway, like I said, I'm mostly looking for advice on women age 35 to 55 (or above, if still in good shape) who have a high sex drive and are still capable of sex, and who would be interested in an average looking white man, 5'11" (180cm) who is in excellent physical condition and can spend maybe $2000/month subsidizing the woman, for relationships lasting maybe 4 months, preferably in Europe. The high sex drive is the biggest problem I find with women in the United States. I had a number of conversations with women prior to meeting that woman in June, and they all seemed low libido types, and the one I finally hooked up with was also low libido, in the sense that anything and everything was more important than sex: fixing her computer, taking her daughter roller-skating (she's a single mother, naturally, that's all I'm likely to find at this point, from what I can see), doing laundry, shopping, television, etc. She appeared to enjoy the sex when we finally got going (she said I'm the best lover she ever had, though that could be flattery, I know some women say that to ever man, though I do have excellent self-control due to my many years of masturbation practice), but Jeez, what a lot of hassle to get to that point, and then that's all for now because she's too buy to see me again until next week. All I can think is "if I'm going to be masturbating 90% of the time, why not just ditch the woman and make it 100% masturbation, so as not to have postpone masturbation in order to be ready for these scraps of sex she throws me now and then".
For younger guys, here is my advice. I have zero regrets about never marrying, never having children and not having a lot of sex partners. I am totally and completely happy that I chose the road of early retirement instead of lots of sex partners. I don't think early retirement will be as easy for the younger generation, but it is still possible. I recommend guys defend themselves against shaming tactics regarding masturbation. Masturbation IS sex. Yes, if you masturbate a lot, you'll be less motivated to seek our flesh-and-blood sex partners and eventually may have erectile difficulty with real women (see yourbrainonporn). I fail to see the problem. Masturbation IS sex, except with no STDs, no child-support, no alimony, no false rape charges, no expenses, no bullshit from someone whose company you are enduring solely for sake of sex. You don't need to go full MGTOW and say "I'm giving up on sex and that'll teach these women a lesson". Instead, take the attitude: "If a woman wants me, here I am. Though I might not be able to get erect with a woman for a few months while transitioning from masturbation back to real sex. If she doesn't want to wait until my transition is over, too bad."
The PUA-shaming about being afraid of rejection makes me laugh. If I'm such a sensitive type, why was I approaching like a madman, being rejected 99% of the time and never letting it get me down, while selling for my business? Only time I'm reluctant to approach is with women, everywhere else, I can be plenty aggressive. Maybe because in business I really believed in my product, whereas I don't really believe that strongly in sex. If women want sex, they should make it easy for me. If they don't want sex, then it's a waste of my time to try to convince them to have sex. I think women do want sex, but they are too screwed up to realize it. Well, that's not my problem to fix, is it?
The man does 90% of the work in sex, the woman gets 90% of the pleasure, same as with partner dancing (I was excellent at salsa back in my 30's and also do tango okay). Therefore the women should be expected to at least meet the men halfway. They don't have to ask the men to dance, they don't have to say yes everytime. But if they give me crap, I'm walking off. And that's exactly what I did with both dancing and sex eventually. And that's what every man should do, IMO. If 99% of the men do this, then the remaining 1% get all the sex. I really don't care. I'd rather masturbate than have sex with women with such low standards that they'll have sex with the sort of men who'll put up with crap to get sex (read that sentence carefully).
I think most men my age are just as big screw-ups as the women. Just look at those pot-bellies. Women at least have the excuse that the female body does naturally pile on fat on the hips in mid-life. But men have no excuse for not having the same physique at age 55 as at age 25. Women are no more obligated to be interested in sex than you are obligated to be interested in makeup. If there is surplus of males versus females so that you'll never have a real life sex partner, so what? You can have all the orgasms you want via masturbation. I don't have tons of notches (maybe 20) but that's enough to say masturbation is at least 90% of the pleasure of real sex and that last 10% is just not that big a deal. Like a fancy restaurant versus a simple restaurant.
You might also want to read up on John B. Calhoun's rat crowding experiments. This is probably the biological reason for the MGTOW phenomenon. Men like me are sensitive to the feeling that the world is overpopulated and so we react same as the male rats in those experiements. We spend our time taking care of ourselves, rather than breeding. We become the "beautiful ones", because we have no scars from fighting the other males for mates, and live long happy lives. Eventually the whole rat colony goes extinct. There is a lot in common between these experiments and the phenomena in Japan with the "grass eaters". I say embrace this future. I couldn't care less about humanity going extinct. Planet Earth is doomed eventually, if nothing else then the Sun will eventually burn out. So what if humans go extinct in a hundred years and then have to be re-evolved from apes? All I care about is the next 50 years, which is likely all I have left to live.
Of course, if you're like me and retired and with excess time and money, then no reason not to spend some of that time and money looking for a woman if I have nothing better to do with it. But given that this quest is mainly a way to kill time, no reason to get bitter about the quest never succeeding. And no reason to miss out on pleasure by not masturbating during this quest.
I can see I've rambled on quite a bit. But hey, disk space is cheap nowadays, right?
There are perfectly good MGTOW-oriented websites around, but this is not one of them. This website is called HappierAbroad and it implores men to think out of the box in terms of how to live their life, and how to acquire a wife. While some members are indeed drawn to the MGTOW-mindset, they are a minority and do not embody the true meaning of what Winston Wu, our founder, intended HA to be about. If a life without women makes you happy and masturbation fulfills you, there's really no point for you in joining a website called "HappierAbroad". You can jack off and live alone at home just fine.
You can keep your advice, and your opinions, and take them to the Men Going Their Own Way forum where it belongs. Regardless of our differences in opinion, I wish you the best of luck in the winter of your life. I hope for your sake you continue to be happy with your life's choices when you are in your sixties or seventies.
Thanks The. I went over to that MGTOW.com forum. Some really bitter loser types there. I'm not bitter. I'm cold, unemotional, sociopathic, nihilistic, something of a parasite on society, but bitter, no. I think a lot of men's bitterness has to do with lack of sex and/or the shit they put up with to get sex. Masturbate and you have unlimited orgasms. (At least if you practice Taoist style solo cultivation of enlightenment, without peak orgasm. Masturbating to peak orgasm will leave you drained, angry and eventually quite bitter.)
Also, my initial post was very long, but if you read it carefully, you'll note that I am currently interested in: (a) living abroad a good chunk of the year; (b) meeting women for sex abroad; (c) learning from other men about points a and b. So I do indeed think I belong on this forum. What I'm not interested in is marriage and children, but from looking over the archives, it doesn't appear that the majority of people on this site are actually getting married and having children with foreign women. A few are, but not the majority. So again, I don't feel that I'm out of place.
I'm also not interested in P4P, which is what many of the guys here are actually doing, contrary to all the talk of marriage and children and traditional values. Or maybe P4P is traditional. It's in the Bible, after all. Starting in the book of Genesis. I tried semi-P4P (extended arrangement) recently with a semi-pro and it is boring. I have no shame or moral scruples about P4P, but sex with someone who isn't really into it is boring to me, as I already noted.
Anyway, I really don't want to be around those bitter losers at mgtow.com, so I will indeed hang out here.
I am hereby nominating MarcosZeitola as Chief Mod.
"Well actually, she's not REALLY my daughter. But she does like to call me Daddy... at certain moments..."
lasttry, you are perfectly right here. Even Winston is on kind of MGTOW. The last years he got not much sex because he was in the USA and Taiwan. So for some limited time he choses this lifestyle.
I am kind of like you in my whole thinking. I am 41 years old but I had more or less the same strategy. I am first time now in Pattaya in did for the first time P4P. Though I did not the P4P in Europe I think here it feels quite natural. I think one always gives something like your looks, money, charm to a girls. Many times it is interchangeable. At least that´s how it likes to me now. But maybe I am wrong as I am a newbie in this field.
I like it how you value masturbation that´s also exactly how I see it. I think you are completely right in that many people do maturbation the wrong ways. Doing the peak orgasm makes you feel weak and exhaustet. People have to realize that. Also it´s important to include sessions without media like porn only with the your mind cinema. This enables to have the techniques to get aroused without outside stimuli so one becomes not addicted to porn. Some people read and write erotic literature which I think is valuable too.
When being with women or pros. one will need the mind cinema again to make some stories. People like what is difficult to reach so you have to have to build stories to make sex interesting. The mind is the greatest sex system in the body.
Even if you would be a monk, nothing wrong with joining the forum. As long as one can go to other countries in their mind everything is good. It´s all about creativeness and imagination. Some people go abroad and are dull like before or even more duller after excessive dringing and so on. Some never left their city but know exremely more about differen countries. And this site is not only about happier abroad. There are many different topics here.
Keep um the masturbation tips.
If the community would have me, I'd be up for the task. Things would probably change quite a bit around here if we teamed up and got serious about removing rotten apples and people who simply don't belong. Winston's quest to be inclusive for a wide variety of different men, has in many ways led to low quality posters coming here, and men with low quality lifestyles and zero ambition to actually do what the site's title promises; to go Abroad, and to be Happier. It should be an environment of encouragement, free of hatred, and beaming with optimism. One should leave it feeling better about the future, looking forward for what adventures lie ahead, rather then pessimistic. No to defeatism, yes to optimism.
Oh and trolls, we'd ban the shit out of trolls. They add nothing, they bore me and they are a waste of time. Playtime lasts far too long, far too many gullible fools entertain them and feed into their delusions. Trolling should never full under "freedom of speech".
What a irony. You would have banned Winston. He was a monger living in AC and still sees it as his best times. Now he is in MGTOW mode where nothing is going with women. Winston is the last guy who is in Christian Morals but you are. So it would make sense as zboy did it and leave because Winston is not a traditional person so your morals will not dominate this forum. Why don´t you make a conservative version of HA?
Oh I know... Winston is hardly an example of morality. Him and I are two very different people. But the one thing he and I agree on, is that we see HA as having a very concrete goal: to seek the company of women abroad. Whether this is for purely sex, short-lived relationships, whoring or actual love and marriage, that is for every man to decide for himself. It just seems silly to me to leave the West "because the women suck", then go to a place where you can still find good women and instead of marrying them, pumping and dumping them. Quite counter-productive.
The last thing I want to do is stage some sort of coupe, of course, but I do see major differences between the moral members and their immoral counterparts. Over the last days, weeks and months, many good posters have left. Some quietly, others by announcing it in a thread. Some came across whiny, but all of them had (in my opinion) good intentions. What remains is the trolls and the crazies, and a few good posters who (sadly) post a lot less.
I don't know if I should make a conservative version of HA... but I might. I've discussed the matter with a friend over Skype recently, and he seemed interested. I am sure other posters would be too. Men like that don't fit in at many of HA's counterparts... the MGTOW crowd and others are a bunch of losers with goals very different from their own.
It's okay not to be traditional, in some ways. Some traditions might hold a man back, just as some rules or laws would. These can be tossed aside, ignored, if only temporarily. What works, works, what doesn't work doesn't work. But at the end of the day, you have to make concessions, you have to take risks and dive in head-first. Don't chicken out, don't wait and plot and plan at home endlessly... especially not when you're young! Life's too short to waste.
I'm traditional in some ways, unconditional in others. I've been called many things: an ideologue, a preacher, a liberal, a hippie, a conservative, a racist, a leftist, a rightist... I do have a vision on how to live life, on how to escape, on how to be free. It's an attitude, that I feel should be the heart of HappierAbroad. But I'm just one poster. I might as well be a lone man screaming in the desert at this point.
I support you as Chief Mod but I'm a little worried, if you get the position..... where will I go for masturbation tips?
"Well actually, she's not REALLY my daughter. But she does like to call me Daddy... at certain moments..."
Although you can't "ban" the forum owner, I would have "warned" him a couple of times myself. Once was when he started an unnecessary flame war with Scott Mallon (AmericanInBangkok).
The other would be anytime he uses PM to repeatedly spam a list of people to get their input on a thread he's interested in.
Winston may be my hero, but that doesn't mean he's a saint.
Seriously, mods would do Winston no favors by being sycophants blindly adhering to the values he models at the moment. Winston makes a living from this site, I believe, and what he really needs is a healthy, growing site. Rather than just getting his ass kissed.
"Well actually, she's not REALLY my daughter. But she does like to call me Daddy... at certain moments..."
Nowadays there are remarkably many young Japanese men who fully agree with what you are writing.
Just meet some women for talk, but no co-habitation, no marriage, no children - totally independent. For sure with this policy as a man you can save a lot of money, it makes early retirement easier.
Well, he mentioned early retirement. The best way for early retirement is to save up and to consider to move overseas. To live abroad in a cheap country free of obligations - For doing this you clearly have to restrict your spendings on women in the Western world.
I am not sure however if the OP is considering a new life-style overseas.
I agree, many members here are incompatible with each other. I would however not really consider to classify them as 'moral or immoral' members based on my personal way of life.
HA is a forum for 'all and everything' regarding dating foreign women in any thinkable form and travelling/moving abroad. Whatever this might mean - girls for shorttime, girls for a longterm relationship, abroad for a few days vacation, abroad for the rest of your life etc...
HA seems mainly to serve straight men from USA, who have little experience about the lifestyle outside of their own area. Many of them have never been abroad, even do not have a passport.
About Winston, whatever you might think about him, I think, moderation of this HA-forum is very difficult. Not only are many members not compatible with each other, this HA-forum is an attractive place for trolls, feminists and similar troublemakers to sign up and post crap.
About Zboy1, he seems to be a nice moderate person and he tried to create a different troll-free section within this forum, but he decided to give up after a short while. I think he gave up too early.