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I'm a white American in my early 40's who would really like to dive into the world of foreign beauties but I have a lot of questions and concerns.
To be honest, I don't have a lot of luck with the ladies. I'm not bad-looking and am in decent shape, but I just can't seem to get that "charm" thing happening.
As we all know, American women are among the worst/hardest to impress.
But I spent 7 months in Europe a few years ago and had no luck there. So I definitely need advice.
In general there was a lot of anti-American sentiment (I was advised to tell people I was Canadian, which I occasionally did to no avail).
I spent about half the time in Western Europe (Ireland, Netherlands, Germany) and half in Eastern (mostly Lithuania, Poland).
I was expecting things to be easier in the poorer Eastern countries but there was already a cynical distrust of American guys there. In general, being a "rich Westerner" may have impressed them 20 years ago but not anymore.
Well, a few years have passed and I've decided to try again, but a little bit differently.
This time I signed up on an international online dating site first. I figure I'll get to know them online first, then go over to meet in person after some trust has been established.
I joined the site about a week ago and have been kept very busy responding to all the interested ladies, 90% of which are from 2 countries:
-The Ukraine, and
What kind of experience have you guys had with girls in those countries?
Are they all just trying to get you to bring them back to the US? Because my goal is to eventually be able to marry and stay in THEIR country, preferably one within the EU. I don't want to live in the US anymore, but I have no degrees or qualifications to get work/residence permits elsewhere.
And what percentage of them do you think are scammers?
So far none have asked me for money, but I've only been on for a week.
THANKS for any advice the veterans can offer. I've got more questions but I'll ask them in separate posts.
p.s.- is it worth the $10 to join singleabroad.com? The $50 for that Global Dating ebook?
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Welcome to the forum. The Philippines is definitely a top place for girls, relationships, sex, etc. and plus there's no language barrier there.
As to Ukraine, the stories are mixed. To read some trip reports or experiences, enter the country or region in the advanced search screen here:
What happened to you in Europe? Were the girls sociable and approachable but just platonic? That was my experience in Poland. But that's better than nothing. At least you don't feel like a creep for hitting on girls.
I wouldn't trust singlesabroad.com. Most of their pages and links are broken and don't even work. That shows how serious they are.
$50 for an Ebook is ridiculous and unfair. Most good Ebooks sell for $20 or less.
Try writing some girls for free on Tagged.com. Or use one of my dating sites here:
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.
Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!
"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
Yeah, more and more the Philippines is looking like my best bet. I've been getting tons of interest from hot young filipinas on InternationalCupid and I like that I can stay there semi-indefinitely and just keep renewing every 2 months. Most other countries you have to leave after 1-3 months if you can't get a business/work visa. But I read your thread about all the health and heat problems you were having there and it worries me. I used to live in Phoenix,AZ a couple years ago and I had to leave because the June/July heat was so intense it was giving me headaches and the AC in my apt seemed to be giving me headaches too. Think I could handle it in PH? Maybe I'd have to focus on higher altitude areas?
As for Europe, the girls weren't even sociable in most countries. They seemed very snooty and uninterested, especially when they found out I was American. (for reference: I was about mid-30's at the time, 5'8", 170lbs, maybe slightly above average looks, but not very stylish. Could that have been my problem?)
But in Lithuania, one local 19yr-old girl I met while staying at a hotel was very friendly in a platonic sorta way. After talking for a few days, she invited me to rent a flat for a great price that her family owned. So I stayed at this flat by myself for about 2 months and hung out with her and several of her friends about a dozen times. She had a couple of very cute 18/19-yr old girlfriends and the 4 of us hung out several times, just me and these 3 young girls. It must have looked impressive but I couldn't get anywhere physically. I usually bought all the drinks, meals, and amusement park rides cuz none of them had any money and it was super-cheap there for me. They were very nice but they subtly made it clear they weren't interested in me beyond that. They talked about all the boys they liked and after a few drinks one of them said to me something like, "I bet you came here just to pick up girls and think it's easy cuz you're American, but that doesn't work here anymore." I hit on another girl when we were all a little drunk but she strongly rebuffed my advances. So it was a total strike-out for me.
>$50 for an Ebook is ridiculous and unfair.
It's one you link to on http://www.happierabroad.com/dating.htm
They sweeten the deal by offering several related ebooks when you buy it. The ad intrigued me because it seems to offer exactly the info I need. Sure it's not worth it? If so, know where I can get the same info for free/cheaper somewhere else?
Hey and welcome aboard. I would say your experience in Europe is typical if there's nothing special about you. In Western culture you are penalized for being the average guy. Also in Western Europe you can forget about age differences larger than 2-5 years, it just won't happen. Women in their 20's won't be interested in a guy in his late 30's/early 40's, unless your loaded and who wants a Gold Digger?
Lithuania like Estonia and Latvia, along with Poland, Hungry and Czech Republic were the first FSU countries to join the EU. Therefore the women are able to travel freely, but more importantly Western men are able to travel to those countries. These places where "cleaned out" back in the late 90's, early 2000's. That's not to say you can't find women there but you're going to have to look near your age.
Eastern Europe (Ukraine, Russia, Moldova, The 'Stans, etc) is still ideally a good place to go if you like White Women. 10-15 age range is tolerated and not unusual. You can get women as young as 21-23. Some will say its not ideal, but I say who knows, everybody is different you can't say all women under 25 are unreliable as wives, but those in the industry will tell you that the most popular age group is under 25. Which means women over 25 and younger than 35 are not getting nearly as much attention.
I would suggest you get some type of certifications or take a short one-two year degree program. There are low skill jobs in Europe but unless you know somebody its hard as you are competing against locals that know the language and most employers will hire them first. Unless you want to work in the tourism industry. I used to know an American that chased a Swedish girl back to Sweden. It took him about 7 months to find a job in Stockholm and the girl resented it. He ended up with a job working as a cashier for one of the Casinos downtown. He was planning to come back to America because after the relationship broke down, she left the apartment to him and moved out. His salary was just barely cutting it, so he was opting to go back home to Pasadena, CA.
Depending where you end up living, most countries are looking for high skill labor; Engineers, Chemist, Programmers, IT, etc. I don't know what your skill set is but I'm a DJ and I could likely start doing mobiles and clubs in Europe and network from there. Should be even easier in English speaking countries like the UK. But instead of depending on that, I'm opting for IT certifications up to MSCE.
It doesn't take long if you're familiar with computers, about a year from start to finish.
My plan is a bit different. I'm not happy with America either, though living in California is a bit more tolerable. I plan to find a girl and get married by 2012 (I hope anyway). We'll be coming back to the States for awhile and then maybe go back to Europe when we start to have children.
Anybody can be taken for a ride. Its all to easy to blame the women and not yourself of not paying attention to the signs. I wouldn't worry about it, just don't waste your time sending emails to women you have no intention of visiting.
These suggestions are based on my experience in Europe the only difference is I didn't really venture into social areas like nightclubs while in Europe. That doesn't mean I didn't go out now. The women I visited I contacted ahead of time on various web sites, including Lucky Lovers. So I was all setup, I didn't go in cold. However once those things didn't work out, I was in lurch. From there I tried to strike up various conversations. Most of the time it worked. I didn't look for really young women either, mostly women that looked mid to late 20's, maybe early 30's.
Hope that helps.
@DJ Four Money,
This is the most profound post that I have ever read by you. I'm glad that for a deejay that you have stellar intelligence. Keep fighting the good fight. Chao.
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - [email protected] (2013)
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I think Philippines would be your best bet if you could deal with the heat, but as you say, you can't.
Maybe someplace high in the Andes in South America might be good for you? Spanish is probably the easiest foreign language to learn.
Also, try looking at Kazakhstan objectively and not relying on any stereotypes. I think Kazakhstan is doing quite well now and isn't as dangerous as the other 'stans. I don't know what qualifications are needed to teach English there. If they will accept just a TEFL certificate without a degree, then get your TEFL certificate and go for it!
In Azerbaijan, there is a culture of arranged marriages, which may or may not suit you. You never know until you look into things further. Georgia, Armenia, check 'em all out!
BTW, you should tell us what type of woman you find attractive? Just white? Asian? Do you like any type of black women? If you like Asians, China might be a possibility for you. I don't think they're too demanding about qualifications and their government is getting richer and richer.
I haven't said anything else profound????
The Philippines is definitely the best for you. You can live there without knowing the language and as an American without any acculturation, you are immediately accepted and can function well. Ukraine and other such countries do not speak English and you can get by as a tourist performing tourist activities with paid guides and front desk clerks at hotels and banks but it will be tougher to fit in if you do not speak the local language and know the local ways.
There are many jobs for native speakers of English teaching ESL. You can try that.
Your main problem won't be getting a good woman, it will be making a living. The best way is to make a living online so think about what you can do.
And my first advice is this:
Please throw away the idea that those people around the world are dying to come to the US and get the Green Card. Most would rather have you live there.
There are some and these specifically target American men but they are few and easy to spot.
Most women want a good guy to love them and to provide for them. Many American guys bristle at the thought-' oh, they just want a meal ticket'- no, not a meal ticket- they want a man to take a full role of husband and that includes providing for the family.
About age, in the Philippines a man's age does not matter. You can be 62 and marry an 18 year old girl. Same in Thailand. The local culture is like that.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
I find it interesting you say some American Men bristle at the idea of a woman wanting a man to full the role of husband including being the bread winner. I find that to be the very case among some members of RU Adventures. One of the members posted a picture of a very attractive 19 year old woman who expressed that she wanted to be a home makers and raise the children. She had no interest in a career. For many American men that throws up all sorts of Red Flags about Green Cards and a young, sexy Russia wife all alone at home without YOU there. Most men automatically think these women can't be trusted at home alone in America with so many desperate Men out there.
Well I think that's nonsense, of course there some women that want that, that's what makes them feminine, they don't wanna be like Men like so many women here who look at being a home maker as slavery of some sort.
I said, at least she was up front and honest... She's not on Elena's models anymore, I'm assuming somebody snapped her up without those concerns.
Being a breadwinner is an honor. And it is good for a woman if the man is honorable. For a million years women stayed home and took care of the kids and men would go and make a living. Therefore, kids would be growing up mentally sound, the family would be strong. Now, look at what we've got!
One of the main reasons ( not discounting the actual prevalence of gold diggers) why American and other Anglos fail is their total inability to comprehend other cultures through those countries' eyes, and foreign ways or show any kind of respect/consideration for those. I have, for one, yet to see an Anglo man anywhere on an airplane with a book about the culture of the country he is going to. And do not even start me on the language ability of the willingness to learn a foreign language.
So. mainly, when they go to a place like Russia to find Russian women, they just want basically another Anglo girl who just happens to have a cute accent and who would be just another American ( Oz, UK wife) without the hang ups and arrogance, fat, ugliness, immorality of the girls at home. And who would be beautiful to boot.
As intelligent as an Anglo man can be on his home turf, he is totally clueless of how things are done in other countries and is not even interested.
Imagine if roles were reversed and someone would come to the USA looking for an American wife, say in the 1930ies. No English, no understanding of American ways, no respect for them. I would imagine the reactions of the local people- "Get the f*** out! Go home! This is America! You don't like it, go back, etc.."
Why would it be different if one went to another nations' home? But no, to them the rest of the world is America- wanna-be ( or an extension of the British Commonwealth) and it is the Anglo way or the highway. Then, when the locals do not agree, they blame the locals. Bad luck and bad people aside, there has not been many Anglo men who had gone to Russia, learned the culture and the language and courted the local girls the Russian way and failed to get satisfactory results.
The Russian TV loves showing yet another Anglo guy who went to Russia, took language courses for three months or more, then studied about the culture and the ways of the land and then humbly approached everyone as an equal. The way it should be done.
The ones who went to Ukraine and learned Ukrainian are even fewer if any. There was one Korean girl that did and she was a hostess in Kiev, well accepted and admired by some. That is about it.
A greenhorn who does not speak the language, does not know the local ways is a magnet for scammers and gold diggers. Or opportunists who want green cards.
He can't court girls the normal way, the way local men do, and often he is under the influence of Hollywood propaganda- they all want to go to the US - they all want to go to Britain and look at me, here I am.
What else are you good for? Except to be used by bad people.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
"Please throw away the idea that those people around the world are dying to come to the US and get the Green Card. Most would rather have you live there. "
So true. I live in China in a poor small city. I earn 5X what the locals make and I am loaded asset wise.
None of this matters, really. The girls want you to speak Chinese and they want to know that you are not going to leave, and only one or two - usually my translators - have ever mentioned wanting to go to the USA, and that is only to visit for a few weeks.
'I want to see Hollywood and New York City!'
I think in small cities you skip the gold diggers completely, and then you must court them just like a normal guy would.
Wow Ladislav! This is an amazing post, SO SO SO TRUE, especially that part about gold-diggers! American men come to another country and think they own everything around just because he is an American. Well, that's just retarded! Of course, guys like that get a lot of scams going their way. I mean, without any knowledge, how do they even know it's a scam? They have no idea where they are or what is going on.
Russian (Ukrainian) girls generally LOVE romance, hugging, kissing, walking holding hands, you open a door for them, you helping them to carry bags, giving them a hand to climb high ground etc. In Ukraine, it is normal and socially accepted to be involved in people's lives that you never met. On a regular day, you may sit down next to a hot girl on a bus (or maxi-taxi marshrutka) and just ask her if she needs help carrying groceries (or whatever). You can just talk about her clothes, ask her about her day etc. It is so easy, natural and common. Women would usually appreciate that some stranger is taking interest in her life.
Another thing - going to live in a foreign country is another good decision. IBM has a huge office in Moscow and smaller one in Kiev. There are tons of other companies as well: Ford, Toyota, GM - all have factories in Russia. When you start living in Russia, learning the language, understanding the culture, the people, the traditions etc - that will be an ultimate help in getting a good girl next to you (or getting many to have fun with - it's your choice).
However, the biggest mistake in my opinion, is to bring her to the USA. Really, what are you accomplishing by that? Child care is expensive and shitty in the US, schools are complete crap, university education is expensive as hell, medical coverage is just over the edge expensive and poor quality, food is highly processed and filled with chemicals and hormones, not to mention USA has the HIGHEST GMO content foods out of the whole world.
Best thing to do? There are plenty of Ukrainian girls that actually HAVE money or at least their parents purchase an apartment for them. The only problem those girls have is finding a decent guy, who is you! That way you have a place to live and the rest is enjoying life together. Now of course if you are 50 years old it could be tough to find 20 year old Ukrainian girl to marry you and invite you to live with her, but there are PLENTY of Ukrainian girls in their 30's who will go for you, and they will look amazing etc. Your children will get very decent school education and child care is usually provided by family members for FREE in Ukraine (like grandmother would watch kids while you are at work etc).
There are plenty of things to think about. There are many ways to approach the situation. One thing for sure - you can always come back to the USA if you decide to.
1. Getting a degree in the US is insanely expensive (I ain't got the cash) and even if I could afford it, I don't want to hang out in the US for 2 more years. I want to get the f out ASAP. Well, I noticed that a lot of girls from these poor countries DO have college degrees, so I'm assuming education is much cheaper there. Anyone know if an American can get their Bachelor's in a foreign country? Like the Philippines? Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper if you could? And would it be worth the same?
2. Funny you're a DJ. So maybe you can answer this: I used to be both a college radio and a nightclub DJ for 4 years back in the 90's and I have a ton of musical knowledge, both past and current music. I've often wondered if I could put that experience to use in a foreign land. For example, if a lot of people in the Philippines like American music and culture, wouldn't they want to have an actual American to DJ in their clubs? And if so, would it be legal for them to hire an American with a tourist visa and/or would the club owner be able/willing to get you a work permit/visa?
And if not the Philippines, do you know any other countries where this would work?
Skin color doesn't matter to me. White, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, I like 'em all. And there are plenty of black American women that I find very attractive but I've noticed that the African black women who are messaging me at IntCupid are almost all very unattractive. It's weird. Most of the Asian and white girls on there are 7's, 8's, and 9's. But the Africans are 2's and 3's. No African Halle Barry's on IntCupid for some reason. Are there no hot black girls in Africa? Anyone have an experience down there to share?
As someone w/o a college degree, I don't think I want to bother with TEFL (except maybe online). I read the TEFL forums last year and found that restrictions are much more in force now and competition is much higher (due to the economic crisis) and in those few countries that will hire a college-less teacher, your lack of a degree means you will make much less and be treated like shit (particularly in China). If I could just take a TEFL/CELTA course and then get a good legal job somewhere like Prague or Bangkok I would have done it yesterday. But that just isn't possible anymore.
As for S.America, most of what I'm reading here and elsewhere seems to suggest that the girls down there are either
a) kinda ugly/homely/fat (Peru, Ecuador, Chile, Guatemala) or
b) getting more and more westernized i.e.-stuck-up and inapproachable, particularly to older men (Argentina, Brazil, Costa Rica, Peru cities, etc)
So unless someone can tell me where in Latin America a and b aren't true, then I should probably keep my focus on SE Asia and the poorest Eastern European countries. I ain't gettin' any younger or better looking, and I especially ain't gettin' any richer.
I've never thought of places like Armenia, Georgia, or Kazakhstan before. You never really see anything about them on forums like this and I'm assuming there's a reason for that. Have you been to them and if so what was your experience like? If not, do you know where there is more expat info & advice for those countries?
okay so maybe...japan. It was really easy getting actual dates there in japan. White guys and black guys even hispanic guys. very easy. they like foreign. so definitely check out japan. I am telling you from my experience.
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