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The US government should help us leave

Discuss international visas, immigration and citizenship issues.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

The US government should help us leave

Postby QuestionMark » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:59 am

America: love it or leave it. So many dumb patriotic american sheep say this everytime someone speaks the truth about how shitty this country really is. For me, I know I'd absolutely love to leave but it's nearly impossible to actually STAY OUT and legally immigrate in another country. They say it out of anger to you just to get you to shut up, but the thing is most of us are not remaining here or coming back from overseas by choice. We do it because it's nearly impossible to legally immigrate somewhere else and STAY OUT. Leaving is quite easy. Anyone with a passport, a plane ticket and enough money to travel can leave. But emigrating and staying gone is another thing.

Most other first world nations offer their citizens some option to emigrate abroad. It's usually a reciprocal agreement between countries. Australian and New Zealand citizens have a free movement agreement. Of course the European Union offers free movement to their citizens. I think most regions have some free movement in terms of immigration with another country. But of course the good ol' united shithole of america does not. People say "you're free to leave, we don't hold people here and force them to stay". But actually, they are. In a very indirect way, but they are. The u.s. govt could and should offer unhappy, discontent americans an alternative to live in other first and second world nations by forming reciprocal immigration agreements with other nations similar to what the EU has.

Funny, corporations have free movement worldwide, but not people. Corporations have more freedom than individuals.
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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby Jester » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:55 pm

You make some good points.

You're right, Brits and crypto-Brits do have more options in their old empire.

For the rest of us non-Brit humans, migration for people is generally tied to having a job offer, and that generally has to be doing something the locals can't do.

Also, there are other threads on it, but to repeat briefly here, Mexico, Philippines, Paraguay and Cambodia are pretty open to everyone who can make their own money online.

Also I believe that UK and Ireland are also open to Americans who can support themselves online (leave twice a year like Mexico).

Also I think you can get into the EU by renting in Malta, that may be about to change.
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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby Ghost » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:58 am

That would never happen. Why would the slave owners want to help their slaves leave?

Anyway, I also hate it when someone says, "love it or leave it." To that I usually say two things:

1. I shouldn't have to leave. I'm advocating what this country originally stood for. You should be the one who has to leave.

2. But I left anyway.
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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby Teal Lantern » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:57 am

QuestionMark wrote: People say "you're free to leave, we don't hold people here and force them to stay". But actually, they are. In a very indirect way, but they are. The u.s. govt could and should offer unhappy, discontent americans an alternative to live in other first and second world nations by forming reciprocal immigration agreements with other nations similar to what the EU has.

I recall a very different sentiment when Saverin turned in his passport.
не поглеждай назад. 8)

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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby Jester » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:12 am

Teal Lantern wrote:
I recall a very different sentiment when Saverin turned in his passport.



Did you see the movie "The Lost City" by Andy Garcia?

There is a scene where people are indeed "free to leave" Cuba, but even his wristwatch is confiscated by the TSA goons in Havana.

IMDB
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0343996/

Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpICtcvRnNw
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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby QuestionMark » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:34 am

Ghost wrote:That would never happen. Why would the slave owners want to help their slaves leave?

Anyway, I also hate it when someone says, "love it or leave it."


I know right. That's how it feels here too.
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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby momopi » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:45 am

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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby QuestionMark » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:23 am

momopi wrote:Where America comes up short:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_holiday_visa


I've actually done 3 of these. I did the one for New Zealand when it first became available to americans back in 2004. They just got one for Ireland recently. But americans still don't have as many as citizens of more privileged countries.
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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby momopi » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:33 am

QuestionMark wrote:
momopi wrote:Where America comes up short:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_holiday_visa


I've actually done 3 of these. I did the one for New Zealand when it first became available to americans back in 2004. They just got one for Ireland recently. But americans still don't have as many as citizens of more privileged countries.


I think the folks here would be very interested to hear your experience and get more info on working holiday options for Americans.

It'd actually keep to the theme of the site, unlike all the off-topic posts.
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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby QuestionMark » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:59 am

momopi wrote:I think the folks here would be very interested to hear your experience and get more info on working holiday options for Americans.

It'd actually keep to the theme of the site, unlike all the off-topic posts.


These visas are intended for young adults (18-30 or 35) who are going on working holiday (i.e. the backpacker crowd). Some of you on this forum are a little bit older, but aside from that, it is very easy to get these visas, and a really easy way to go live and work abroad temporarily. Of course the downside is that more than likely it's not gonna lead to you staying in those countries permanently (which is why I did them and what I was hoping for).

So there's currently 4 countries offering working holiday visas to americans:

New Zealand: Two different programs. You can do both, one after another and go to New Zealand twice-2 years.(I did this one twice)
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/workingholiday/unitedstatesofamericaworkingholidayscheme.htm
http://www.bunac.org/usa/worknewzealand (This one's more expensive, but the age limit for this one's 35)

Canada: (This one you must be a current college student or recent graduate) http://www.swap.ca/in_eng/us_index.aspx

Ireland: (I didn't do this one as it's new) http://www.bunac.org/usa/work-abroad/work-in-ireland

Australia: http://www.immi.gov.au/Visas/Pages/462.aspx

I went to New Zealand the first time for almost a year and worked a few different jobs there. One job I got to drive around Auckland everyday and even down to Wellington and Christchurch. The company paid for it and they flew me back to Auckland. It's fairly easy to find work in New Zealand, even as a foreigner. I made decent money there. Enuff to go to the brothels regularly. There are tons of brothels there since p4p is legal in New Zealand.

After that I went to Australia. At the time, Australia only offered the 4 month work visa to americans, but now it's one year. In Australia, I had fun, but also had a harder time with money and finding jobs there. Sydney and Brisbane are both fun and beautiful, but hard to find jobs if you're not Ozzie. When I was there, other foreigners who were there also had trouble finding good jobs. I also heard reports of jobs ripping off foreign workers, paying them less wages than they earned.

Sometime after returning to the states, I learned about that second New Zealand working visa I posted above that would let me return. I returned almost immediately.

A few years later after starting college, I planned to return to Canada on that working visa I posted. I was thinking it would be easy to find work in Toronto with the visa. It was not. Ontario had a high unemployment rate. Even Canadian residents/citizens can't find good jobs. Having the legal right to work in a country is one thing. But that doesn't guarantee a good job. And you need that to live. But Canada does have good plentiful escort agencies and parlors.

New Zealand was the best out of all these. I had the best jobs there, the most stability, the most/best friends, and best p4p experiences. From what I understand, if you get a job there that likes you, you may can get an extended work permit (6 months), but that's about it. None of these will lead you to staying permanently unless you're rich, highly skilled, get married, have family there, you know the usual nonsense every country requires.

The Canadian work visa is probably good too, just don't go work in Ontario. I heard Alberta is best for jobs. Last year, people from Eastern Canada were migrating west for jobs.

Personally, I don't recommend Australia (particularly for people of color). People are the same everywhere, but I do think Australia is racist and I think that had something to do with my experience there, and why I somehow had a better time in New Zealand when most people told me for them it was the other way around. But if you're curious about OZ, then good luck.
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Re: The u.s. govt should help us leave

Postby momopi » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:59 am

I used to fly to Canada for work, my clients included Auckland Grainger, CN Rail, Suncor, Nexen, etc.

People from across Canada go to Ft Mac (Alberta) for jobs, but very few stay. For Ontario, I recall jobs avail at North Bay and beyond. But not as fun out there unless if you enjoy ice fishing and snow sports.

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