Perhaps a similar thing could be accurately said about a lot of whites in Thailand.Northamericanguy wrote:
And it's unfortunate really because half the time black people bring the negative attention onto themselves.
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I really don't think a guys looks have much to do with anything IF you are dating abroad. IMHO, for many guys overseas, they don't do a very good job leveraging. Remember that a man's currency is his income and a woman's currency is her looks. So if you are an expat in any country and your income is 10x the amount that the average guy makes in that country then you have A LOT of bargaining chips at your disposal.
Personally I love beautiful women. I've dated them all my life. Biggest problem for me is when I was back in the market after getting divorced in my early 40s, finding them here in Seattle was next to impossible. So I looked overseas. I only focus on 8s or 9s that are sweet nice smart girls. I avoid solid 10s because they are too much of a headache.
But my way is not for everybody. Many guys are very comfortable getting the 5, 6 or 7 that treats them like gold and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you are happy. The important thing is that guys that date overseas SHOULD have their pick of the litter!!!!!!
Yes, but also, the environment is a variable. In the Philippines a loud and happy white guy is an entertainment and fun to be around. No one will hate an eggregious affable noisy white guy. Thais will, though. Even if he is quiet, the scorn will be there.
There are reasons that go deep back in history- in the Philippines they teach that Americans ( read" whites) are liberators and helpers and saviours and protectors. Plus they are Christians with long and deep friendship with Filipinos. A brotherly nation.
Think of Russians in Greece. Greeks love them, loud or not. All Orthodox countries like them. Russians are Orthodox brothers.
Many Chinese in Thailand are loud and rude but Thais do not despise them as they do the whites. They do not despise the Japanese.
The whites are of an alien race. No connection whatsoever. No common war fought on one side, no similar religion, no similar racial ties. Just the teachings that the farangs wanted to colonize their country and destroy the culture. A guest to watch out for.
The Thais are Pan- Asianist/Pan Orientalists and see themselves as a bulwark against Western colonization. They allowed many Asian people settle, but not whites. This had gone on for hundreds of years. This is why you have deep looks of suspicion in their eyes. The mouths are smiling, the eyes are drilling you, the inside wants to bark- farang! farang! the way a vicious dog wants to attack an intruder.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Well then, it does seem odd that according to much of the wisdom from this very forum, the vast majority of middle class and above Filipinas want nothing to do with white guys. And cruise the expat PI forums and you get a sense that most Filipinos (males) from all classes to not generally like white guys either.
While you can argue why in theory we should be so much more popular in PI than Thailand, don't you think the reality is that 99% of this 'popularity' is money/need based or phony? As a white guy, you are allowed to date poor girls as long as you pay directly them or support them and/or their families. See how far you get with wealthier girls who don't need your money. Sure there are some exceptions. But this is overwhelming pattern.
Since PI is significantly poorer than Thailand, the money dynamic may give you more traction there than in Thailand too. If you remove the material factor, you being a foreigner in PI is probably no better than being one in Thailand or anywhere else. In fact, I would argue that casual no-strings attached type relationships are easier to come by, for presentable westerners, in Thailand than PI.
I managed to screw up the quotes so I'll improvise. From Rock: Well then, it does seem odd that according to much of the wisdom from this very forum, the vast majority of middle class and above Filipinas want nothing to do with white guys. And cruise the expat PI forums and you get a sense that most Filipinos (males) from all classes to not generally like white guys either.
Ah! I disagree with your comments about middle class filipinas! My definition of middle class filipinas are those with good jobs. My wife had a good job after graduating from college but was still only making $300 per month. Sure many get married to other middle class filipino guys and they eek out a comfortable life on $500-$600 pisos per month however, many of these girls will still do a back flip to meet a guy with $1000 per month. While it may be true that middle class filipino men don't like white guys (I've experienced the cold shoulder first hand), enough filipino women really do dig white guys and the extra money most of them have is a bonus.
I still say the hunting in this class is VERY good and if done properly it's like shooting fish in a barrell!!!!! But you'll have to look the part to attract them so running around in shorts, old tshirt and flip flops ain't gonna cut it. Is it a tad artifical? Absolutely! But it's much easier to pull middle class hotties there then in the States.
But it takes more effort and this is the reason why many expats SETTLE for the inferior product.... Any lazy hack can get a woman in Phils. Up to you to determine the quality.
OK, so the US$300 a month middle class girls might be happy to date a westerner pulling US$1,000 a month over a Filipino making a fraction of that with little prospect for future raises. So what do you think would happen if the westerner was getting paid just like the Filipino in this example? Don't you agree that his most of his popularity with the the local girls would disappear? Like I said, it boils down to money at the end of the day.
The historical contrasts Lad mentions as a rational for why white guys should be loved in PI and hated in Thailand may sound convincing. But I highly doubt reality is so cut-and-dried simple when you compare actual expat experiences in the two. Lad feels loved in PI. But he is generous with the girls too. When the money runs-out, so do the they. What does that have to do with genuine racial preference? Do you think they would treat him worse if he was Korean?
And I'm pretty sure he dates only poor girls from rural backgrounds in PI, the rough equivalent of Issan farm girls in Thailand who also often pair-up a with westerners. So what happens when you compare middle class or above native Bangkok girls to native Makati girls? In both cases, I'm pretty sure the westerner is up against a much bigger dating challenge. Nevertheless, I do believe there is a decent sized sub-set of girls from the Bangkok side who will date or fool around with presentable westerners, even those with low teacher salaries. Assuming I'm right here, can the same thing be said for their Makati counterparts? If not, why? Presumably, it should be much easier for us with them since their bias towards westerners is positive while the Thai one is super-negative according to Lad.
Rockâ€¦ great reply, observations and questions. You are absolutely right about it all boiling down to money. Wealth is the expats ultimate trump card and it will keep him chin deep in Filipinas. So if you remove money from the equation will the subset of middle class girls still be sizable? Letâ€™s say you are an ESL teacher in Manila making $500 barely scraping bye. Never really thought about this but it is a great question.
In Phils, without money in your back pocket, your remaining tools will be 1) looks and 2) uniqueness 3) intelligence and 4) charm and 5) your degree of American-ness and 6) your degree of white skin (white skin is worshipped BUT I know several AA males that clean up in Phils). The more you have, the better your odds. Now that Iâ€™m married to a Filipina, we watch a lot of Filipino tv. If you look closely the vast majority of tv stars are of mixed blood so Iâ€™m convinced that if you have the right look that subset of girls (spanning ALL social levels) is sizable. Plus Filipinos tend to worship everything American so unlike Thailand there is a built in level of acceptance for the expat. Last but not least there still seems to be SOOOO many more single available women in Phils (high gay population?) coupled with the high population density, I think even without money an average American expat could pull middle class girls. But the less 1-6 you possess, the harder the journey becomes.
I also think a less than wealthy guy can pull in Thailand but there is a lot of disdain for western guys so youâ€™ll have to find the subset of Thai women who dig western men. Iâ€™m convinced they exist but itâ€™s going to be much more difficult than pulling in Philippines.
I have dated many girls across all classes since I generally do not discriminate and am not a class snob. The thing is it is not easy to carry on an intelligent conversation with someone who is not of the same calibre, but again not always. I have dated nurses and been married to a Filipina teacher from AC. Also, many students who were in college studying whatnot, and then a girl from a family of lawyers and preachers etc. Mostly urban girls.
Filipinos are Christians, English speaking and they do not have a strong national culture. They are just different ethnic groups with little cohesion. And the concept of race is weak. People here have been referring to me behind my back as " That Tagalog guy" or "that Visayan guy" meaning it. No inflated bloated national pride because there is really no ethnic nation to speak of.
As far as courting the local girls, well, it is a long drawn process. Especially if you want to do things the local way. Most are virgins. Many love Western guys but in my case I do not get treated as one too much because I talk to them in Tagalog so they do not know how to treat me except the way they treat Filipino guys- they expect a loooong courtship the traditional way.
No such thing in Thailand. Very nationalistic, and many are very scornful and cautious against the whitey. Even a college student generally is off limits for white guys. And going local rarely helps.
Precisely! Disdain for the farang. Big time! So many shitty comments about you in Thai every day- it is horrendous. Pure racism! Why some people even go there is beyond me.
I say, learn both languages and you will see what I mean.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!