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Jury Duty

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Postby Jester » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:20 pm

abcdavid01 wrote:The problem is I can see both sides of this. You make a good case Outwest, but I can hardly discount the opinions of such heavyweights as Lee Kuan Yew. With great power comes great responsibility, but what if I shouldn't have that power in the first place? Wouldn't my responsibility be to relinquish my power? I may be something of an exception as I am reasonably intelligent and educated for my age, but a legal and political system or even a personal life philosophy can't be based on exceptions.


You can help the world give birth to justice by using all present means on behalf of justice.
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Postby Jester » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:24 pm

OutWest wrote:
If you do not take care of a system of juries, you many find yourself eventually without that option where your guilt or innocence
has been decided beforehand. Juries may have their faults, but if you have ever faced an angry mob or a member of the secret police in a dictatorship, you will think juries are a really good idea.

Back in the US I was on a jury for an armed robbery case and I also was a witness in an aggravated assault case.
At first it seemed a slam dunk for convicting with the robbery case (Black thuggish young guy accused of driving the car
for the robber to escape.) as it seemed certain he was guilty. Being the decedent of some Scottish privateer types I have a certain skepticism about authority and had doubts about some of the prosecution witnesses. The victim was a black woman, and ironically, I found myself strongly arguing that the case had not been made and that a reasonable person could doubt some of the witnesses vs three black women on the jury who where "100% sure" that he was guilty as sin. I was able to convince one of those women and ultimately we ended up with a not guilty verdict. I followed that case a bit afterwards, and found out another witness came forward, and
another similar looking black man was arrested and quickly copped a plea as it turned out he had been caught on security video-tape near the scene driving that very car. The true function of juries is not to be suck-up for prosecutors, but to defend the innocent from the government and punish real criminals. (Some of whom are also part of the government. That is one very useful function of Grand Juries- to go after corrupt government officials.)

The other case as an assault on a police officer that nearly killed him in one on one combat with a thug that irrupted one morning in Arizona while I was pumping my gas at a QT in Arizona. Now I don't even like most cops, but this detective was about to be killed with his own gun. Now I came to pump my gas and get a donut, not to play gladiator, so this Mexican thug was showing complete disrespect for my tranquil morning, which really pissed me off. I was nearly 50 and this thug was maybe 30 and chunky- obviously a boxer.
From about 15 feet away I yelled "Hey b1tch!" and that got him to turn and sneer at me. Now THAT was really really disrespectful so I went through the wall of red and had him in a kill position in about 6 seconds. He had a knife as it turned out, but fortunately made no effort to use it, as I would have had to kill him and that is always a sad thing. I think he was just another lost young man and he went from the hospital to jail and is still there to this day.

It made an impression on me when I was sworn in as a witness- I felt all my ego and various opinions fade and felt respect towards those in the room. To some, it is still holy to swear to tell the truth and the whole truth, so help me God.
One man can make a difference- remember that. Contrarian is on target. Men have an obligation to stand up on juries and elsewhere.
If I was ever accused David, I would pray that I had young men like you on the jury.

Eventually the detective and his wife came to my house at the time. My young daughter let him in. His wife told my daughter, "I'm here to thank your daddy." One man can make a difference, David. You may have a good destiny in that regard.


Outwest


+1
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Postby Jester » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:27 pm

abcdavid01 wrote:The problem is I can see both sides of this....I can hardly discount the opinions of such heavyweights as Lee Kuan Yew.


Lee Kuan Yew used what power was available to him within the present system, as he worked to create the new system:

http://www.mongabay.com/history/singapo ... party.html
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Postby Ghost » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:29 am

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Postby Jester » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:52 am

Ghost wrote:I think you should.

It could be a chance to practice what is called 'Jury Nullification.' If you mention it by name or even insinuate it, you'll be thrown out of the selection process faster than the speed of light.

It is the right of the people on a jury as citizens of a free society to negate the law and grant a verdict of 'not guilty' based on their consciences. As such, it is detested and punished by scum such as judges....

...Probably wouldn't be. But if it is and you do consider yourself more reasonable and intelligent than most members of this society (and I certainly agree) then what if an innocent man's life or livelihood lies in the clutches of a corrupt system, his fate to be decided entirely by brainwashed morons?


Glad someone brought this up. Jury nullification is a major reason we have juries. But it is something that should never be mentioned in today's courts, as Ghost points out. Just vote "not guilty", if there was no crime - and if necessary find another excuse for why you acquitted the guy (an excuse such as flimsy evidence).
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Postby abcdavid01 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:35 am

Out of curiosity, how do you guys respond to verdicts like O.J. or Casey Anthony? Regrettable exceptions to a good system?
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Postby abcdavid01 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:33 am

I think I will pray on this one and see what God says.

Ah, I claim atheism and such, but I'm just ignorant. I've seen enough signs to be superstitious, nor do I think superstition bad like most rationalists. That or I'm just getting nostalgic and listening to too much Christian rock.
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Postby Teal Lantern » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:14 am

abcdavid01 wrote:Out of curiosity, how do you guys respond to verdicts like O.J. or Casey Anthony? Regrettable exceptions to a good system?


WRT the Anthony case, typical vadge-pass justice. WRT public reaction to the verdict -- I'm waiting for someone to explain why the situation is any different than going to an abortion clinic before the birth and killing the child. Once the principle is accepted, the rest is just a question of method and timing.
не поглеждай назад. 8)

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Postby abcdavid01 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 am

Oh absolutely Teal Lantern. There's a whole bunch of intellectuals who advocate infanticide. At least they're consistent.
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Postby Ghost » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:36 am

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Postby abcdavid01 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:57 am

No, it's a Federal case, it must be something.
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Postby Ghost » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:28 am

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Postby Mr S » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:35 am

I'm not in favor or against, it's a personal decision but if you decide to go but would rather not be chosen then just purchase a used copy of this book:

'Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder' By Michael Savage
Image
http://www.amazon.com/Liberalism-Is-Men ... l+disorder

Carry it around with you to the jury selection and make sure the lawyers notice what you are reading and the cover. I predict you will not be chosen.

A guy once called in to Michael Savage's show and did just this, he wasn't selected.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
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Postby Mr S » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:42 am

Winston wrote:What if you live overseas and you get a jury duty notice? What then? How do you tell them that you are overseas to prevent these notices? Who do you contact?

Don't you get paid if you are on a jury?


You only get those notices if you registered to vote. Depending on the state you registered in if you haven't voted in so long they will purge the voting register and you won't be on it anymore. Some states you're on there indefinitely until you tell them to remove you or you move to another county or state and register there.

If you are overseas and still want to remain registered in the last town/city you lived in then you tell them your overseas address and you can request them to mail you an absentee ballot. They have a special designation they put on the voting register that states you are overseas so they don't send you jury duty notifications.

I wouldn't worry about it. If you haven't heard anything from Washington state you're probably not even on the register anymore.

Jury duty is low pay for most people unless you work at a low pay service sector job, so that's why people who have higher salaries and larger work responsibilities hate going cause it makes them get behind in their work.
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