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How does firing people excessively hurt the economy?

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How does firing people excessively hurt the economy?

Postby lovelybunny » Tue May 07, 2013 1:43 pm

In the US, ALMOST every place will hire and fire people for almost ANY reason. They chiefly do it to save on costs and productin. Thus, how does this hurt the economy in the long run? Why's it not good? Is the US seeing theeffects of it now? How so?
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Postby Ghost » Tue May 07, 2013 6:22 pm

it is similar I suppose to how feminism destroys men over generations. Keep abusing and harming your workers and eventually they just get frustrated and give up. That is what happened to me. They kept harassing me even as they needed what I was offering so one day I left and never looked back.
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Postby lovelybunny » Wed May 08, 2013 12:43 am

Ghost wrote:it is similar I suppose to how feminism destroys men over generations. Keep abusing and harming your workers and eventually they just get frustrated and give up. That is what happened to me. They kept harassing me even as they needed what I was offering so one day I left and never looked back.


But won't they always find others to do the job? Will this system hurt consumers?
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Postby Ghost » Wed May 08, 2013 1:07 am

lovelybunny wrote:
Ghost wrote:it is similar I suppose to how feminism destroys men over generations. Keep abusing and harming your workers and eventually they just get frustrated and give up. That is what happened to me. They kept harassing me even as they needed what I was offering so one day I left and never looked back.


But won't they always find others to do the job? Will this system hurt consumers?


More and more are giving up. The GovCorp is destroying its taxpayer/employee base. They can find replacements now but they will eventually screw themselves over. Some even make bad decisions already. My last job fired people at whims frequently and then bitched about not having enough workers. They only trained new ones during the first third of the year. They were a bunch of morons. Greed and stupidity go hand in hand. Eventually the entire economy will just consist of a bunch of broken, hopeless people who have no future. Hell, we're largely like that now. It will hurt consumers, companies, and the government. They do it anyway.
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Postby lovelybunny » Wed May 08, 2013 1:57 am

Ghost wrote:
lovelybunny wrote:
Ghost wrote:it is similar I suppose to how feminism destroys men over generations. Keep abusing and harming your workers and eventually they just get frustrated and give up. That is what happened to me. They kept harassing me even as they needed what I was offering so one day I left and never looked back.


But won't they always find others to do the job? Will this system hurt consumers?


More and more are giving up. The GovCorp is destroying its taxpayer/employee base. They can find replacements now but they will eventually screw themselves over. Some even make bad decisions already. My last job fired people at whims frequently and then bitched about not having enough workers. They only trained new ones during the first third of the year. They were a bunch of morons. Greed and stupidity go hand in hand. Eventually the entire economy will just consist of a bunch of broken, hopeless people who have no future. Hell, we're largely like that now. It will hurt consumers, companies, and the government. They do it anyway.


How is the GovCorop destroying its taxpayer base by continually firing at whims? Doesn't lying and promising great things easily recruit new workers though?
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Postby Ghost » Wed May 08, 2013 2:03 am

Are you serious? How does firing workers shrink the tax-base? I don't think it needs more explanation. Fewer people working = fewer people paying taxes. (Income taxes anyway.)
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Postby lovelybunny » Wed May 08, 2013 2:53 am

Ghost wrote:Are you serious? How does firing workers shrink the tax-base? I don't think it needs more explanation. Fewer people working = fewer people paying taxes. (Income taxes anyway.)


I got it now. But if it's so, then how come the US has lasted this long with such a bad system? How come it still has one of the greatest economies and opportunities?
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Postby Ghost » Wed May 08, 2013 3:14 am

Because it has only been a few years since the Great Recession. Rome wasn't built in a day nor was it destroyed in a day.
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Postby lovelybunny » Wed May 08, 2013 3:42 am

Ghost wrote:Because it has only been a few years since the Great Recession. Rome wasn't built in a day nor was it destroyed in a day.


When was the Great recession? How was job security BEFORE the Great Recession?
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Postby Cornfed » Wed May 08, 2013 6:36 am

The problem with treating workers as disposable and any interaction with them as purely transactional is that you lose the benefits that come from long term relationships. For example, if an employee may be fired or otherwise leave at the drop of a hat, the company has no incentive to invest in training the employee to a high standard. Over time, companies will run down the infrastructure used to train people, so that they are not able to train people even when they want to. Initially it may be possible to have employees train themselves or bring in skilled workers from elsewhere, but eventually it will be impossible to create workers above a certain skill level, so the complexity of the technology that can be maintained in society as a whole will inevitably decline.

Similarly, employees have no reason to feel any solidarity with their employers or do anything that doesn't produce an immediate financial reward. In the past men would see their work relationships in the same way as they would see their family relationships, and would take pride in doing their best, whether that brought a monetary reward or not. If their best was better than other employees on the same pay scale, this would often be a source of self esteem, instead of making them feel like victims. They would actually bring some positive human thought and intent to the party, rather than just going through the motions.

Also, since the circumstances of workers can radically change from day to day, there is no incentive for them to make positive long term plans in their personal lives that are necessary to sustain the environment in which business can flourish. There is no reason for them to plan on raising a family, building a house, putting down roots in their community etc. if these things could be rendered undesirable or impossible overnight.

Basically the modern West is being run as if it were going out of business in about 5 years time. Total systemic collapse is inevitable, and that seems to be the idea.
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Postby lovelybunny » Wed May 08, 2013 5:27 pm

Cornfed wrote:The problem with treating workers as disposable and any interaction with them as purely transactional is that you lose the benefits that come from long term relationships. For example, if an employee may be fired or otherwise leave at the drop of a hat, the company has no incentive to invest in training the employee to a high standard. Over time, companies will run down the infrastructure used to train people, so that they are not able to train people even when they want to. Initially it may be possible to have employees train themselves or bring in skilled workers from elsewhere, but eventually it will be impossible to create workers above a certain skill level, so the complexity of the technology that can be maintained in society as a whole will inevitably decline.

Similarly, employees have no reason to feel any solidarity with their employers or do anything that doesn't produce an immediate financial reward. In the past men would see their work relationships in the same way as they would see their family relationships, and would take pride in doing their best, whether that brought a monetary reward or not. If their best was better than other employees on the same pay scale, this would often be a source of self esteem, instead of making them feel like victims. They would actually bring some positive human thought and intent to the party, rather than just going through the motions.

Also, since the circumstances of workers can radically change from day to day, there is no incentive for them to make positive long term plans in their personal lives that are necessary to sustain the environment in which business can flourish. There is no reason for them to plan on raising a family, building a house, putting down roots in their community etc. if these things could be rendered undesirable or impossible overnight.

Basically the modern West is being run as if it were going out of business in about 5 years time. Total systemic collapse is inevitable, and that seems to be the idea.








Then how come the US hasn't collapsed yet with this system?
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Postby Ghost » Wed May 08, 2013 5:29 pm

Good points Cornfed. My Grandfather was loyal to his company and it was loyal to him. There is a complete lack of trust or loyalty in this society and most people don't even think about it. And yet without things degrade and crumble. Of course, companies nowadays expect loyalty and integrity but offer none in return. And when they don't get loyalty from employees they bitch about it as if they can't figure it out. (And as stupid as most bosses are...they probably can't.)

Bunny,

The Great Recession is a name sometimes used for the financial crisis in 2007/2008, when Obama legislated a "bailout." Job security before it was decent enough I think. Things were already in deleterious decline, so it was no paradise, but there were jobs at least. It was not so universally an employer's market.
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Postby lovelybunny » Wed May 08, 2013 5:32 pm

Ghost wrote:Good points Cornfed. My Grandfather was loyal to his company and it was loyal to him. There is a complete lack of trust or loyalty in this society and most people don't even think about it. And yet without things degrade and crumble. Of course, companies nowadays expect loyalty and integrity but offer none in return. And when they don't get loyalty from employees they bitch about it as if they can't figure it out. (And as stupid as most bosses are...they probably can't.)

Bunny,

The Great Recession is a name sometimes used for the financial crisis in 2007/2008, when Obama legislated a "bailout." Job security before it was decent enough I think. Things were already in deleterious decline, so it was no paradise, but there were jobs at least. It was not so universally an employer's market.


Well, I respect your opinions, but even then, job security wasn't THAT GREAT.. It''s been the American way to be this way. It's NOT like Jamaica, where if you work, the only real way to get fired is to do nothing or to fight a lot with people. Even if you're late, they just dock your pay. In the Us, it's different. But it's changing, now that America's in decline. Best to make money here then leave.
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Postby Cornfed » Wed May 08, 2013 5:35 pm

lovelybunny wrote:Then how come the US hasn't collapsed yet with this system?

It is taking a while to chew through the stored value created by previous functional societies.
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Postby Cornfed » Wed May 08, 2013 5:38 pm

lovelybunny wrote: Well, I respect your opinions, but even then, job security wasn't THAT GREAT.. It''s been the American way to be this way. It's NOT like Jamaica, where if you work, the only real way to get fired is to do nothing or to fight a lot with people. Even if you're late, they just dock your pay. In the Us, it's different.

Yes, the employment situation has been bad since around 1980. The 08 collapse merely marked the end of various methods of concealing the situation.
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