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How to Be Feminine?

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How to Be Feminine?

Postby abg98 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:53 am

How would you describe or define a feminine woman?

Note: the question is about femininity, not attractiveness. Please try to answer objectively and outside of your dating/sexual preferences.

Personally, I'm confused by this well-known truth of the manosphere that American women are unfeminine. I see men praise behaviors in foreign women that I also see many American women perform, so I'm genuinely confused about the distinction. As I said before, this isn't about your preference but what you objectively consider the essence of femininity, which should permeate various styles, personalities, and preferences. I'm a staunch believer in individuality and freedom of expression (gender and otherwise), but I also believe in adaptability and flexibility. I guess you could say I'm seeking reform haha
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Postby Yohan » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:26 am

Femininity is about how a woman takes care of herself, about her behavior, how she speaks with people even if she disagrees with them.
It is not feminine if every sentence a woman speaks contains words like f**k, ass, pisser, shit etc.

Example: Not feminine woman (the infamous Big Red)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb8vVYu0HE8

Feminine for me means, how a woman takes care of her body without considering breast enlargement or similar useless cosmetic surgery.

It's about the morality of the woman too, for example to keep a promise - to meet a person on time, or to pay back if she borrows money.

To be feminine means not to live as the typical feminist egoist who talks only about me, me and me.

Feminine means to think about what I could do for my husband and children, and not only about what my boyfriends have to do to please me etc.

In general Western women are often not acting feminine.

About foreign women, of course not all are good, but many are. Just the opposite in Western countries, not all are bad, but many are...

There are some reason for that, like biased feminist laws which are treating any male as 2nd class citizens, just useful to pay bills - a strange morality considering singe mothers using IVF as the normal way to become a 'family with children', considering abortion as a form of life style. There is also a strong tendency into alcohol and smoking... that's not feminine...
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Postby sea_dragon » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:11 am

As an example, most American women make poor wife material and are incredibly self-centered. While women with a feminine demeanor and family values make better wife material. Likewise, a man has to be a provider as is the case throughout history (fulfilling a masculine role), so that's unquestionable. A wife should be lucky that she has a roof on her head and meals to eat every day, along with seeing that children are a blessing, not a burden.
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Postby abg98 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:16 am

Thanks for the response! ^^

It seems we agree on quite a bit. I guess I'm a bit more..empathetic with others? I agree with what the woman in that video was saying, but I wouldn't have shouted someone else down. I'd feel like it, but it's just not in my nature. At the same time, that's probably what leads me to "forgive" her delivery if you will and listen to her message. In such a situation, I'd understand the anger even though I wouldn't act the same way.

Theoretically, I agree with thinking about others and that Americans (especially White ones) are too often are self-absorbed and completely inconsiderate of their fellow person. I've experienced this a lot in mainstream feminist circles where non-White women's particular struggles are either ignored as "divisive" or White-washed because there's no way it can be feminism if it'Z n0t @b0Ut UZzZz !11! No one dare shake the princesses' thrones~ lol

It's experiences like that that have led me to focus more on myself since no one else will. I naturally care about others and their well-being, but, in my experience, it's extremely hard to find others who return the favor. Ideally, everyone cares about and for everyone else so that there's no need for self-absorption, but that's obviously not the case.

This isn't to say that your statement is categorically false, just that it might have different applications in different contexts. For example, I've seen too many Nigerian women in America die from the pressures of being a "good mother" and want to avoid such a fate at all costs. As you might know, many Black women let themselves go, and I feel that it's because of a skewed perception of what self-care and self-love are. I think this is why feminist movements of color seem so self-centered since, oftentimes, "what pleases me" can be so ignored in our general communities because most of the Black feminists I know really ride, if you will, for Black men (even White men sometimes) even while maintaining their grievances (and getting crap from White feminists and their minions for it).
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Postby Ghost » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:47 am

You can start by not being a feminist. Then be nurturing. You know, if a woman can just be nurturing, she's got the idea of being feminine.
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Postby abg98 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:03 am

sea_dragon: Could you please elaborate? I get that unfeminine women aren't ideal wife material. I'd like to get a more specific explanation of how/why (i.e. the mindset, behavior, etc).

Ghost: I'm pretty sold on the feminist thing ;) but I'm naturally nurturing. I'm not sure why people think they're inherently mutually exclusive. :S

Actually..I'm pretty sure I do lol
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Postby drealm » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:37 am

To be feminine is simply to act like a female. This is no different from men being masculine.

How a person expresses their femininity or masculinity has to do with the culture they belong to.

There is no way for a woman to not be "feminine". Even if a women takes on a stereotypical corporate job, wears Hillary Clinton suits and doesn't have kids she will still think and act like a female. As an example she will still value personal connections over principles. So in a work environment she will make terrible decisions based on who her friends are. When she dresses in a suit she will still be much more sensitive to how everybody views her appearance then men can possibly care about when men dress themselves. And as the years go by she will still find some outlet for her motherly urges, like adopting a stray cat. So even if a woman tries acting like a man she will never exactly duplicate a man's behaviors, she will still act fundamentally feminine.

A good book that illustrates this is Self Made Man by Norah Vincent. In this book the female author disguised herself as a man to see what it would be like. Even when she looked like a man and intentionally acted like a man people around her still sensed that something was off about her.

So the distinction between American women and foreign women is culture not femininity. What men call "feminine" is a local variant of "feminine" behavior. A better name would be "traditional".

You don't need to reform anything to be more "feminine".
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Postby Anatol » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:05 am

Hello,

I'm going to be very succinct and terse ~ Femininity means FEMALE TRAITS. The only way this is possible is if women aren't like men. The only way this is possible is if females are home-schooled, they don't work and they don't play sports. The moment a female starts going to school and starts learning about violence and other manly things and trying to be a man, she starts becoming a man. I am originally from Spain and the most DISGUSTING thing I saw was in the schools here in U.S.A. in the mid '90s. All these females were talking about violence and guns and all sorts of things that men should be talking about, while the boys would sit down and stay mum {(shut up)}. This was highly unusual behaviour.

Now here's the key ~ The government ENCOURAGED this behaviour because the stupid American men thought they were being 'modern' and 'going into new unexplored areas.'


We all know the American man has major mental problems {(history of racism towards everyone)} but even he should have been smart enough to not go into this area. This fool is excellent at digging his children's own graves. However, the Chinese and Indian men have proven to be even MORE INCOMPETENT! They encourage women to be like men in every way now ~ and this is an affront to God. China and India state that it's good for progress but the idiots don't understand that this is MORALLY WRONG. We don't want men and women being the same ~ it is unnatural.

Hence, femininity means a woman is home-schooled, doesn't play sports and doesn't work. She waits for a marriageable age, is going to be dedicated to her husband and family solely, and her parents marry her to a suitable male {(usually at age 17 or 18)}. Males should be married at 18 or 19 maximal! This prevents p**-marital re*ations very easily as well.
Last edited by Anatol on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby abg98 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:06 am

drealm: Interesting perspective. Personally, I agree, but I also see a lot more gray. I agree that femininity and masculinity are socially defined, but I also think that most people are a mix of the two and that culture genders things that are pretty neutral.

A good example of the neutral things being gendered as per society's views would be women being read as emotional and inherently caring how others think about their appearance. Maybe it's because I'm an INTJ woman, but the former really feels like perception more than concrete reality. I understand alluding to a focus on interpersonal connections or something, but connections over principles? I love my friends, but I'm a pretty objective person. Maybe I just have a different set of objectives. I'm also pretty principled. Maybe I don't fully understand what you're saying, but I don't see how that's more feminine. Many men act illogically or just for show (i.e. with others' opinions being a significant factor).

The latter seems to be socialization. I know too many women from all over who take pride in their appearance and (more or less) couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. In America, women are primarily judged by how they look or how in line they are with conventional attractiveness. That's what qualifies them as human beings to then be taken seriously. If you just roll in clean and plainly dressed, you decrease your chances of success and just being taken seriously as a person. This is ignoring race and weight factors. There are studies showing these patterns, and, as a Black plain Jane, I've lived it. Also keep in mind that this isn't for anything related to dating, just being taken seriously.
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Postby Ghost » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:11 am

abg98 wrote:Ghost: I'm pretty sold on the feminist thing ;) but I'm naturally nurturing. I'm not sure why people think they're inherently mutually exclusive. :S


Feminism's goal (or one of its goals) was to make women act like men, and thereby attempt to displace and eventually destroy men. Therefore, feminism is against women acting feminine. Feminism and nurturing/feminine behavior are mutually exclusive.
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Postby abg98 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:58 am

Ghost: I assume you don't keep up with feminist discourse. There are feminists (usually White and upper middle class) who feel that women need to act like men to progress or be "liberated." There are also many feminists who feel that this is counterproductive and misogynistic. The feminists I identify with don't believe that women shouldn't act feminine. We actually believe the idea that feminine people shouldn't or can't be taken seriously outside of their conventional spheres is self-hating, internalized misogyny. I think this ideology is more prevalent in feminist circles of color since women of color have historically not been allowed the option of femininity.

We believe that women (or anyone else) shouldn't be restricted to feminine behavior and that feminine behavior shouldn't be confined to conventional trappings. Essentially, people should have full access to expressing their true selves as long as they aren't impeding on others' right to do the same. We shouldn't be valued based on our femininity but on our qualities as unique individuals. Femme, butch, in-between, and other are all valid choices. Homemaker (greatly underappreciated), careerwoman, working mom, and in between are all equally valid and honorable choices. Women don't exist to serve men in return for security, but they have the right to do so if they so please (and vice versa). Choosing to fulfill a conventional role isn't oppressive as long as she isn't shunning or shaming other women for not following suit. The same goes fro every other kind of woman. This is actually one of the things that younger feminists (4th wave, I guess?) have been talking about.

Tbh the Gloria Steinem generation did their thing and made some sort of progress for sure, but undoing and extracting the bs they carried over from the society in general is really annoying. They lack nuance and introspection, and it hurts that they're still leading the movement.

The mainstream (i.e. White) feminine reactions to Beyonce's work as a self-proclaimed feminist who proudly does so many traditional things is a perfect example. With her recent work, Beyonce's been embracing and taking pride in being a wife (who pleases her husband) and mother and made it a central part of her work. She's also been exuding near equal confidence and pride in her accomplishments over nearly 20 years. These two things have earned her a lot of hate (not criticism) where a woman who looked more like them would be lauded as a strong, modern woman who's confident in who she is.

TL;DR: The "woman is the new man" mantra is becoming outdated, and many feminists call it out for the self-hating misogyny it is. Feminism is dynamic and is supposed to value femininity as much as masculinity and see neither as an indication of anything other than gender expression. ((And the entirety of Gloria Steinem's Whiny White Girls Inc. can go play in traffic.))
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Postby Anatol » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:51 am

abg98 wrote:Ghost: I assume you don't keep up with feminist discourse. There are feminists (usually White and upper middle class) who feel that women need to act like men to progress or be "liberated." There are also many feminists who feel that this is counterproductive and misogynistic. The feminists I identify with don't believe that women shouldn't act feminine. We actually believe the idea that feminine people shouldn't or can't be taken seriously outside of their conventional spheres is self-hating, internalized misogyny. I think this ideology is more prevalent in feminist circles of color since women of color have historically not been allowed the option of femininity.

We believe that women (or anyone else) shouldn't be restricted to feminine behavior and that feminine behavior shouldn't be confined to conventional trappings. Essentially, people should have full access to expressing their true selves as long as they aren't impeding on others' right to do the same. We shouldn't be valued based on our femininity but on our qualities as unique individuals. Femme, butch, in-between, and other are all valid choices. Homemaker (greatly underappreciated), careerwoman, working mom, and in between are all equally valid and honorable choices. Women don't exist to serve men in return for security, but they have the right to do so if they so please (and vice versa). Choosing to fulfill a conventional role isn't oppressive as long as she isn't shunning or shaming other women for not following suit. The same goes fro every other kind of woman. This is actually one of the things that younger feminists (4th wave, I guess?) have been talking about.

Tbh the Gloria Steinem generation did their thing and made some sort of progress for sure, but undoing and extracting the bs they carried over from the society in general is really annoying. They lack nuance and introspection, and it hurts that they're still leading the movement.

The mainstream (i.e. White) feminine reactions to Beyonce's work as a self-proclaimed feminist who proudly does so many traditional things is a perfect example. With her recent work, Beyonce's been embracing and taking pride in being a wife (who pleases her husband) and mother and made it a central part of her work. She's also been exuding near equal confidence and pride in her accomplishments over nearly 20 years. These two things have earned her a lot of hate (not criticism) where a woman who looked more like them would be lauded as a strong, modern woman who's confident in who she is.

TL;DR: The "woman is the new man" mantra is becoming outdated, and many feminists call it out for the self-hating misogyny it is. Feminism is dynamic and is supposed to value femininity as much as masculinity and see neither as an indication of anything other than gender expression. ((And the entirety of Gloria Steinem's Whiny White Girls Inc. can go play in traffic.))


Hello,


[~} Firstly, are you male or female? If female, get out. Only males are allowed here.
[~} Secondly, whether you are male or female doesn't matter ~ feminism is the PUREST evil and any sign of it needs to be hunted and eradicated. If I was the ruler of the world, I would take ANYONE who supports ANY form of feminism {(supports women's education, women's sports, women's jobs and especially women having political power)} into the middle of the market-square and have him publicly shot! I would do this 500 times a day, broadcast this around the world and in 10 seconds, all this 'g***-power' nonsense will get wiped out off the face of the planet.
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Re: How to Be Feminine?

Postby Repatriate » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:41 am

abg98 wrote:How would you describe or define a feminine woman?

Note: the question is about femininity, not attractiveness. Please try to answer objectively and outside of your dating/sexual preferences.

Personally, I'm confused by this well-known truth of the manosphere that American women are unfeminine. I see men praise behaviors in foreign women that I also see many American women perform, so I'm genuinely confused about the distinction. As I said before, this isn't about your preference but what you objectively consider the essence of femininity, which should permeate various styles, personalities, and preferences. I'm a staunch believer in individuality and freedom of expression (gender and otherwise), but I also believe in adaptability and flexibility. I guess you could say I'm seeking reform haha



I'll be very blunt. You'll soon discover that your views as a feminist are wholely incompatible with this site and others in the manosphere. H.A. may possibly be the only place where you can come in and start firing off typical feminist marxist rhetoric without getting banned immediately. If it was Rooshv or somewhere else you would not stand a chance at all.

To answer your question:

American women are socially brought up to shame men. Look at the media's campaign against men through depictions of men as buffoons and the constant shaming tactics used. This is highly unattractive behavior in reality.

Most American women use double standards when it comes to social exclusion. They often all chase 20% of the men (in career and looks) and are very promiscuous when it comes to this set however they will have insane demands or exclude any man who isn't the top percent. This leads to incredible hypocrisy and double standards where American women feel that men should be accepting of all their flaws (including being morbidly obese or just plain venal) yet they will do what they want in society.

American women tend to be aggressive and snarky. In social media and elsewhere this has been redefined as being "sassy and smart" but it's not. It's annoying and obnoxious behavior. No man wants constant sarcasm wars or conflict with their mate. A little back and forth is OK but constantly jockeying for position or oneupsmanship is toxic.

American women are highly promiscuous for the most part and will sleep around well into their 30's and then expect to marry a man with money, house, and a great job who will take care of them. It's a huge double standard.

American women are not trustworthy. Family court has ensured that women always have the upper hand and alimony laws are punitive and completely unfair. This makes marrying an American woman a huge liability.

Your average American woman just has no class, morals, or integrity. All this is very unfeminine and degenerate in my mind.
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Postby abg98 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:54 am

Repatriate, I understand all of that, and maybe I should have been clearer and more concise in wording my post.

I'm asking about what you feel femininity is and what it looks like (both in appearance and behavior) on a general scale, not what it isn't. Your entire reply is what you feel it isn't.

Yes, I'm a feminist, but I'm also a quiet, intelligent, courteous, caring, and polite (<--all others' descriptions, not mine) Christian saving herself for marriage. Very little (if any) of your reply barely applies to me.
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Postby Repatriate » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:04 am

abg98 wrote:Repatriate, I understand all of that, and maybe I should have been clearer and more concise in wording my post.

I'm asking about what you feel femininity is and what it looks like (both in appearance and behavior) on a general scale, not what it isn't. Your entire reply is what you feel it isn't.

Yes, I'm a feminist, but I'm also a quiet, intelligent, courteous, caring, and polite (<--all others' descriptions, not mine) Christian saving herself for marriage. Very little (if any) of your reply barely applies to me.


The "not all women are like that" or "i'm different" comment is as common as a heap of scrap at a junkyard. From my experiences it's also false. The toxic effects of feminism and the culture is imbedded deep within your personality. Once you reach a certain comfort zone i'm sure it all comes out eventually.
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