How long can you feasibly stay in Europe on a tourist visa?

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PandaMan
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How long can you feasibly stay in Europe on a tourist visa?

Post by PandaMan »

Well, I'm being lazy, because a few Google searches could probably give me answer, but here we go:

How long could I feasibly live / stay there on a basic tourist visa?

I know for Schengen countries it's one month or three months, I can't remember. I don't think you can leave for a day and come back, either. It's three months within a year period, right?

As for Eastern European countries, I imagine it's less stringent.

I know you need a return flight.

My plan would be to live there, rent a cheap room somewhere on a month to month basis, and make a go of it for a year, possibly moving from country to country.

I don't need to get work, but I'd probably poke around looking for something, maybe they have use for someone who speaks English.
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Re: How long can you feasibly live in Europe / Eastern Europ

Post by gsjackson »

I'm just finishing up what you're contemplating doing. It's 90 days in a Schengen Zone country with a US passport, then you have to leave for 90 days before being able to come back and get another 90 days. Total allowed is 180 days in a year. It's the same in all eastern European countries that I know of, such as Ukraine, Bosnia and Serbia.

There may, however, be a way to stay in the Schengen Zone indefinitely. A couple of people discussed this on Roosh, and backed it up with statutory references, so it may be legit. Poland has a separate agreement with the U.S, that supersedes Schengen Zone arrangements. So, if you fly initially into Poland, then leave Poland for a non-Schengen country, even just for one day, and then return to Poland, you will get a new 90-day stamp. From Poland you can travel anywhere in the Schengen Zone without your passport being checked, but if they do check for some reason your Poland stamp should clear you. You can just say you're living in Poland, and visiting the other country.

I haven't tried this personally, but I did ask a passport control officer at the Warsaw airport if he was familiar with the US-Poland special arrangement, and he said he was, though it wasn't entirely clear that he interpreted it the same way I do.

I've flown into Poland twice on LOT Polish Airlines, and there's been no requirement of a return ticket. The second time I had a one-way ticket, but nobody asked either time. I've flown into Germany on a one-way ticket from the UK, and no one asked about it. I did fly to Belgium from the US on a ticket with the return for six months later, and the airline asked about it in the US, but were satisfied by my explanation that my employer intended to apply for a visa extension.

You can probably pick up private lessons teaching English, though this isn't strictly legal unless you have a self-employment visa. Getting such a visa isn't hard to do in at least two countries -- Germany and the Czech Republic -- especially if you can show you've got some money stashed away and won't be a financial burden. The other key requirement is buying health insurance up front for the length of time you want the visa to be for, but it is much less expensive than in the US. In your age group, I'm guessing the premium wouldn't come to much more than $600-800 a year, maybe less.
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Re: How long can you feasibly live in Europe / Eastern Europ

Post by PandaMan »

gsjackson wrote:I'm just finishing up what you're contemplating doing. It's 90 days in a Schengen Zone country with a US passport, then you have to leave for 90 days before being able to come back and get another 90 days. Total allowed is 180 days in a year. It's the same in all eastern European countries that I know of, such as Ukraine, Bosnia and Serbia.

There may, however, be a way to stay in the Schengen Zone indefinitely. A couple of people discussed this on Roosh, and backed it up with statutory references, so it may be legit. Poland has a separate agreement with the U.S, that supersedes Schengen Zone arrangements. So, if you fly initially into Poland, then leave Poland for a non-Schengen country, even just for one day, and then return to Poland, you will get a new 90-day stamp. From Poland you can travel anywhere in the Schengen Zone without your passport being checked, but if they do check for some reason your Poland stamp should clear you. You can just say you're living in Poland, and visiting the other country.

I haven't tried this personally, but I did ask a passport control officer at the Warsaw airport if he was familiar with the US-Poland special arrangement, and he said he was, though it wasn't entirely clear that he interpreted it the same way I do.

I've flown into Poland twice on LOT Polish Airlines, and there's been no requirement of a return ticket. The second time I had a one-way ticket, but nobody asked either time. I've flown into Germany on a one-way ticket from the UK, and no one asked about it. I did fly to Belgium from the US on a ticket with the return for six months later, and the airline asked about it in the US, but were satisfied by my explanation that my employer intended to apply for a visa extension.

You can probably pick up private lessons teaching English, though this isn't strictly legal unless you have a self-employment visa. Getting such a visa isn't hard to do in at least two countries -- Germany and the Czech Republic -- especially if you can show you've got some money stashed away and won't be a financial burden. The other key requirement is buying health insurance up front for the length of time you want the visa to be for, but it is much less expensive than in the US. In your age group, I'm guessing the premium wouldn't come to much more than $600-800 a year, maybe less.
This is very helpful. I also think there's a similar trick involving Ireland, Northern Ireland and Britain, in terms of moving around between each and managing to get away with staying there forever, though I forget the exact procedure.

I'll have over $100,000 in cash, so I imagine this will look favorable to any country. I have years of experience living super-cheap in the US so imagine those skills will come in handy there. I have online income, thankfully, though there's always that risk it could dry up (but there's risk you can lose your job, too!). I think with a year there I'd manage to find some kind of stable part-time work to ensure long-term survival in case things fell apart otherwise.

Another question: what about European banks? I heard Moldova had high interest bearing accounts for savings. Ukraine as well.
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Re: How long can you feasibly live in Europe / Eastern Europ

Post by xiongmao »

Lots of foreigners hang out in London but they normally share rooms or live in less desirable areas (or both). But if you can get a work permit there are more jobs here than anywhere else in Europe. There's effectively negative unemployment where I live.

UK banks give 1% of less on your savings but I'm averaging about 6% by taking on more risk. Moldova is money laundering central, be careful there.
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Re: How long can you feasibly live in Europe / Eastern Europ

Post by gsjackson »

Be careful in Ukraine also, obviously, as it is currently a failed state with no obvious future. I believe Contrarian Expatriate has invested in some of the high yield CD's offered by banks there, and I'm wondering how that is going now. And of course, be careful in eastern Ukraine generally, as there is still shooting going on, despite the cease-fire. Even in Kiev, the Nazis would like to start something again, so WYA.

One tip if you're going to be traveling around Europe: Take only one checked bag. Second checked bags are almost always quite expensive flying within Europe -- usually around $100. I sent a lot of stuff home, ditched the second bag, and saved around $600. And if you're traveling by train it's going to be a huge hassle lugging two bags (and a carry-on) around those cramped spaces.
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Re: How long can you feasibly live in Europe / Eastern Europe?

Post by Winston »

I have a question. Which countries are in the Schengen Zone? How can Ukraine be part of it? I thought Ukraine isnt part of the EU.

Is there a way to extend the 90 day visa? As i understand it, the UK is not in the Schengen Zone right? So when the 90 days are up you can stay in the UK for the next 90 days or even go to Russia right? Or even Egypt to see the pyramids. Then come back again for another 90 days right?

Also what if you stay only 2 or 3 weeks in the EU and then leave? Do you still have to wait another 90 days before you can come back? Or does the 90 days continue ticking even when you leave?
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Re: How long can you feasibly live in Europe / Eastern Europe?

Post by gsjackson »

Every time I've been to the UK, which isn't in the Schengen Zone, I've been given a six-month stamp. I assume that's true for all Americans.

I'm quite sure Ukraine isn't in Schengen. There's this thing called the internet that gives you a list of Schengen countries. Some EU countries, such as Romania, aren't in Schengen.

Yes -- go to Russia, UK, Ukraine, etc. for 90 days and then you can return to Schengen to begin another 90 days there.

Stay 2-3 weeks in Schengen, leave, come back any time and your remaining time in Schengen begins to toll. The rule is 90 days in any 6-month period.

Poland has a special arrangement with the U.S. Stay there 90 days, leave the Schengen, come back the next day and get a new 90-day stamp. In theory, you could stay in Schengen more or less continuously doing this. The stamp is just for Poland, but if you travel from one Schengen country to another, usually you won't go through passport control.

Edit: I see I jumped through most of these hoops four years ago. See above in the thread, and Winston, read your own thread first and you might find the answers.
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Re: How long can you feasibly live in Europe / Eastern Europe?

Post by Winston »

Here's some info I found on how to stay in Europe longer than 3 months on a Schengen visa after it expires.

https://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blog ... n-90-days/
Part 1: Staying or Moving to Europe the Easy Way

With so many visa rules, it’s easy to stay in Europe beyond 90 days as a tourist — you just need to mix up the countries you visit. The United Kingdom has its own rules that allow you to stay 180 days in a calendar year. Most non-Schengen countries such as Ukraine, Moldova, Croatia, Ireland, and some Balkan countries allow you to stay for up to 60 or 90 days. So all you need to do is spend 90 days in the Schengen Area, visit the UK, go to the Balkans, hang out in Ukraine, drink wine in Moldova, and have a pint in Ireland. If you align your schedule right, you can easily be out of the Schengen Area for 90 days and then head back into the Schengen Area.

I spent three months in Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, and England as I waited for my clock to reset and then headed back into Germany for Oktoberfest.

So if you want to travel the continent for a long time without having to go through the various visa processes described below, vary your travel by visiting non-Schengen countries. There’s plenty to see elsewhere while you wait to wait for your Schengen Visa clock to reset.
How to legally extend a Schengen visa:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/how-to ... ngen-visa/
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Re: How long can you feasibly live in Europe / Eastern Europe?

Post by Winston »

gsjackson wrote:
August 2nd, 2018, 7:19 am
Every time I've been to the UK, which isn't in the Schengen Zone, I've been given a six-month stamp. I assume that's true for all Americans.

I'm quite sure Ukraine isn't in Schengen. There's this thing called the internet that gives you a list of Schengen countries. Some EU countries, such as Romania, aren't in Schengen.

Yes -- go to Russia, UK, Ukraine, etc. for 90 days and then you can return to Schengen to begin another 90 days there.

Stay 2-3 weeks in Schengen, leave, come back any time and your remaining time in Schengen begins to toll. The rule is 90 days in any 6-month period.

Poland has a special arrangement with the U.S. Stay there 90 days, leave the Schengen, come back the next day and get a new 90-day stamp. In theory, you could stay in Schengen more or less continuously doing this. The stamp is just for Poland, but if you travel from one Schengen country to another, usually you won't go through passport control.

Edit: I see I jumped through most of these hoops four years ago. See above in the thread, and Winston, read your own thread first and you might find the answers.
Yeah it appears that Denmark and Poland are an exception and allow you to leave and come back the next day, whereas other Euro countries require you to leave for 3 months before returning. Is that right?

Check this out:

https://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blog ... n-90-days/
For U.S. citizens, France has a bilateral agreement that allows the US citizens to stay an additional 90 days beyond the Schengen limit – without a visa!! Seriously. You can spend another 90 days in France. You can enter from any Schengen country, stay 90 days in France, and then fly home. But you have to go home. You can’t go elsewhere. You have to leave Europe so you can’t use your time in France as a sneaky way to reset your Schengen clock. (Be sure to read the note below.)

Additionally, Denmark and Poland also have bilateral agreements with the United States that let citizens stay an additional 90 days in each country separate from the regular Schengen Zone visa. The Denmark rule applies the same way as the French one. You must travel directly from another Schengen country to Denmark. After your stay in Denmark, you cannot transit through other Schengen countries to get back to the US, you will have to fly directly or transit through non-Schengen zones. The Denmark additional 90-day stay is applicable for citizens of Australia, Canada, Chile, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea and the US.

If you want to visit Poland, you must enter and leave Poland via a non-Schengen country where you will be stamped again (i.e., direct flight from NYC). So you could do 90 days in the Schengen, fly to the UK, and then fly to Poland.

Now, in theory, one could say thanks to borderless travel you could get your “extra 90 days in Denmark” and then just travel around, fly out of Denmark, and no one would be the wiser. One could say that. But I’ve noticed a lot more intra-Europe passport checks in the last year in the wake of the refugee crisis and rise of right-wing governments across the continent. I got yelled at in France for not having my passport with me while on a train to see a chateau. I wouldn’t recommend it but, in theory, I guess it could be done.

Note: Poland’s rules are simply laid out in an agreement letter the US and Poland signed in 1991. (Here’s a copy of the letter from the Polish government.)

Note: The France / US rule is tricky. Multiple French consulates told me yes, this existed but couldn’t name the exact law. They just referred me to France’s general rules on immigration. A few visa services told me I was crazy. One consulate told me it was possible but only with a long-term visa. So, while we still search for the rule, I say this probably exists somewhere in the French bureaucracy. Other people verify it on the web but don’t be surprised if your French border guard doesn’t believe you. Buyer beware on this one!
I'm not sure I understand though. Can you leave Denmark or Poland and then come back and get another 90 day Schengen visa, and then after that, go to any European country you want or not? Or would you have to stay in Denmark or Poland after the extension? The above isn't that clear. Do any of you know?

@Contrarian Expatriate what do you know about this? How do you live in Europe long term? What kind of visa do you have? What type of Schengen visa do you have? How do you extend it?

Btw, are you open to meeting HA members in Europe, including me?
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Contrarian Expatriate
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Re: How long can you feasibly live in Europe / Eastern Europe?

Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

Winston wrote:
May 11th, 2019, 4:27 pm

@Contrarian Expatriate what do you know about this? How do you live in Europe long term? What kind of visa do you have? What type of Schengen visa do you have? How do you extend it?

Btw, are you open to meeting HA members in Europe, including me?
I avoid the Schengen Zone since they have that silly 90 days per every six months rule if you are visiting visa-free.

I tend to stay visa-free in Armenia, Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan with only short stints in the Schengen countries.

If you want to live in the Schengen zone, you need to apply for a 1, 3, or 5 year visa which have certain requirements. Those countries are the ones I tend to avoid anyway, so I move from non-Schengen country to country each month or so.

The trick is to select and live in a non-Schengen country and do a quick border crossing trip in a neighboring country to renew your right to be there. Usually that means crossing the border every 30, 60, or 90 days depending on the country. Some people do that for years on end.

Schengen rules prevent that by restricting your visa free visits to 90 days in any 6 month period. If wanted to live in a Schengen country, I would do my 3 months there, then 3 months in Ukraine, then 3 months again in my Schengen country.

Other than that, apply for a Schengen visa to stay longer term there.

As to the HA meet up, I would be interested so long as it does not conflict with some courses I am taking. Which country were you thinking of having it in, Ukraine?
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Re: How long can you feasibly stay in Europe on a tourist visa?

Post by Winston »

CE,
Wow thats a great system and get around. What about Romania? Thats not part of schengen?

I didnt mean a HA group meetup. I meant just meeting you one to one. Do you do that? Have you met anyone else from the forum?
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Re: How long can you feasibly stay in Europe on a tourist visa?

Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

Winston wrote:
May 13th, 2019, 6:27 pm
CE,
Wow thats a great system and get around. What about Romania? Thats not part of schengen?

I didnt mean a HA group meetup. I meant just meeting you one to one. Do you do that? Have you met anyone else from the forum?
Romania is trying hard to qualify for partial Schengen membership but right now it is not.

Yes, I have met up with one member (I prefer to keep him anon) last year and it was great. He was actually the person that informed me about Belarus’ new visa-free scheme.

I am on the move each month but yes, I am open to meeting like-minded members to exchange notes.
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