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Best countries for very short guys?

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Re: Height and Inner Game

Postby globetrotter » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:17 pm

jaymcgoff wrote:First, I shouldn't limit myself just because of my genetic misfortune. Second, a very short girl is more likely to have an issue with her own height and thus make her man's height the most important factor. Third, and most importantly, I'm far more attracted to tall girls (tall from my perspective is 5'3" to 5'5"). Above 5'5" would be too extreme.


Like so many American Men who are not 'tall' you obsess about being 'short' and excuse your life based upon this.

First thing you need to do is this:
"First, I shouldn't limit myself just because of my genetic misfortune."

Re-read that phrase. See anything amiss? 'Misfortune'.

Never think, feel, say or write that phrase again. That is your first goal. Stop thinking of your height as being 'my genetic misfortune'.

No arguments, I don't want to debate your reasons on-line - just STOP DOING IT. End of discussion.
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Postby Rock » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:43 pm

momopi wrote:Note: this study is done on dating web site "meat market". It's questionable as to how much it'd apply to society overall since most people don't use dating sites. But you can use the data for example or reference.

=================================================

http://www.asian-nation.org/docs/online ... -study.pdf

Attribute Trade-Offs

In order to obtain a better understanding of the relative magnitude of the attribute preferences
we consider the implied trade-offs between different traits. We focus on the trade-offs
between income and several other attributes.

First, we look at the trade-off between looks and income. Consider a woman evaluating
the profile of a man whose looks rating is in the nth decile (n < 10) of all looks scores among
men. We would like to know the amount of additional income this man would need to be
as “successfulâ€￾ with the woman as another man whose looks rating is in the top decile. To
that end, we calculate the income variation such that the woman’s utility index for either
man is equal. Remember that the utility index allows for preference heterogeneity through
attribute distance terms, and hence we also need to specify the income of the woman and
the “baseline manâ€￾ in the top looks decile. We assume (here and below) that the woman
has an annual income of $42,500 and that the man has an annual income of $62,500. These
are the median income levels for men and women among the dating site users in our data.

Table 5.4 shows the income tradeoffs for all looks deciles. A man in the bottom decile,
for example, needs an additional income of $186,000 (a total annual income of $248,500)
to compensate for his poor looks. The table also shows that women cannot make up for
their looks at all. The reason is that our preference estimates indicate that men’s marginal
utility from income is approximately flat between income levels of $100,000 and $200,000
and declining for income levels higher than $200,000. Hence, even for a woman in the 9th
decile of looks there is no amount of additional income that could make her as attractive
in a man’s eyes as a woman in the top decile. Of course, these results should not be taken
fully literally—functional form assumptions, distributional assumptions, and sampling error
will generally influence the precise income compensation numbers. Hence, for example, our
model will not be able to accurately predict how a man evaluates a woman with an annual
income of $2 million. However, the results strongly indicate two basic messages: preferences
for looks are quantitatively important, and there are strong gender differences in the relative
preference of looks versus income.

Table 5.5 shows the trade-offs between height and income. A man who is 5 feet 6
inches tall, for example, needs an additional $175,000 to be as desirable as a man who is
approximately 6 feet tall (the median height in our sample) and who makes $62,500 per
year.


Maybe the most striking numbers are with regard to income-ethnicity trade-offs, as
shown in Table 5.6. For equal success with a white woman, an African-American man needs
to earn $154,000 more than a white man. Hispanic men need an additional $77,000, and
Asian men need an additional $247,000 in annual income. In contrast to men, women mostly
cannot compensate for their ethnicity with a higher income.


Interesting at first glance (quickly skimmed through it and focused on results). Conclusions regarding looks and height seemed to make sense. But I was surprised at the race results, esp. in regards to blacks vs. whites. Didn't realize so many white girls on dating sites were not open to relationships with black guys but that many black girls on same sites would consider dating white guys. I bet the numbers would come out a lot differently if the study was measuring desirability for short term sexual relationships. It seems to me that black guys these days have an advantage.
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Postby adam917 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:53 am

WOW! Asian men would need to make an additional nearly QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS a year in order to compete? Are these women out of their minds or something?!

quote="Rock"]
momopi wrote:Note: this study is done on dating web site "meat market". It's questionable as to how much it'd apply to society overall since most people don't use dating sites. But you can use the data for example or reference.

=================================================

http://www.asian-nation.org/docs/online ... -study.pdf

Attribute Trade-Offs

In order to obtain a better understanding of the relative magnitude of the attribute preferences
we consider the implied trade-offs between different traits. We focus on the trade-offs
between income and several other attributes.

First, we look at the trade-off between looks and income. Consider a woman evaluating
the profile of a man whose looks rating is in the nth decile (n < 10) of all looks scores among
men. We would like to know the amount of additional income this man would need to be
as “successfulâ€￾ with the woman as another man whose looks rating is in the top decile. To
that end, we calculate the income variation such that the woman’s utility index for either
man is equal. Remember that the utility index allows for preference heterogeneity through
attribute distance terms, and hence we also need to specify the income of the woman and
the “baseline manâ€￾ in the top looks decile. We assume (here and below) that the woman
has an annual income of $42,500 and that the man has an annual income of $62,500. These
are the median income levels for men and women among the dating site users in our data.

Table 5.4 shows the income tradeoffs for all looks deciles. A man in the bottom decile,
for example, needs an additional income of $186,000 (a total annual income of $248,500)
to compensate for his poor looks. The table also shows that women cannot make up for
their looks at all. The reason is that our preference estimates indicate that men’s marginal
utility from income is approximately flat between income levels of $100,000 and $200,000
and declining for income levels higher than $200,000. Hence, even for a woman in the 9th
decile of looks there is no amount of additional income that could make her as attractive
in a man’s eyes as a woman in the top decile. Of course, these results should not be taken
fully literally—functional form assumptions, distributional assumptions, and sampling error
will generally influence the precise income compensation numbers. Hence, for example, our
model will not be able to accurately predict how a man evaluates a woman with an annual
income of $2 million. However, the results strongly indicate two basic messages: preferences
for looks are quantitatively important, and there are strong gender differences in the relative
preference of looks versus income.

Table 5.5 shows the trade-offs between height and income. A man who is 5 feet 6
inches tall, for example, needs an additional $175,000 to be as desirable as a man who is
approximately 6 feet tall (the median height in our sample) and who makes $62,500 per
year.


Maybe the most striking numbers are with regard to income-ethnicity trade-offs, as
shown in Table 5.6. For equal success with a white woman, an African-American man needs
to earn $154,000 more than a white man. Hispanic men need an additional $77,000, and
Asian men need an additional $247,000 in annual income. In contrast to men, women mostly
cannot compensate for their ethnicity with a higher income.


Interesting at first glance (quickly skimmed through it and focused on results). Conclusions regarding looks and height seemed to make sense. But I was surprised at the race results, esp. in regards to blacks vs. whites. Didn't realize so many white girls on dating sites were not open to relationships with black guys but that many black girls on same sites would consider dating white guys. I bet the numbers would come out a lot differently if the study was measuring desirability for short term sexual relationships. It seems to me that black guys these days have an advantage.[/quote]
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Re: Best country for very short guys?

Postby LarryLaffer » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:44 am

jaymcgoff wrote:Thanks for creating this website, it has been very inspirational to read about your dating success abroad. I'm a white American guy but I still feel like we have a lot in common, as we are both excluded from the dating game due to extreme prejudice here. My theory is that American girls' hatred for Asian guys is really based on short stature, not shyness or nerdiness as some American women claim in order to justify their prejudice. (I think it's all about height because I've known shy nerdy Asian guys who were tall and thus they did very well with American girls). I'm just over 5 feet tall so I'm lumped into the same undateable category, disqualified by the majority before I say a word.
Jay


Hi Jay,

I'm in a similar situation. I'm not quite as short but am older. I've read your posts and there are a few things I decided to mention:

1. Guatemala is the country with the shortest men. Among the Mayans of Guatemala, the average male height is 5 ft 2 in and the average adult woman is 4 ft 6 in.

2. In one post, you said that you wanted a taller woman so that your son(s) would have a better chance at life. Now I've done some research on this and it turns out that while genetics is a significant factor in height it is not necessarily the case that two short parents will have a short child. Sometimes, both parents are short because they have some sort of recessive gene that reduces their production of growth hormone. However, unless both parent have or carry the same recessive gene, the child will not suffer the same problem. Therefore, you might want to consider getting a genetic test done to determine the reason why you are short. The woman you are considering could also be tested. If she is short but for a different reason (some other recessive gene) than your offspring might grow up tall!

3. Also, I don't think it makes sense to try to find a tall wife. I read some statistics that showed that only an extremely small percentage of women are married to shorter men. Unfortunately, I think most women are hardwired to only like men that are taller than they are. So try to find a short woman who is short for non-genetic reasons or because of some genetic reason that is recessive and because of a recessive gene that you don't carry.

4. Even if your shortness is caused by a dominant gene, it is possible that some medical intervention could spare your offspring from being short. Some people who would otherwise have been short have been given growth hormone injections in their early adolescence and grew up taller.
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Postby max87 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:38 pm

I am on the same boat as you.
I am mexican, hence i am short. Problem is, i am shorter than the average mexican. I am around 5' 2" meanwhile the average height for a mexican is around 5'5" - 5'7".
I will have to go abroad, probably Australia. The dating aspect is one of my main concerns as well. I am a bit younger than you, 25. And unlike you, i am still a virgin. My whole adolescence was pretty much ruined because of my height. I know it is hard, and i know that there will always be people telling you that you should get your s%$t together.
What i personally always felt was that i never had a sense of being "normal" because of it. Once i grew up, i realize that i was in fact, normal, it's just that people don't see it like that.
Girls were quite cruel with me. Some of them (even though they are over 20 y.o.!) still are.
Hope you can find what you are looking for.
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Postby ExpeditionSailor » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:06 pm

I'm fairly short myself - about 5'7", and am routinely overlooked or ignored by women because of it. Funny thing is, if I were Russian and serving in a tank regiment, I'd be a giant. The reason why is that the Russians designed their tanks to be smaller have a low profile so they would be harder to see and hit on the battlefield. The low height profile of Russian tanks means they need shorter, smaller crewmen. The average Russian tank crew member is about 5'3" - 5'4".

I know that little factoid is useless and won't help me with Western women, but somehow it makes me feel a little better about my short stature.
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Postby E_Irizarry » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:10 pm

Think Different wrote:Interesting note: The Netherlands also has the densest population in Europe, as well as the tallest average people. My theory is that the country is so crowded that the only place they have to grow, is upwards!

Sorry, my little dumb joke.....

Actually that shit was funny Red Dog. LMBO! That's how NYC is: there's no more room to grow in such a dense place that it's so important to build literally 20-story buildings in NYC.
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Postby mehendicant » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:43 am

Looks like Guatemala will be Guatebuena for me. I'm 1.5 m (± a few mm). The average Maya woman in Guatemala is 1.422 m according to the Wikipedia page. Our kids will probably grow taller than both of us.

The pastor and his wife are both from Colombia. She's about my height I think, maybe a bit taller. Their daughter was born in Colombia shortly before they moved here, and she's starting to surpass her. I'm pretty sure she hasn't reached 15 yet.
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Postby Winston » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:20 am

I just did an interview on a website about heightism at http://www.supportfortheshort.org

You can listen to it at the link above. It's featured at the top.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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Postby chanta76 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:35 am

I'm Korean American and visited South Korea many many times. I'm actually only 5'7 or 5'8....more toward the medium height range in South Korea.

Nowadays the younger crowd (25 and under) are getting taller and taller...average height maybe 5'9 for males and not uncommon for them to be taller. The women are more like 5'4 on the average but you see allot of taller Korean women.

In South Korea....you have to ask yourself why are there so many plastic surgery around? Because Koreans are into lookism and yes heightism...

KOrean women unfortunately are becoming more and more superficial like American women where they have a A-Z list in what they want in a boy friend ..etc.

Does this mean it is hopeless? No..go to South Korea ...and try to experience it yourself. If you have a great style ...decent looking face and CONFIDENCE...you might do better there in the states. Why? because American women are still the number 1 superficial women on the planet.

Saying that ...since you study PUA...as I did to..and I have disagree with Winston on this one. There is reality and there is heart. What I mean is does looks count? yes. Does age count? yes. Height ? Money ? yes and yes. women look at all of that BUT if you got heart...and believe you have a unique value that you can give to a woman and make her feel that unique value...it's possible you can get a girl. Is it easy? Hell no....

That's why having heart is so important. You said before you dated attractive girls but lost them because of inner game....Who's fault is that? You...I understand we live in a world that likes to step on people..put them down...and break them.

But if you know your own worth and believe that you have unique value..like the line in Rocky.."you got to take the hits and keep going".

I still have a complex with my race and sometimes with my height and now with my age(I am 35 years old and feel too old now.)

Other people will look at me and think it's all in my head ..we all make the excuses...

Try Korea ..but at the same time don't lose hope in the states...sure it's allot harder...in USA but you have to ask yourself.....and I mean this as no offense...I seen midgets with wives..if a midget can get a girl...why can't a perfectly normal guy like you can too.

It's the same with me...I sometimes think white women don't like asian men...and feel that the only way I can get a white girl is overseas...but in reality that is hogwash. I'm just making excuses for myself....
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Postby max87 » Mon May 07, 2012 3:58 pm

BTW once i heard that in the french part of Canada people are rather short.
An uncle of mine went and he showed us photos. The tour guide who went with them was really short, like 5'0" according to my uncle and he did looked small in the photos, much more than the rest of the group where my uncle was.
Can someone confirm this?
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Postby Jester » Wed May 16, 2012 4:05 am

MrPeabody wrote:
RedDog wrote:Welcome and good question.

Stay away from the Netherlands and Estonia, since they have the tallest average people in Europe (think 5'10" and starting).

Best!


I lived in the Netherlands for several years, and the couple in the apartment next to me was a short guy with a beautiful tall girlfriend, so I wouldn't necessarily write off the Netherlands, especially if you like tall women.


I was going to say something like this as well. I know a Colombian couple where the guy is maybe 5'0" and the sexy woman is around 5'6", hourglass figure, sexy and attractive.

In this case she is a long-time monogamous mistress, and they have a teenage son together. He visits her here in California.

The guy has two other families, one in Florida and one in Colombia.
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Postby Jester » Wed May 16, 2012 4:20 am

mehendicant wrote:Looks like Guatemala will be Guatebuena for me. I'm 1.5 m (± a few mm). The average Maya woman in Guatemala is 1.422 m according to the Wikipedia page. Our kids will probably grow taller than both of us.

The pastor and his wife are both from Colombia. She's about my height I think, maybe a bit taller. Their daughter was born in Colombia shortly before they moved here, and she's starting to surpass her. I'm pretty sure she hasn't reached 15 yet.


Those Latin countries have possibilities for the OP.

Pretty short girls in Guatemala and all over. Tall girls too. Used to different size people, judge heavily on upbringing and social class, not always on Hollywood stuff.

PLUS - Latin girls know what a Jew is, and upper or middle class Latins like to talk about how they have Sephardic blood. Latin girls in Los Angeles are known to target jewish men by visiting a temple ad trying to reconnect with Jewish roots. (no pun intended :smile:).

This could be true in Philippines also - but of course it wouldn't be the case in say Cambodia or Thailand or perhaps Korea.

Btw even if Korea may not be in everyon'e judgement anyway) the ideal" country for the OP, let's pat him on the back for taking the first step out of the toxic Amerikan environment.

Btw I don't agree about changing his outfit, whatever it is. Those corkscrew curls will be a babe magnet. Probably in the near future he's going to be shaking his kosher tuchas with some bikini'd Brazilian Jews in Rio. And I think he should post a picture when he does.
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