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11 posts • Page 1 of 1
This will be my first post on this website. I'd like to start by thanking Winston for providing such a wonderful resource. Without online sources like this website, American men would be truly brainwashed into thinking American women's behavior is as good as it gets.
I'll start by describing my situation. I'm a white American male in my twenties. I've finally woken up to the US dating nightmare and feel my best solution for finding mates is to look abroad. My goals are not short-term casual dating. I desire a traditional woman for marrying and starting a family with. My only criteria for evaluating women is how well suited they are for marriage and being mothers.
There are many different factors, which contribute to the success or failure of a long term marriage. It's my suspicion that couples with more background similarity (race, ethnicity, religion, ect) will have less of a bridge to cross than couples from widely different backgrounds. This isn't to say mixed-race couples are bad, I just imagine they're harder to bridge at first. I want maximize my odds, that's why I emphasize homogeneity.
This had lead me to evaluating my own background and researching those countries abroad. As I said before I'm white. My father is Estonian and German. My mother is Mexican and Spanish. In spite of being a quarter Mexican, I do not look Hispanic. Since I don't look Hispanic, I think dating a Mexican woman is a larger gap than dating a white person. This leaves me with Germany, Spain and Estonia for seeking women with a similar background.
I imagine most of western Europe isn't much different than the US with regards to feminism. Germany and Spain are both industrialized countries and likely have modern woman's movements.
This leaves me with Estonia. Estonia is where my father was born, Tallinn to be specific. This in and of itself makes it a very desirable place to start my travels because it connect with my father's ancestry. Estonia is also a bit of an oddball, because unlike the rest of western Europe, Estonia suffered under Soviet domination. From my little research, this somewhat has delayed the emergence of feminism.
As it's been explained to me, under Soviet rule, a sort of marxist genderless society existed. As a result, Estonian women are supposedly very wary of anything called "feminist" and prefer instead to be more feminine.
So my question is, how feminist is Estonia? Do traditional Estonian women still exist? Would it be easy to find an Estonian wife as an American?
I've researched Estonia on this forum and there's not too much information on it. I imagine there's less travel to Estonia than some other more popular places such as Asia and Latin America.
Any information greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Ladislav would be able to help you here as he is originally from one of the former Soviet republics.
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)
"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)
"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
- E. Irizarry (2012)
"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)
TanBoy by DNA | Despedido, Hugo Chavez...Descansa en paz!
Ah, Estonia! One of my favourite countries. I'm planning a trip there in '11 to brush up on my Russian.
Estonian women in my experience are wonderful. Natural yet groomed, graceful, interesting fashion sense (but not tacky), good skin from all the saunas, very into nature, drink in pretty cafes at night rather than get 'wasted', etc. They also seem very mature, mentally. All the Estonian girls I've met have been very into family and children too. I can't imagine an Estonian woman being a raging feminist, they seem very comfortable and happy being women. Only downside is it's a pain to get one to crack a smile.
Also multi-lingual, most Estonians seem to be fluent in Finnish, Estonian, Russian and English at the least. A good country if you like tall blondes.
I'm not an expert by any means but I've met quite a few people from there and talked a lot about Estonia, it's culture, etc., so this is what I've got so far.
I wouldn't write off Spain/Germany straight away though. And their winters aren't quite so extreme for all the talk of feminism in Western Europe, I don't think it's anywhere as extreme as the States. I'd go check all three countries out and see what you think.
I have never been there but from what I have heard, it is not a bad place to find gf's. All guys who live there find one. Tallinn is supposed to be full of various Mediterranean male tourists every summer- Italians and Spaniards- all looking for girls. I knew one guy who is has been living there on and off and he has had several girlfriends and a kid with one.
Keep in mind that Estonia is entering the Euro zone in a couple of months. So, the main concern will be money more than anything. The dollar is not strong against the Euro.
Another thing I think that all expats need to learn is to leave the US racial terminology at the airport. Dividing people into Whites /Hispanics etc is not understood in E. Europe. You will just be seen as an American period everywhere you go. Even those Americans who proudly say : I am German, I am Irish find out that they are not when they land in Germany/Ireland. And then if they overstay, the immigration kicks these "Irish" and "German" persons out of Ireland and Germany. Damn Yanks! Go home!
But that is another topic.
My humble advice would be to study up more on Estonia, the history/culture, maybe get some language down and get ready a bit. I am saying that because on several occasions I would go to foreign places without knowing anything about them and the culture shock would be severe plus the locals did not appreciate it, as well.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
I doubt you will be able to find very much info on Estonia or any other non-Balkan, non-Ukrainian, non-Russki country. Simply too far off the beaten track, and the few who have been there were probably still too locked in the matrix at the time to make any keen observations.
You will have to be the first to report back!
Well, how traditional do you want 'em? Lol.
This is a picture of Seto women. The Setos are a small ethnic group in Estonia who stick to a very traditional way of life. Their territory is called Setomaa. I've read about some Estonian hippie types moving out to the countryside to live with them.
Of course, you will find much more modern, ordinary Estonian women in Talinn, the capital.
I've never been to Estonia, but I've met some Estonians in Hungary. They are generally nice, but very quiet and reserved. Imagine Russians mixed with Finns and you get a pretty good idea of what they're like.
If you like loud, outgoing people, then Estonia probably won't be for you.
Ultra traditional. However my goal is not to live in Estonia, it's to meet a woman abroad and then return to the United States. I doubt a Seto woman would want to relocate to the US, let alone leave her local village. I'll have to read more on Setos, but also they seem to be a culturally and ethnically separate people from Estonians.
I don't like loud people. This is one reason why I don't identify well with my mother's side of the family consisting of Mexicans and Spaniards. They seem to talk for the point of talking and consider talking louder the best way of proving a point. I was always an outsider amongst them because I was not naturally extroverted. My Estonian father on the other hand meets your description of Estonians quite well. He's a quiet man and only speaks when he has something to say. I've taken more to his habits than my mother's.
If you just want quiet people, try Finland as well. Most people speak good English there. I've been there many times. However, most people live very modern lifestyles there. You might be able to find more traditional people far up north in small villages, but they might not speak English so well.
I wouldn't get too caught up in all this "ethnic purity" stuff. Many people of different nationalities have intermarried over the centuries in Europe. The same white man who is Polish could just as easily be taken for a Czech, a Dane, or a Hungarian. Some facial types are unique to certain countries, but often it's it's not always so clear.
My concern isn't with ethnic purity, seeing as I'm mixed race myself. My concern is with having a common background to build on for a long term relationship. I doubt seto women would accept an outsider.
Since you say you've been to Finland and have observed people living very modern lifestyles, I doubt Estonia is any different. The land my father left so many years ago is likely gone and dead.
There's also Karelia which is the land Finland lost to Russia after WWII. Many ethnic Karelians (a sub-group of Finns) still live there and maintain some of the old traditions. I don't know if they'd speak English, though. Most likely they speak Karelian (a dialect of Finnish) and Russian. Maybe you could find a Karelian woman through a Russian marriage agency?
There are also Seto people living on the other side of the Russian-Estonian border (in Russia).
I don't know enough to really say. I think their main concern now is just continuing to exist and maintaining their traditions. If you learn a little bit of their language, act politely, and show an interest in their culture, I'm sure they'd be pleased. I don't see any reason why they'd be unkind to you. They've let some non-Seto Estonians live with them. I think they'd be happy just to find any modern person who actually cares about their culture.
However, marriage is another thing, and I don't know much about their views on that.