JACKAL - Your experiences in Hungary

[i_want_a_hot_white_chick]

Hi Jackal,

As I looked through this site, you are the only member I see who lives in Eastern Europe and posts regularly. I'm considering moving to Eastern Europe so I wanted to ask you about the experiences you have had there. So I was wondering, if you don't mind me asking, how successful have you been with getting long term intimate relationships with the women there? How have things changed since you were in the US? Were you successful with women in the US? How big of a dating advantage did you get by moving to Hungary (i.e. how large is the dating handicap for American men?)

Thanks!

[Jackal]

Hello,

Okay, I'll be honest. I haven't had so much success having long-term relationships with women here, but on the other hand, I don't really want a long-term relationship right now. There is success to be had here, but I guess I still have many of my shy habits from growing up in the US which still hold me back. I plan to improve, though.

You don't automatically get an advantage by being an American here. It depends on the details of your personality and whether the locals feel comfortable with you and whether they find you interesting or not.

Also, keep in mind that I've never lived in Budapest (although I've been there many times). More people speak English there than in any other part of the country and there are many expats there. I've been living in smaller cities and towns where few people speak English. Therefore, I've had to deal with a much larger language barrier and culture barrier.

The first city I lived in wasn't so friendly and I realized that I wasn't achieving what I wanted, so I moved to a smaller, friendlier city. One thing to realize is that even if you choose the right country, you may not choose the right city at first.

Some people may wonder why the hell I'm even here, so I'll tell you the reasons:

1) I feel comfortable here - Some foreign countries make me feel weird and uncomfortable (like the Czech Republic!), whereas Hungary feels very "normal" to me. I like the people here a lot and they are very kind to me in ordinary ways.

2) I have a job I like, and I get a lot more respect being a teacher here than I did in America.

3) I like learning exotic foreign languages - The Hungarian language makes most people give up, but I'm still working on it because I enjoy the challenge. Not everyone is like this. Some people hate learning languages.

4) I like the weather - It's about like Southern New England. The weather isn't extremely cold like in Northern New England or in Scandanavia.

5) I have a lot of personal freedom here - I feel I can do what I want without the government restricting me or without ridiculous people trying to sue me at every turn.

6) This country is not feminist - The other day, I knocked over my glass at work by accident and it broke. I asked a female teacher where the broom and dustpan was. She brought it, but then when I asked to have it, she said, "This is women's work" and sweeped up the pieces herself.

You can also compliment a woman on her looks without getting a slit-eyed "you creep" look in return like you would in America.

7) It's cheap! - If you pull out a 10,000 HUF bill here, most ordinary people think "holy shit! You're rich!" (10,000 HUF = 50 USD). Hell, one of my fellow teachers was complaining the other day that she had to pay 3000 HUF (15 USD) to send a package. Food and public transportation are cheap here. Medicines and healthcare are cheap here too. Once I got sick and had to pay for three different prescription medicines and I only had to pay about 15 USD!

8 ) It's one of the most developed former Eastern Bloc countries - Most things here are pretty civilized and normal (except for some of the bathrooms not having toilet paper!). It's far nicer than Romania.

But I wouldn't recommend Hungary for "middle of the roaders." You have to be a unique kind of person to want to be here. It's more a destiny than a choice.

More ordinary people might want to try the Slavic countries like Poland, Ukraine, Slovakia, or parts of the former Yugoslavia instead.

[gsjackson]

New question, Jackal, if you're in. I have a chance to spend the summer in Prague. Was curious as to what you found offputting about the Czech Republic. I know the people tend to have rather dour expressions when out and about, but would you say the women there were unapproachable? The CR population seems to be mostly atheist. Did you notice an underlying sense of despair, or something of the sort? Prague was the home of Kafka, after all.

[i_want_a_hot_white_chick]

Hi Jackal,

I've been reading though old posts that were made to this forum, and I saw something rather interesting that you said:

If you're making 2 to 4 times the average salary in a poor country, that should be plenty.

For example, in many Eastern European countries, average salaries are only around 600 USD per month (the median would probably be lower still...). If you're making 1200 USD a month, you will already feel quite rich.

Take Hungary for example. The GDP per capita was 18506 USD according to one list. Divide that by 12 and that's equal to 1542 USD per month, which is a hell of a lot more than most people here make. So in poor countries, just having a salary equal to the GDP per capita itself can already be plenty. There's no need to have eight times that amount. Only economic superpowers require such ridiculous amounts of money.

Does this mean, that if a guy is living in Hungary and making just $1,200 a month to $2,400 a month, he would have no trouble getting women, even if he was very ugly? Or did you mean that an average guy would have no trouble with women if he made that much? From what do you base the 2 to 4 times the average salary response on?

[E_Irizarry]

6) This country is not feminist - The other day, I knocked over my glass at work by accident and it broke. I asked a female teacher where the broom and dustpan was. She brought it, but then when I asked to have it, she said, "This is women's work" and sweeped up the pieces herself.

You can also compliment a woman on her looks without getting a slit-eyed "you creep" look in return like you would in America.

NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE. )

[have2fly]

6) This country is not feminist - The other day, I knocked over my glass at work by accident and it broke. I asked a female teacher where the broom and dustpan was. She brought it, but then when I asked to have it, she said, "This is women's work" and sweeped up the pieces herself.

You can also compliment a woman on her looks without getting a slit-eyed "you creep" look in return like you would in America

Yep! It is an Eastern European sign! Ukrainian or Russian girls would say the same. I just have to move to E Europe for a few years to get a breath of "fresh air" and feel myself a wanted man again.

[Think Different]

New question, Jackal, if you're in. I have a chance to spend the summer in Prague. Was curious as to what you found offputting about the Czech Republic. I know the people tend to have rather dour expressions when out and about, but would you say the women there were unapproachable? The CR population seems to be mostly atheist. Did you notice an underlying sense of despair, or something of the sort? Prague was the home of Kafka, after all.

I lived for two years in the Czech Republic in the mid-90s (I was there when the Czech and Slovak Federated Republic split up). My own impressions are that the Czechs are very eccentric and quirky, and not always in a bad way. I spent a lot of time learning the language and was appreciated by most for my efforts (except in Prague). I loved the cultural richness of the country, but the people do tend to be dour and "dark" and über-intellectual. Most families have at least one person that is very proficient in at least one musical instrument. I did date a Czech girl for a while and she was very sweet, but very insecure and whiny, which drove me crazy. When I first went to Prague in 1991, the girls were fawning and dying to know western men and were pretty eager to jump in the sack. By the time I came back in 1993, that had changed. Upon another visit in 2003, it was overly touristy and no one even let me speak Czech anymore, and the girls were prissy, uptight, and not very approachable, not caring about western men. Czech men are good fun and love to hang out and drink shitloads of beer. They tend to dress like long-haired heavy metal rockers, while the young girls wear thigh-high boots and tights in the winter and see-through summer dresses in the summer. Very nice!

I would be curious to know what Jackal's impressions are of the CR, and why he favors Hungary (where I also visited briefly). My two cents is this: if you want friendlier, down-to-earth, smiling people, go to Poland or Hungary, not the Czech Republic.

Funny story: the whole time I was in the CR, they warned me to never go to Poland, since the Poles were all "thieves and gypsies". Well, I did go to Poland, and I loved it. The people (especially the old grannies) were just awesome, and I'm dying to go back there. I don't know what the hell the Czechs were telling me that BS for, since they were dead wrong. Know this: the Czechs and Poles do not like each other.

[Jackal]

Hi Jackal,

I've been reading though old posts that were made to this forum, and I saw something rather interesting that you said:

If you're making 2 to 4 times the average salary in a poor country, that should be plenty.

For example, in many Eastern European countries, average salaries are only around 600 USD per month (the median would probably be lower still...). If you're making 1200 USD a month, you will already feel quite rich.

Take Hungary for example. The GDP per capita was 18506 USD according to one list. Divide that by 12 and that's equal to 1542 USD per month, which is a hell of a lot more than most people here make. So in poor countries, just having a salary equal to the GDP per capita itself can already be plenty. There's no need to have eight times that amount. Only economic superpowers require such ridiculous amounts of money.

Does this mean, that if a guy is living in Hungary and making just $1,200 a month to $2,400 a month, he would have no trouble getting women, even if he was very ugly? Or did you mean that an average guy would have no trouble with women if he made that much? From what do you base the 2 to 4 times the average salary response on?

Well, I wasn't talking about a minimum "to get" women (each one decides individually whether she likes you or not). I was talking about how much feels like "a lot" to an average Hungarian. I guess what I mean is that once you make $1200 or more, most women would be impressed enough (except maybe some of the really stuck up women in Budapest). If you already have a steady income, then I think that women are more influenced by your personality: how kind you are, how romantic you are, how interesting you are, etc. Some women like lots of money, but others feel uncomfortable around men who always show off their money. Just be romantic and kind, show an interest in her culture, and be generous at the right times. There's no need to go overboard with spending money on women.

Getting married is another issue. Parents here are supposed to save up lots of money for their children. Many parents BUY their children an apartment or a house as a wedding present or as a graduation present. Parents also have to pay for their children's weddings. But the solution is easy enough: just don't get married here!

When I first went to Prague in 1991, the girls were fawning and dying to know western men and were pretty eager to jump in the sack. By the time I came back in 1993, that had changed. Upon another visit in 2003, it was overly touristy and no one even let me speak Czech anymore, and the girls were prissy, uptight, and not very approachable, not caring about western men. Czech men are good fun and love to hang out and drink shitloads of beer. They tend to dress like long-haired heavy metal rockers, while the young girls wear thigh-high boots and tights in the winter and see-through summer dresses in the summer. Very nice!

(Referring to the part I made bold) That was my impression as well. The girls were sexy, but unfriendly to Americans who they stereotyped as all being total retards who are like Simpsons characters (I think too many Czechs have watched that cartoon!). I got tired of people thinking that I was just an ignorant fool just because I'm American. I had the opposite experience with the language: I spoke Czech as much as possible, but spoke it badly, so many Czechs didn't like that either. Many restaurants would not have served me if I had not spoken Czech. But Czechs were very nice to other Slavs: Poles, Russians, Slovakians, Bulgarians, etc.

I hear that Prague was the place to be in the early 90s, but that quickly changed. Now Prague is just a grumpy tourist town, especially for older visitors who can't impress anyone in a dance club. If you're young and talented enough to convince people that you're not a total asshole or if you're an older, tough, motorcycle dude, then you might be okay, but why fight those odds?

New question, Jackal, if you're in. I have a chance to spend the summer in Prague. Was curious as to what you found offputting about the Czech Republic. I know the people tend to have rather dour expressions when out and about, but would you say the women there were unapproachable? The CR population seems to be mostly atheist. Did you notice an underlying sense of despair, or something of the sort? Prague was the home of Kafka, after all.

Some people you just don't get along with. Czechs weren't my kind of people. It just didn't work out for me. We didn't understand each other and their culture frustrated me--and their food was terrible!

But Prague was physically one of the most beautiful cities I've ever seen. So if you want to include it in your tour of Europe, go for it, but I wouldn't recommend spending more than a few days there. (And as all always in Eastern Europe, bring your own toilet paper...)

Funny story: the whole time I was in the CR, they warned me to never go to Poland, since the Poles were all "thieves and gypsies". Well, I did go to Poland, and I loved it. The people (especially the old grannies) were just awesome, and I'm dying to go back there. I don't know what the hell the Czechs were telling me that BS for, since they were dead wrong. Know this: the Czechs and Poles do not like each other.

I didn't know that some Czechs hated the Poles. Well, then that makes sense because Hungarians are very fond of the Poles because they both had the same enemies in the past. So, I've clearly switched to the "other side." Lol. On top of this, Hungarians are NOT Slavs, although they've been influenced by some Slavs.

Hungarians have the "thieves and gypsies" stereotype about Romanians--but I've been there and the stereotype ain't too far from the truth... I always breathe a sigh of relief once I've crossed the border back into Hungary.

I haven't been to Slovakia yet, but I'll probably visit there next. I've heard people say that Slovaks are generally friendlier than Czechs.

[i_want_a_hot_white_chick]

Well, I wasn't talking about a minimum "to get" women (each one decides individually whether she likes you or not). I was talking about how much feels like "a lot" to an average Hungarian. I guess what I mean is that once you make $1200 or more, most women would be impressed enough (except maybe some of the really stuck up women in Budapest). If you already have a steady income, then I think that women are more influenced by your personality: how kind you are, how romantic you are, how interesting you are, etc. Some women like lots of money, but others feel uncomfortable around men who always show off their money. Just be romantic and kind, show an interest in her culture, and be generous at the right times. There's no need to go overboard with spending money on women.

Hi Jackal,

Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering, about how much would a person need to spend, per month, to get basic necessities? By that I mean a clean apartment with a toilet and a kitchen, heat, electricity, running water, internet, food, etc. By that I mean the basic necessities of modern life. What would one need to spend?

Also, I'm curious if you have any guesses as to what the monthly cost of a typical Sugar Daddy / Sugar Babe relationship would cost? By that I mean, if a guy were unattractive and wanted a long term completely exclusive Sugar Daddy type relationship about how much would he need to spend to maybe get an average looking woman in her later twenties? In the US, it seems a guy would have to spend at least $10,000 a month and probably more like $20,000 per month to do this. If you have even a wild guess as to this answer I would appreciate it since I can't seem to find very many expats living in Eastern Europe and so it is hard for me to find any information on this topic.

For example, lets say a guy wanted an exclusive girlfriend for 6 months. If he saved up $12,000 and spend $2,000 on per month for those 6 months, would it be enough to keep her around? Would he need less than that or more? I ask because I'm quite ugly and very awkward socially but am lonely. I do have some savings and have worked out a remote working arrangement where I make between $2,000 to $2,500 per month. I'm trying to figure out what I could expect if I moved to Eastern Europe and what options I would have there.

Thanks!

[have2fly]

I know it wasn't a question directed to me, but in Ukraine to be a Sugar Daddy and "support" your girl would cost you around 1,500-2,000 for a VERY hot chick, unless she is rich. If you want a super-model quality, it may cost more. I think Hungary is somewhere nearby in the price range. My guess is if you spend around a 1,000 bucks a month on a girl, she would be pretty well off and glad to have you.

The thing you have to understand - there are MANY very good looking girls ALL over Eastern Europe and they may even love you without you spending money. Being a Sugar Daddy would be the last thing I would be thinking of if I would live in E. Europe.

[Rock]

I know it wasn't a question directed to me, but in Ukraine to be a Sugar Daddy and "support" your girl would cost you around 1,500-2,000 for a VERY hot chick, unless she is rich. If you want a super-model quality, it may cost more. I think Hungary is somewhere nearby in the price range. My guess is if you spend around a 1,000 bucks a month on a girl, she would be pretty well off and glad to have you.

The thing you have to understand - there are MANY very good looking girls ALL over Eastern Europe and they may even love you without you spending money. Being a Sugar Daddy would be the last thing I would be thinking of if I would live in E. Europe.

But that only works out to US$33 per day. Do you really think a very unattractive or much older guy can find a fairly hot and young white girl there who would stay exclusively with him for that or even twice that? It sounds like chump change for a girl like that but then again, I've never been to Eastern Europe. If that's the case, it sounds a hell of a lot better than the little brown peasant girls your money gets you in Phils.

[Jackal]

Hi Jackal,

Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering, about how much would a person need to spend, per month, to get basic necessities? By that I mean a clean apartment with a toilet and a kitchen, heat, electricity, running water, internet, food, etc. By that I mean the basic necessities of modern life. What would one need to spend?

Also, I'm curious if you have any guesses as to what the monthly cost of a typical Sugar Daddy / Sugar Babe relationship would cost? By that I mean, if a guy were unattractive and wanted a long term completely exclusive Sugar Daddy type relationship about how much would he need to spend to maybe get an average looking woman in her later twenties? In the US, it seems a guy would have to spend at least $10,000 a month and probably more like $20,000 per month to do this. If you have even a wild guess as to this answer I would appreciate it since I can't seem to find very many expats living in Eastern Europe and so it is hard for me to find any information on this topic.

Hi,

I'm in kind of a hurry right now. I don't know exact numbers for stuff like utilities because I live in my school's apartment for free, so I don't have to pay any of that, but I doubt that it would be more than 10000 HUF per month for utilities. I pay 3700 HUF a month for highspeed internet plus basic cable (but with no channels in English--who cares, I have the internet for that).

The price of food depends on whether you want to eat out a lot or whether you will cook your own food. If you make most of your meals, you could get by on maybe 40,000 to 50,000 HUF per month. If you eat out, an average meal will probably cost you from about 1500 to 2000 HUF in a resaurant. McDonalds is around 1200 HUF. A fancy meal may be 4000 to 5000 HUF. A shot of pálinka (the local spirit) is about 600 HUF.

I remember looking at websites before and giving someone an estimate. I think it is probably in one of my older posts here.

Another thing to consider is that living in the capital city of any country is far more expensive than living anywhere else. Perhaps the smart thing would be to live just far enough from the capital to get a cheap place to live, but close enough that you can still get there easily.

For foreigners who aren't willing to hassle with too much, I would recommend Budapest because more people speak English there than in any other part of the country. Outside the capital, you will run into serious frustrations if you don't speak Hungarian. Debrecen is the second-largest city and might be okay if you're a student or a professor because there's a big, beautiful university there and many of the teachers and students speak English. If you speak German, you might be able to get by with that in the western parts of Hungary which are close to Austria.

Talk to you later.

[Jackal]

Ah, here's the thread where I talked about the cost of living in Hungary. (Go to the bottom of the 1st page.)
viewtopic.php?t=6345

[i_want_a_hot_white_chick]

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@ have2fly

I know it wasn't a question directed to me, but in Ukraine to be a Sugar Daddy and "support" your girl would cost you around 1,500-2,000 for a VERY hot chick, unless she is rich. If you want a super-model quality, it may cost more. I think Hungary is somewhere nearby in the price range. My guess is if you spend around a 1,000 bucks a month on a girl, she would be pretty well off and glad to have you.

Wow! I'm glad to hear it is so inexpensive! When you say I would only need $1,000 per month, do you mean this for a guy who is say, 1.5 out of 10 in the looks department? Would a very ugly mid thirties guy really be able to get a mid twenties girl who was at least average looking for only $1,000 per month? Or were you thinking of more of an average looking guy when you said this? If it really is only $1,000 per month, I've got to move to Ukraine ASAP!

Would $2,000 per month be enough to get a chick like the one in my avatar?

http://www.loveme.com/women/info118524.htm

What do you base the estimate on? Have you witnessed Sugar Daddy relationships in Ukraine? Do you know any guys who have Sugardaddied Ukrainian women?

Thank you VERY much for the info, have2fly. That gives me a lot of hope!


@ Rock

But that only works out to US$33 per day. Do you really think a very unattractive or much older guy can find a fairly hot and young white girl there who would stay exclusively with him for that or even twice that? It sounds like chump change for a girl like that but then again, I've never been to Eastern Europe. If that's the case, it sounds a hell of a lot better than the little brown peasant girls your money gets you in Phils.

Yes, why would anyone bother with the Phils if you can get a good looking White woman in her twenties for only $1,000 per month.


@ Jackal


Thanks for the info. So 1 USD is 200 HUF, right? So it is:

I doubt that it would be more than 10000 HUF per month for utilities.

$50 a month for Utilities

I pay 3700 HUF a month for highspeed internet plus basic cable (but with no channels in English--who cares, I have the internet for that).

$18.50 a month for high speed internet! That is great! How reliable is it? I would depend on it for my work so it would need to be very reliable. How often does it go down?

If you make most of your meals, you could get by on maybe 40,000 to 50,000 HUF per month.

$200 to $250 a month! Yes I make most of my meals so that is good.

If you eat out, an average meal will probably cost you from about 1500 to 2000 HUF in a restaurant.

$7.50 to $10 in a restaurant.

Another thing to consider is that living in the capital city of any country is far more expensive than living anywhere else. Perhaps the smart thing would be to live just far enough from the capital to get a cheap place to live, but close enough that you can still get there easily.
If you speak German, you might be able to get by with that in the western parts of Hungary which are close to Austria.

Yes I did learn some German in school. Is the western part of Hungary also poor?

I saw an ad for an apartment in Pécs (a small city) and the rent was only 100 USD per month--which included utilities! It seems that outside of Budapest, rent starts around 100 to 240 USD plus utilities. As soon as you get out of the capital, there are lots of good deals.

So outside of the capital, I could get a place for only:
$100 to $240.
How do these apartments differ from those in the US? Are they dilapidated? How much of a difference would there be between them an a US apartment?

So in total I would be paying:

$50 for utilities
$18.50 for internet
$200 to $250 for food
$100 to $240 for rent

$368.50 to $558.50 total!

So a person really could live there for less than $600 a month!

I assume there are other miscellaneous things? What about health insurance?

Outside of Budapest, you could buy a simple house for about 15,000 USD or less!

Can a foreigner own property there?

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[Jackal]

Thanks for the info. So 1 USD is 200 HUF, right?

Yes, that's a good estimate. The rate varies. Today 1 USD = 197 HUF.

$50 a month for Utilities

Yeah, that's my estimate. Unless, of course, you really crank the heat during the winter like an old woman.

$18.50 a month for high speed internet! That is great! How reliable is it? I would depend on it for my work so it would need to be very reliable. How often does it go down?

Actually, it has just been increased to 4300 per month, which is still good. The price depends on the company.

I've never experienced it "go down." A few times a year, It won't let me log on, but then I just try it again a few minutes later, and it's fine again.

Yes I did learn some German in school. Is the western part of Hungary also poor?

It's probably the wealthiest area outside the capital, but it's still poor by western standards. However, I would stay away from the area where the toxic sludge disaster happened last year.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oc ... udge-spill

So outside of the capital, I could get a place for only:
$100 to $240.
How do these apartments differ from those in the US? Are they dilapidated? How much of a difference would there be between them an a US apartment?

I assume you mean generally. Most apartment buildings look ugly and run-down from the outside, but are nicer inside. They generally have high ceilings (I can't touch my ceiling even when I jump!) and a stove and an oven (plus a bathroom, of course). Some apartments in Budapest have gas heaters for the water, which makes the water either too hot or freezing cold. There is a solution though: You turn the hot water on in the sink to keep the gas burner on, and then you adjust the cold water with the shower tap. Most apartments here are okay and nothing terrible, but nothing beautiful either.

So a person really could live there for less than $600 a month!

Yes, of course. I believe I've seen the average salary listed as 600 Euros and many people have kids they have to pay for in addition to other things.

What about health insurance?

I don't know about that. I work for the Hungarian government, so I get mine through them.

Can a foreigner own property there?

It looks like it:

"What are the steps in buying property in Hungary?

For a foreign investor who wants to purchase real estate in Budapest there are two ways to proceed:

1. The buyer can apply for a permit as a private person, which means submitting an application to the local authorities to acquire the properties(s). The costs associated with the procedure is approximately € 250
2. Foreign buyers can establish a local Hungarian company, usually a limited liability company. This is preferable if the purchaser wishes to acquire multiple properties."
http://www.sunshineestates.net/buying-p ... dapest.asp