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Which places in the US have the lowest cost of living?

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to North America. For those looking to relocate within the US or Canada, discuss your experiences and pros/cons of each domestic region.

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Postby noog » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:27 pm

Winston wrote:Ok I looked up North Dakota in Google Images. Looks very nice. Lots of open plains and low mountains. Looks like a scene from the Oregon Trail game. lol South Dakota looks nice too. Is South Dakota just as good?

Are the people there like The Waltons family? lol

Are women approachable there? Would they find an Asian guy exotic? lol


I live in South Dakota. The nice thing economically here is no state income tax, so businesses and individuals have it a bit easier here. Food and gas prices are pretty reasonable here.

People are fairly tolerant and kind here, but can be cliquey. Don't expect good dating prospects here though because the singles scene is terrible here. In fact I would challenge anyone to find a singles scene that is worse or more insipid than what exists here in Sioux Falls, comparing other US cities of a similar size. It's very family oriented and a red state here. Great place to raise kids and have a wife, TERRIBLE place for meeting women. And it's not just all in my head, I have friends and acquaintances from Oregon, California, Texas, Wisconsin and Minnesota who spent time here and have told me the same thing.
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Postby OutWest » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:34 pm

Winston wrote:Ok I looked up North Dakota in Google Images. Looks very nice. Lots of open plains and low mountains. Looks like a scene from the Oregon Trail game. lol South Dakota looks nice too. Is South Dakota just as good?

Are the people there like The Waltons family? lol

Are women approachable there? Would they find an Asian guy exotic? lol


You people have ANY idea what a North Dakota winter is like? LOL Not exactly someplace people want to retire!
The fact is, not many people want to live there. Where do people like to go when they retire? The coldest place in the
lower 48 ? LOL Hardly. Of course they want to go someplace warm.

As one of your posters has already pointed out, Arizona, and especially the Tucson area is likely the best VALUE in the USA today.
It will become a premium destination in time...get in while it is cheap.

Or then again, you could move to North Dakota...LOL

Hint: In the winter, parking lots in North Dakota are not full of cars from Arizona...figure it out.


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Postby MrPeabody » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:51 pm

I lived in North Dakota when I was younger. I was warmer there in the winter than Mexico, because they have good central heating whereas in Mexico, when there is a cold wave, you just have to suffer. There are a lot of Scandinavians there and they know how to make things comfortable in cold weather. They also had a saying – “Cold weather keeps the riff raff awayâ€￾. There are a lot of oil jobs now in the western part of North Dakota, however since they are oil towns, there is probably going to be a female shortage. The women there can be quite beautiful.
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Postby Winston » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:01 pm

Location-wise, I thought Flagstaff, AZ was the optimal place as it was in the center of everything I wanted to be around in the US. But the biggest problem there is that there is a railroad track that runs right through the center of town, and every 15 minutes a loud train goes by. Really stupid. A total bummer on what could have been a great place to live. Someone didn't have the common sense to build railroad tracks further away.

New Mexico is another great place. But I heard that the number one rated retirement place is Colorado. It's probably the most beautiful state in the US, next to Arizona and Utah, and Hawaii too. And the people are pretty down to earth.

I didn't know Mexico was cold in winter. I thought it was like the Philippines, warm year round.
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Postby Jester » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:09 pm

noog wrote:
I live in South Dakota. The nice thing economically here is no state income tax, so businesses and individuals have it a bit easier here. Food and gas prices are pretty reasonable here.

People are fairly tolerant and kind here, but can be cliquey. Don't expect good dating prospects here though because the singles scene is terrible here. In fact I would challenge anyone to find a singles scene that is worse or more insipid than what exists here in Sioux Falls, comparing other US cities of a similar size. It's very family oriented and a red state here. Great place to raise kids and have a wife, TERRIBLE place for meeting women. And it's not just all in my head, I have friends and acquaintances from Oregon, California, Texas, Wisconsin and Minnesota who spent time here and have told me the same thing.


Been to Sioux fals back in the day, and loved it.

And yes I was married then, not trying to pick up.

Good place to tap into Flyover America.

Hastings, Nebraska was like that too. Local industry surrounded by holdover agrarian values.
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Postby gsjackson » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:42 pm

Flagstaff is up in the mountains and is very different country from the Sonoran desert. Winters are cold, but in the summers it can't be beat. I went up there from Tucson one weekend in the summer to play golf. A combination of that heady mountain air and one beer, and I was flying. Very intoxicating experience. Real estate in Flagstaff, and in the other mountain west communities, never lost much value when the bubble burst, and is quite a bit more expensive than Tucson or Phoenix.

North Dakota has a booming economy right now. The mainstream media will tell you it is due to oil, but I think even more important is the fact that the state has its own bank, which stimulates the economy without strapping everyone to the bankster-debt rack. The Scandanavians who settled the state have always had a strong ethic of social welfare, and as Mr. P said, the cold keeps the rabble out.

But it keeps me out too. I can't go seven months out of the year anymore without going outside. I'm more and more convinced of the therapeutic value of sunshine, and the amount of it we get here in Tucson I consider an invaluable resource.

I've been doing this looking for the ideal place thing for 38 years now. I first came out to Tucson in '77 because it was a hotbed for handball, and have been in and out ever since. Now I'm sold, and am here to stay. For the quality of life you get -- assuming you value things like great weather, beautiful country, great sports town, etc. -- I simply can't believe what a value the real estate is right now.
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Postby marklambo » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:37 pm

Winston wrote:Thanks for your take MarkLambo.

So do you think Las Vegas is good as a real estate investment opportunity?

Are the good areas in Vegas in gated communities? My aunt lives in a gated community. Is that better?

The horrible traffic in Las Vegas is on the strip, which is jam packed 24/7 with dangerous aggressive drivers. Outside of that, the traffic is ok.

How do you meet people there? Is there a way to meet the foreign girls visiting there? What about the locals?

Is Couchsurfing.com and Meetup.org the best way?

I have no gambling addiction. But sometimes I go to strip clubs. Which ones do you recommend there?


You're welcome Winston.

At this time, yes it's a great investment opportunity. Last year was even better. After the crash, it's pretty much a good investment in most places. Now is the time to buy and stock up.

Yes, the good areas are in gated communities. I live in a gated community with security. There are many places like this here and gated is good of course.

The traffic on the strip is only very bad on Friday and Saturday nights usually. But anyone that lives in Vegas, they don't drive on the strip anyway. People either drive on the freeways or cross over the strip. Strip traffic is nothing to worry about when living here. Most of the time, you won't even be driving on it unless you actually want to be on the strip or go to a casino. Even if there is traffic, there are back roads to avoid traffic. Traffic is not a big deal as a local. Drivers are not aggressive on the strip.

Meeting people is like anywhere. If you try to meet girls in night clubs, it will be a little tougher depending on the club. Some clubs attract very snotty and stuck up girls and there are other clubs that attract more approachable girls. It all depends and it takes time to know where to go and who to talk to. In general, women are shitty because these are American women and they all feel entitled. Foreign women come here to visit but you don't always see them in clubs. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. A lot of foreigners that come here tend to do a lot of the outdoor stuff such as visiting the hoover dam, grand canyon tours, etc. You're better off just trying to meet local women in normal places like coffee shops, bookstores, grocery stores, etc.
The locals are ok but you have to be sharp minded to know how to pick the good from the bad. Vegas is a hustle town and you have to be street wise at certain times otherwise you can get taken advantage of. Be smart and have common sense, that's all. Not difficult.

I've never used couchsurfing.com or meetup.org so I don't know.

Ah...strip clubs...my area of expertise haha. I tend to go to a lot of them too and I know a lot of people in the industry. This all depends on if you go there as a tourist or as a local.

Local: Crazy Horse 3 and the Spearmint Rhino are the best
Tourist: Spearmint Rhino and Sapphire

There are many other strip clubs but those 3 are the best in terms of quality women, service, and environment.

There are also all nude strip clubs. There is no alcohol served because of the law. There is one place in Vegas that serves alcohol and is all nude and that's the Pallomino. They are under the grandfather law so they can do that. But if you're interested in looking at fully nude 18-20 year old girls and having fully nude lap dances, those are places to find them.

The reason why Crazy Horse 3 and Spearmint Rhino are best for locals is because you can go there and not feel so hustled by waitresses forcing you to drink. If you just go there to just sit and relax and even if you don't want to drink, you can still sit. If you go to Sapphire, they won't let you sit down unless you buy drinks. If you don't drink, they tell you to go stand by the bar. I personally hate that place and the only time I go is if I have friends in town that are dying to go there. It's overrated. Spearmint Rhino I would say is #1 in terms of women. It's smaller than the newly redesigned Crazy Horse 3 but there are more hot women in general in there. If you go to the Spearmint Rhino, it's not good to go there before 3am because it is too crowded and you'll never find a place to sit. But the busiest times are around 10pm - 2am there. The Rhino stays open 24/7. You can be partying till 7am and walk in the Rhino and still find plenty of girls. No other strip club is like that. All the other strip clubs will die out around 4am. Going to strip clubs on the weekdays are also very good.

I've been in Vegas for so many years now so now I'm at the point where if I go to a strip club, I just go there to hang with my friends and enjoy the night after we finish going to the clubs. I don't even get lap dances anymore. Once in a while I might, if the vibe with the girl is really good.

Overall, Vegas is a great place if you don't let it eat you alive and be responsible. I can't see myself living anywhere else unless it's abroad. Even if I was abroad, I would still keep my Vegas property as a second home.
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Postby jamesbond » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:07 am

Disillusioned_American wrote:I think Oklahoma has the lowest cost of living, but honestly, I don't think you would like it there. I think you have to find a compromise between lower cost of living, and a tolerable environment.


When I visited Oklahoma a few years ago, the women DEFINETLY seemed more friendly and down to earth. I was in Tulsa and the real estate was very inexpensive and there was not much traffic.

However, the summers are extreamly HOT and HUMID and you get quite a few tornadoes from spring through the fall. In the winter, you can get ice storms and snowstorms.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:54 pm

Great info MarkLambo.

However, I don't agree about traffic on the strip though. When I'm there, it is packed and crowded 24/7. So many lanes of traffic. It feels stressful driving on there. Tons of aggressive taxis that will cut you off. It felt dangerous driving there. Maybe I don't have a good feel of the road for driving in cities.

I did go to one strip club in Las Vegas before. It was small, cozy and laid back. The girls were nice and the blonde waitress sat and talked to me for an hour with no incentive or pressure to do anything. She wasn't trying to get me to do anything. I thought I vibed with her well. So I asked her out after work. She said yes. I thought I was going to score with her that night. She seemed honest and sincere. But she stood me up. I waited at the place we were going to meet at, but she never showed. Then I called her and she said she would come now but never showed up yet again. After that, she didn't answer the phone at all. WTF happened?

It was a huge let down. I got such good vibes from her. I thought I was going to score with a hot blonde. It would have been the first time in the US that I had scored a cute blonde like that. WTF happened? It was such a huge let down. She seemed to enjoy my company earlier.

I don't remember which strip club it was though. But it was in a quiet area in a small cozy place. Not many people. And the girls were friendly and sexy. I got a great lap dance from one. She let me touch her all over too and was not uptight about it.
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Postby marklambo » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:47 am

Winston wrote:Great info MarkLambo.

However, I don't agree about traffic on the strip though. When I'm there, it is packed and crowded 24/7. So many lanes of traffic. It feels stressful driving on there. Tons of aggressive taxis that will cut you off. It felt dangerous driving there. Maybe I don't have a good feel of the road for driving in cities.

I did go to one strip club in Las Vegas before. It was small, cozy and laid back. The girls were nice and the blonde waitress sat and talked to me for an hour with no incentive or pressure to do anything. She wasn't trying to get me to do anything. I thought I vibed with her well. So I asked her out after work. She said yes. I thought I was going to score with her that night. She seemed honest and sincere. But she stood me up. I waited at the place we were going to meet at, but she never showed. Then I called her and she said she would come now but never showed up yet again. After that, she didn't answer the phone at all. WTF happened?

It was a huge let down. I got such good vibes from her. I thought I was going to score with a hot blonde. It would have been the first time in the US that I had scored a cute blonde like that. WTF happened? It was such a huge let down. She seemed to enjoy my company earlier.

I don't remember which strip club it was though. But it was in a quiet area in a small cozy place. Not many people. And the girls were friendly and sexy. I got a great lap dance from one. She let me touch her all over too and was not uptight about it.


The only time the strip is filled with traffic is if you're coming here during the main touristy seasons or certain days/times of the week. Who drives through the strip anyway? Only tourists that don't know back roads do. For someone that lives here, traffic is not a big deal. I used to live in Jersey and drove in New York City multiple times a week and in NYC, they are the aggressive drivers. Las Vegas strip cab drivers and regular drivers are nothing compared to that. Whenever I need to go to the strip on the busy times, I just take back roads and never have an issue getting to where I need to go.

Yea, the strip clubs are the best here compared to other states. California has the worst strip clubs. Some clubs have this stupid "air dancing" bullshit that they dance in front of you but not on you. So lame. I've had many great lap dances here in Vegas that were a lot more than lap dances if you know what I mean haha. I even had free lap dances, free vip room sessions, etc. Just depends on how you vibe with the girl and how tight your game is. It's all a game here.

As for being flaked on by the blonde. Don't be surprised because there are many flakes here. It's something you have to learn to deal with. It's all a numbers game. To be successful at dating here, you need to stock up on a lot of numbers. There are many times where I set up a date on the same night with 3 girls or more at the same time because at least 1 always flakes. Then if 2 of them confirm, I just cancel one out and reschedule. This is how you have to play the game here. I know it sucks but that's AW for you, and Vegas women are a different animal. A girl from Vegas and a girl from Nebraska are totally different and you have to play it differently. You need to exude a lot of confidence to date here. Don't expect to find love here either, it's VERY RARE. Yes it happens but not so often. Just have fun, I do :D
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Postby dsrtrick » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:46 am

Anywhere in southern Arizona is cheap, Tucson I hear is getting a little too ghetto from what I hear but idk but I do have family out there so I'll ask my aunt who lives there. Phoenix is a good choice but if you are talking cheap new homes anywhere on the outskirts of Phoenix like Queen Creek, San Tan, Casa Grande they were practically giving homes away out there. The weather can not be beat most of the year but the summers are hot but atleast it's not humid at all out here. Flagstaff is nice too but the other night it had a low of -14 degrees so if you can deal with that then that would be a good place cause real estate is steady out there. Anthem which is just north of Phoenix is really nice but there was a storm that ripped through their & many people lost a lot. If you can afford it Scottsdale, Paradise Valley which is the richest city in Arizona & is just east of Phoenix, Scottsdale, Fountain Hills, Payson, Show Low, Prescott, Cottonwood, & of course Sedona which is a beautiful place too. Hear are some others in the metro Phoenix area, Mesa, Tempe which has ASU, Gilbert, Chandler, Peoria, Surprise, & Glendale. Avondale & Buckeye are ok but the southwestern side of Phoenix is kind of crowded & in my opion doesn't have enough to do other than West Gate, basically there isn't enough to do for 20-40 year olds who want to go out in the night. Bars & Clubs are not very good out there, for that you want to stick to Tempe, downtown Phoenix, Scottsdale or even Mesa or Chandler are much better. Phoenix and the metro area are very safe too & San Diego, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Lake Havasu & Puerto Penasco where spring breakers like to go are all within a 300-400 mile drive away. Hope this helps & good luck!
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Postby Winston » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:27 pm

Hi Mark,
I guess maybe we have a different definition of what "bad traffic" is. lol

Anyway, if we get a home down there, maybe we can hit those strip clubs together sometime.

Btw, we found a fantastic deal in Henderson, NV on the real estate site Zillow.com. It's a nice condo with swimming pool for $69,000. Not bad huh? What do you think? What is Henderson like? How close is it to the main hot spots of Las Vegas?

What do locals in Las Vegas do for fun anyway? Where do they hang out at? Why do they hate the strip so much and all the attractions there? Is it because they don't like the crowds? Why move to Vegas if you hate the strip? That doesn't make sense. lol
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Postby marklambo » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:51 pm

Winston wrote:Hi Mark,
I guess maybe we have a different definition of what "bad traffic" is. lol

Anyway, if we get a home down there, maybe we can hit those strip clubs together sometime.

Btw, we found a fantastic deal in Henderson, NV on the real estate site Zillow.com. It's a nice condo with swimming pool for $69,000. Not bad huh? What do you think? What is Henderson like? How close is it to the main hot spots of Las Vegas?

What do locals in Las Vegas do for fun anyway? Where do they hang out at? Why do they hate the strip so much and all the attractions there? Is it because they don't like the crowds? Why move to Vegas if you hate the strip? That doesn't make sense. lol


Yea, we probably do have a different definition of bad traffic haha. Yea, if you're down here, I can show you around at the clubs, not a problem.

Yea, that's a good deal. About a year ago, condos were even cheaper but they are still a great deal now. If you don't like traffic, you may want to avoid some parts of Henderson. Some parts of Henderson are a little more clumped close together and it tends to have a little more traffic at times. If traffic is a concern, you may want to look at properties in Summerlin or the South West area. But again, the traffic is not anywhere near as bad as California or New York City. Henderson is typically like 10-15 minutes away from the strip, just depending on which part of Henderson.

Locals do all types of things. Some like to go to clubs on local nights, some like doing things like paintball, gun ranges, bowling, billiards, going to movies, nice dinners, hiking etc. Some like to do a little gambling, some don't. You'll also find some locals hanging out at local bars away from the strip. It's really just like living anywhere else. People get the misconception that if you live in Vegas, you're just a degenerate gambler or alcoholic and it's so far from the truth. Close minded people usually are the ones to judge.

The way a tourist parties and the way a local does, is quite different. When you go to the strip, you can always tell who's a tourist because it's usually someone screaming out the top of their lungs, can't walk straight, doing dumb things, passing out on the floor, etc. Very very rarely you will ever see a local doing those things. Locals don't hate the strip but sometimes they avoid it because they don't want to be around the obnoxious tourists all the time. Believe me, they can be very annoying at times. Like I mentioned earlier, locals still will party on the strip but they'll mainly go on local nights....the nights where there are little to no tourists.

By the way, if you need an agent to assist you with buying a property, let me know. I know a few people personally that may help you.
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mesa arizona

Postby targetguy » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:03 am

:roll: Mesa arizona is a good retirement detination for many canadians because of the year around warm weather and cheap rv living here. There is
still a lot of industry here as opposed to las vegas which only has conventions and tourism. If a person only wants to retire in the usa las vegas is probobly less but as far as jobs there are more in arizona or texas or north dakota. The houseing market in arizona has been going up do to the industry that has not fallen apart like the rest of the country and the lower non union wages here. My opinion is that this whole country needs a change in values and rewarding actors and sports players the most while industry falls apart is not the best way.
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Re: mesa arizona

Postby marklambo » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:16 am

targetguy wrote::roll: Mesa arizona is a good retirement detination for many canadians because of the year around warm weather and cheap rv living here. There is
still a lot of industry here as opposed to las vegas which only has conventions and tourism. If a person only wants to retire in the usa las vegas is probobly less but as far as jobs there are more in arizona or texas or north dakota. The houseing market in arizona has been going up do to the industry that has not fallen apart like the rest of the country and the lower non union wages here. My opinion is that this whole country needs a change in values and rewarding actors and sports players the most while industry falls apart is not the best way.


Yea it is true that it is mainly conventions and tourism, but also the night life industry is huge too. It really all depends on someone's goals. If they want to retire in a place with the option of having entertainment readily available, then Vegas is the place. There are always shows to watch, places to eat at all different times of the day, living is inexpensive and so is dining out.

For someone who plans to retire in Vegas and wants a quiet life, they can still do so at many of the nice areas such as Summerlin or certain parts of Henderson. Summerlin for example is about 15-20 min away from the strip and it's an excellent area with virtually no crime and extremely quiet. There are also many parts of Vegas where people can raise and own horses. Many times I've seen people walking their horses. Not on the strip of course. I think Vegas overall is a good place because you're right in the middle. You can easily drive to Utah, Arizona, California, etc. But for job hunting, you're limited to the Casinos, conventions, night life, etc. For me personally, if I lived somewhere else, I would be bored out of my mind. But that's just me.
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