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Conformity in America (pun intended)

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to North America. For those looking to relocate within the US or Canada, discuss your experiences and pros/cons of each domestic region.

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Conformity in America (pun intended)

Postby momopi » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:23 am

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"We conform to the loli/gothic lolita clique!"

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"We conform to the rave clique!"

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"We conform to the Crüxshadows fan club!"
http://www.cruxshadows.com/

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"Conforming to MMORPG clique 4TW!"

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"I conform to the SG piercings and tattoos clique!"
http://suicidegirls.com/

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"We conform to EMO clique!"

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"I conform to the DEF CON hax0r clique!"

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"We conform to the Ren Faire mooning clique!"

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"We confirm to the young metalhead clique!"

(When we grow up, we might look like this:)
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"I conform to the, uh... never mind. If you want to be like me, you have issues."
http://www.marilynmanson.com/

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BONUS VIDEO: How to conform to the Asian Teeny Bopper Image:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp670yHJCbw
Last edited by momopi on Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby ladislav » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:26 am

These are non mainstream wackoes and weirdoes. Most people just conform to the jeans and T shirt/sneakers mainstream.
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Postby momopi » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:43 am

ladislav wrote:These are non mainstream wackoes and weirdoes. Most people just conform to the jeans and T shirt/sneakers mainstream.


1. By what criteria would you use to judge non-mainstream sub-cultures & fashions to be "wackos" and "weirdos"?

2. Excluding small niche markets like Gothic Lolita, some sub-cultures have gotten pretty big in size. i.e. EDC had 185,000+ attendees, SDCC 125,000+, AX 105,000, etc. Still, they're dwarfed by Comiket with ~560,000 attendees in 2009.

3. Some sub-culture fans are against going mainstream. For example:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/07/22/i ... index.html



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Mayor of Los Angeles at Anime Expo 2010
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Postby globetrotter » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:29 am

momopi wrote:
ladislav wrote:These are non mainstream wackoes and weirdoes. Most people just conform to the jeans and T shirt/sneakers mainstream.


1. By what criteria would you use to judge non-mainstream sub-cultures & fashions to be "wackos" and "weirdos"?


Normal distribution.

The criteria of normal, healthy, well-adjusted sane people; and NO I am not going to get in to a debate about what those terms mean.

You have lived in Socal too long. You have lost the ability to tell normal from whackos.

The rest of the planet would think that the people in these photos are whackos and weirdos.

The mayor had his picture taken with them? So what? Appeal to Authority proves nothing and even Politicians in Socal are nuts.

Asians might find them temporarily entertaining but they would be laughed at in most cities outside of BSG in China.

Really, California isn't normal momopi. You need to accept this. From the ruthless, lying business culture, to the fact that almost everyone lied on their house buying process (and felt they deserved to...), to the whackos photographed here who are reacting to the sick, stressful, untrusting and ruthless culture that exists in California and elsewhere in the USA.

People will behave as the most amoral assholes to justify earning the money so that they can live 'where the weather is perfect all year round...'. Yeah, been there, done that and it is not worth it.
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Postby Enishi » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:56 am

Nothing wrong with having niche interests. I have quite a few myself. During my teenage years, video games and anime and fantasy novels were the only things which kept me from going nuts with loneliness and boredom.

I think what happens is that those who maybe are more thoughtful or sensitive than normal, and feel ostracized by the social dysfunction and loneliness of american society react by building their entire sense of identity around their niche interest, and then from there end up forming little cliques with similar individuals.

In many ways, many of these little mini niche herds are just as bad as the major herds, they simply have different biases. I've tried making friends in several, butiIf you don't try really hard to "express" others with flamboyant words and behavior, you end up being second fiddle.

With many counter culture mini herds, the brainwashed group think in regards to feminist/mangina beliefs is even worse than in the rest of the population.
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Postby momopi » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:12 pm

Some of the subcultures actually originated from E. Asia, where it's considered subculture/alt fashion rather than counterculture. For example, Rococo & Loli fashion has its roots in Kansai region from 1970s onward, with labels like Pink House, Milk, Angelic Pretty, Baby the Stars Shine Bright, Metamorphose temps de fille, Atsuki Onishi, Hiromichi Nakano, Jane Maple, Emily Temple Cute, etc.

The genre spread to other parts of Japan (i.e. Harajuku) in 1980s, and was further popuarlized by visual kei (image) bands like malice Mizer (1992-2001). The much smaller American following started mainly with cosplayers in 1990s, and didn't gain enough numbers to make the alt fashion niche market viable until the 2000's. Today you can buy the English edition of "Gothic & Lolita Bible" on Amazon.com, and mainstream American designers like Marc Jacobs has taken elements of Rococo in his clothing line. In Japan some department stores carry goth/loli clothing lines.

As a spin off of Kosupure-kei inshokuten (cosplay restaurants), you'll find the first "maid cafe" ROYAL/T in America at Culver City, Los Angeles:
http://www.royal-t.org/

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Rococo Rendezvous video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aci-CMMLHcc

Now, on the flip side, this genre does have a "built in expiry date", after a number of years the people are simply too old to look the part. In comparison, stuff like manga/anime has much longer "shelf-life".



globetrotter wrote:You have lived in Socal too long. You have lost the ability to tell normal from whackos.
The rest of the planet would think that the people in these photos are whackos and weirdos.


I think of it as artistic, non-mundane self-expression. Your opinion may vary. i.am.geek

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globetrotter wrote:Really, California isn't normal momopi. You need to accept this. From the ruthless, lying business culture, to the fact that almost everyone lied on their house buying process (and felt they deserved to...), to the whackos photographed here who are reacting to the sick, stressful, untrusting and ruthless culture that exists in California and elsewhere in the USA.


I'm from Asia (Taiwan) and had one foot in OC and another in Taipei (where my parents reside) for some years. To me, OC is less competitive/stressful and nicer than Taipei, except the supply of Asian girls is much larger in Taiwan. From 2006-2009 I was part of the Irvine Housing Blog crew, and we advocated against buying properties during market bubble ("don't be a knife catcher"). I've never bought a property with anything other than full doc, 30-year fixed rate loans.

From my point of view, RE in Southern California is a bargain compared to Tokyo, Seoul, Shanghai, Taipei, HK, SG, etc. I was in Tianjin a couple years back and thought the developments were mostly hit-and-run (my ex-GF's father was the developer, cough cough). In all honesty, I had a great time in California during my younger/school years -- fishing, summer camp, rowing a canoe, going to the beach, body boarding, play with snow at Big Bear, learning how to shoot from my older cousins, etc. But, it stopped being fun after college. The Chinese expression 下海 (down the ocean) describes the situation. It took me several years to figure out how to adjust my lifestyle/social life outside the comforts of school.

Commenting on the LA Mayor photo, my position is that if the anime cosplay hobby was considered so far off to the fringe and freakish here, he wouldn't have attended the convention and posed for publicity photo. Such photos would be detrimental to his future political career. To cite another example, I wouldn't expect him to attend a furry convention and pose for photos there. That, would definitely have a negative impact on his future (re)elections.

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Postby Winston » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:13 pm

When we speak of conformity, we are referring to the system that the mainstream media upholds, where one works and consumes as a happy slave, and lives in fear and paranoia, and agrees with whatever consensus opinion that the media tells them.

You are allowed to be Democrat or Republican, pro or anti abortion, etc. But you are not allowed to say that the media is not liberal or that the war in Iraq is wrong or that there is no democracy in America.

You can be weird within certain confines. The system allows that to let you express yourself. But the system does not condone you opposing it directly and unveiling its lies.
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Postby ladislav » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:10 pm

The Anime and other such things are also neat sub-mainstreams. They are highly compartmentalized movements and are generally after work activities. These are not really individualist things, you just follow a trend created by someone else. Kind of like sports. And yes, you are allowed to be strange within those confines. However, I remember coming from the Philippines and getting nasty looks from people in Palm Springs CA because I was wearing Bermuda type shorts and a Hawaiian type Filipino shirt. All the while flaming gays and lesbians around me were treated as normal. Also, as soon as my mom dresses up in European style clothes and puts on a nice hat, she evokes snide and caustic remarks from other people. She is not attending a convention of well dressed people, but just wants to be herself. Not easy!
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Postby momopi » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:48 pm

ladislav wrote:The Anime and other such things are also neat sub-mainstreams. They are highly compartmentalized movements and are generally after work activities. These are not really individualist things, you just follow a trend created by someone else. Kind of like sports. And yes, you are allowed to be strange within those confines. However, I remember coming from the Philippines and getting nasty looks from people in Palm Springs CA because I was wearing Bermuda type shorts and a Hawaiian type Filipino shirt. All the while flaming gays and lesbians around me were treated as normal. Also, as soon as my mom dresses up in European style clothes and puts on a nice hat, she evokes snide and caustic remarks from other people. She is not attending a convention of well dressed people, but just wants to be herself. Not easy!



Guess they don't shop at trader joe's. :(

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Postby ladislav » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:02 pm

The above colors are subdued, not bright.
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