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If anyone is interested in rescinding their SSN...

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to North America. For those looking to relocate within the US or Canada, discuss your experiences and pros/cons of each domestic region.

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Mr S
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If anyone is interested in rescinding their SSN...

Post by Mr S » January 8th, 2011, 3:20 pm

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.

momopi
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Post by momopi » January 9th, 2011, 7:33 pm

To qualify for US SS retirement benefits, you need 40 points, which can be accumulated over 10 years (4 points/year). In Western European countries, many require ~40 years of contributions to qualify for full benefits (better than the US, but you get what you paid for). Under current scheme US SS system will be in fiscal imbalance in 2017-2020, and deplete its reserves in 2050-ish unless if additional funding is added. So do the math and see what works for you and your personal situation.

My mother was a blue-collar immigrant and held salaried-jobs for about 15 years (excluding the years when she had her own business). She is retired and moved back to Taiwan. She will start collecting her SS in few years, and I think the benefit amount is $900'ish per month before deductions (medical?). It's not a lot of $$ in the US, but will pay her bills in Taiwan just fine.


Interesting read:
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/007813.html
2011 January 08 Saturday
Euro Nations Seizing Private Pensions

Think Different
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Post by Think Different » January 9th, 2011, 9:36 pm

It is my understanding that you can still collect your SS, even if you give up your US citizenship, so long as you'd already acquired the 40 points needed. A meager $800-$1000 a month is not much in the US, but can go far, if you retire to a cheaper 3rd world tropical country. If anyone knows more about that, it would be interesting to find out, since more and more Americans have had enough of the BS.

globetrotter
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Post by globetrotter » January 9th, 2011, 10:56 pm

momopi wrote: Under current scheme US SS system will be in fiscal imbalance in 2017-2020, and deplete its reserves in 2050-ish unless if additional funding is added. So do the math and see what works for you and your personal situation.


Almost no one understands Social Security and its funding model.

It's broke and it has been for 2 years. It has been experiencing fiscal imbalance since 2008. It is now adding to the debt and deficit and will for the foreseeable future. We spend more on SS than we collect.

The reserves do not exist.

Social Security and Medicare taxes are bundled with Federal Income Tax and sent in the same payment batch.

It's a tax. There is no fund. You don't have an account.

Your SS contribution was spent within 2 weeks of your paycheck on gov't programs.

The money is gone.

The 'Social Security Surplus' is bogus. Nothing. None existent. A lie.

It consists of special Treasury bonds of unique CUSIP that are in a 5-foot tall filing cabinet in an office in West Va.

The bonds are IOU's and cannot be sold on the open market. That money was all spent to balance the budget during Clinton's administration and on other ongoing programs over the past 40 years. The money is gone.

Thus in order to cash them, additional taxes, monies or US Gov't debt must be issued to pay for them.

Thus all future SS payments will require new taxes or debt and all SS checks are now directly adding to the debt and deficit.

Social Security is broke.
It is adding to existing debt.
There is no reserve.
It is already experiencing fiscal imbalance.

Assume that you will receive 70% of your current estimated check at your retirement, or less.
Also assume increased taxes but not increased benefits to pay for SS and Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare and Medicaid are going to be 10X larger a problem in 30 years, but why spoil your day?...

Mr S
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Post by Mr S » January 10th, 2011, 7:13 am

That's why I posted this cause if you know your not going to be working or living in America anymore than you don't need SS or a number anymore where the government can track you. You can just get back what you put into it and move on with your new life in which ever country you choose to now do business in.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.

Rock
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Post by Rock » January 10th, 2011, 7:35 am

Mr S wrote:That's why I posted this cause if you know your not going to be working or living in America anymore than you don't need SS or a number anymore where the government can track you. You can just get back what you put into it and move on with your new life in which ever country you choose to now do business in.


Gov can still track you through your tax return data. You will still have a tax ID and it will probably stay the same (your former SS#). If you really wanna cut ties, get a new citizenship, file and pay exit taxes if applicable to your case, then complete procedure to surrender you US passport and revoke your US citizenship.

Mr S
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Post by Mr S » January 10th, 2011, 9:12 am

I know about that, this is if someone doesn't want to be a number with the American government but still wants to retain their citizenship. I know a lot of expats that don't bother filing their taxes with the US government but they also make less then 100k a year so the government doesn't care about them.

This is just for people that would rather opt out of the system and live off of cash and out of the normal financial system we have rigged up. IT seems to be mostly be promoted by fundamentalist Christians and strict state rights constitutionalists.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.

momopi
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Post by momopi » January 10th, 2011, 9:27 am

globetrotter wrote:The reserves do not exist.


It's a $2.5T I.O.U. ;p
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/table4a3.html

European governments are not far behind on raiding pension funds:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Adam-Smith-Institute-Blog/2011/0102/European-nations-begin-seizing-private-pensions


globetrotter wrote:Assume that you will receive 70% of your current estimated check at your retirement, or less.
Also assume increased taxes but not increased benefits to pay for SS and Medicare and Medicaid.


By the time that I start collecting SS payments, I expect to receive 70%-74% of the benefit amount from current projections.

Rock
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Post by Rock » January 10th, 2011, 9:37 am

Mr S wrote:I know about that, this is if someone doesn't want to be a number with the American government but still wants to retain their citizenship. I know a lot of expats that don't bother filing their taxes with the US government but they also make less then 100k a year so the government doesn't care about them.

This is just for people that would rather opt out of the system and live off of cash and out of the normal financial system we have rigged up. IT seems to be mostly be promoted by fundamentalist Christians and strict state rights constitutionalists.


As long as you are poor and not a perceived threat (not on any lists or have done nothing to draw attention to yourself), it should be easy to become invisible.

Just remember, you really should file taxes if you have gross income of over US$3,000 I think it is, even if you owe nothing. Also, the US$90K+ exclusion only applies to earned income, not investment income. So if you have dividends, interest, and/or capital gains from your investments of even just a few thousand dollars, you will probably owe some tax on that.

Also very important. If ever have over US$10,000 sitting in overseas accounts and don't report these accounts under your name and tax number to US Treasury the following year, you are committing a criminal offense and exposing yourself to dangerous prosecution risk and draconian penalties if discovered. Some foreign banks are now automatically providing data to US government on American account holders, esp. those with accounts with value in excess of US$50,000.

adam917
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Post by adam917 » January 20th, 2011, 4:08 am

What if you have no assets or actual income? Could getting rid of your SSN mean problems if you aren't already settled outside the US?

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