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Removing Conspiracy Theory stuff from this forum

Post your suggestions and feedback for this site and movement. You can also report a problem or suggest new board topics.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Should Winston remove Conspiracy Theory stuff from this forum?

Yes
15
65%
No
8
35%
 
Total votes : 23

Postby Rock » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:12 am

Winston wrote:
Jackal wrote:
Winston wrote:Now think about this: Suppose we did what you suggested and disallowed conspiracy topics here. In effect, that would be TAKING AWAY the right of other people who want to post conspiracy related subjects. Why would you want to do that? Why would you advocate censorship? I thought you were a truth seeker by heart?

It depends on one's perspective. If a separate website served the function that the current "subform" for conspiracy theories does, then there would really be no loss of freedom. The location would just change and that would make this site more focused on international dating.

But the real question is "What do you think the main purpose of this forum is?" On your Happier Abroad main page, the subtitle is "Your guide and inspiration for international dating, living, and freedom beyond America." However, on the HA forum index, the subtitle is "Community of Global Daters, Expats, and Freethinkers Promoting Truth and Awareness."

I guess I am just trying to get the forum to better match with the mission outlined on the Happier Abroad main page. Think about it. A guy might read the main page and get all excited about international dating only to log in and find people more interested in discussing conspiracies. There is quite a disconnect between the main page and the forum.

If the main mission of this forum is to inform men about international dating, then conspiracy theories are quite irrelevant. But if the main purpose of this forum--and the secret purpose of the main page--is really to promote "truth" (according to Winston Wu's definition), then it's more understandable why the CT stuff is here because you are such a CT enthusiast. If this is the case, then perhaps this forum should not be named "HappierAbroad.com" but should be called something like "WinstonWuLand.com" instead.

I suppose that I was once foolish enough to believe that this site was mainly about international dating, but now I know that that's clearly not the case: This site is just about promoting Winston Wu's opinions and views about all subjects, and international dating is only a small part of this.

And whether things change here or not, I think I've illustrated that many other long-time members also feel irritated about the overabundance of CT stuff on this forum.


Jackal, did you read the above posts? Conspiracies are partly at least, to BLAME for the CAUSES of why we are going abroad. They are not just some out there theories. They affect all of us in our areas of life - banking system, money system, health, food, feminism, etc. So in that sense, they are relevant to our lives. Don't you see that? Don't you see the obvious connection?

This forum is not overrun by conspiracy threads. Most of the threads are still about international dating or culture, etc. You are blowing this out of proportion for some reason. Most of the new threads are not about conspiracies. Conspiracies are not good or bad, they are simply part of the learning process. Please don't marginalize them into one group.

This forum is not all about promoting my opinions. I do not even participate in most threads here. It is conglomerate of many different opinions. So I don't know where you get that.


You gotta point here even if its a big stretch - connection between CTs and happiness abroad. But why waste so much effort delving deeper and deeper into the problem as if that's going to solve anything? That's what I mean by mental masturbation. Why not focus on fleshing out the solutions? There are many issue and challenges which face the man who does move abroad - which country, how to make money or build businesses, language learning, carving out a fruitful social and dating life, how to overcome the obstacles of being unattractive and/or old, marriage and family issues, culture shock, etc. I can only speak for myself. But I come here to seek and offer-up solutions related to western men relocating and living outside of their home countries.

With all due respect Winston, I think there are better forums to go to for those who are into intellectualizing and obsessing about CTs. Your site's strength is in the area of pursuing a better social and dating life as illustrated by your own well publicized living example. The more you allow unrelated topics to dilute this theme, the less focused your site will become.
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Postby Winston » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:35 pm

Dang some of you are really dense here. There are TONS of benefits to learning about conspiracies. I just listed some of them. Conspiracies unveil mind control techniques and social engineering techniques. Understanding how they work definitely makes you MORE intellectual, not less. How can some of you not see that? Geez. It also helps SHIELD your mind from mind control as well, when you learn how they work. That's a BENEFIT, NOT USELESS.

You guys must be on very different wavelengths.

But look, a lot of subjects do not help your daily life. Astronomy contains nothing that applies to your daily life, you could say too. But learning about it definitely makes you MORE intellectual, not less. Right? Same with many subjects. They may not help you, but they make you more intellectual, not less.

Most of the stuff on History Channel and Discovery Channel are not relevant to your daily life either, but the content of their programs is of a HIGHER QUALITY than that on Fox TV for example. Don't you guys care about quality content???

If we do away with the conspiracy board, then what about the Science/Technology board? What about the Movies board? What about the History board? What about the Religion board? Are they all useless and irrelevant too? Do you see the precedent that you are setting?

Most forums have an Off-Topic board for other subjects. Why shouldn't we?

How can some of you, who are supposed to be intelligent and insightful, not see all this? My God.

One more case in point. Some conspiracy programs teach you great critical thinking skills. For example, in the film "9/11 in Plane Site" the host poses a ton of great critical questions that make sense yet the US government REFUSES to answer or address. When you call the NTSB with some of these questions, you will get a run around. They will take your number and offer to have an expert call you back, but they never do.

So, films like that can teach you how to ask great skeptical questions and teach critical thinking. Isn't that a plus? How can you guys be so dense as to not see that? Critical thinking skills makes you MORE intelligent, not less.

I could give many more examples, but you get the point. So why are you guys so dense and short-sighted?

It's all part of the awakening process. One of my advisors told me regarding this thread, that you guys have to have an INTERNAL awakening first, before you can truly understand what I'm talking about.
Last edited by Winston on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To Rock, the benefits of understanding conspiracies

Postby Winston » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:53 pm

Rock wrote:I don't mean CTs are all either true or false. I have a deep distrust for rich and powerful who run the US government and realize they've been lying and manipulating their gullible and naive citizenry for at least many decades. I admit the conditions are ripe (corrupt government and elite class) for such things to happen and have no doubt that many of our so called leaders are capable of killing millions of innocents if it furthers their agenda and they can get away with it. But I have no way of proving or disproving any of the leading CTs.

Anyway, for the sake of the argument, lets assume each and everyone of them is true. Then what? Is our dwelling on them going to change anything? Do you really believe David Icke's solutions are the answer? There are many areas for an intellectual mind to grow. CTs are not the holy grail.

Winston, I think you've lost sight of Jackal's main point - CT's are a distraction on this forum. The title of your website and the visuals on the home page and throughout suggest a theme of helping frustrated western men meet desirable women by going overseas. CTs seem quite unrelated to this theme, at least to me. I would argue that even the financial section has a lot more relevance because money is the fuel which allows us to pursue the "Happier Abroad" lifestyle.

Since you own the forum and CTs happen to be your passion, we are stuck with having them often dilute the most recent posts list. When a bunch of CT posts pop-up, it really does make your site seem unfocused and all over the map.


Well you might have a point if most posts here were about conspiracies. But they aren't. Most posts are about many things, and conspiracies are only some of them. For newbies wanting to go overseas, there are plenty of threads and a board for them to ask questions in. For people tired of the same topics over and over again and want to talk about something deeper, there is the paranormal board and the philosophy board, history board, religion board, etc. I try to make it so that there is something for everyone, at all levels.

Lots of questions about dating and living abroad are answered in many threads here. Anyone can look through them or start new ones. If some posters get tired of them or have already discussed them enough, then they may like to discuss other topics. I try to have a variety of topics here so that we can have a diverse online community.

But yes, dating and living abroad are the focus, and that's why those boards are in the top section, as you've noticed.

Again, why does it have to be one or the other? Why not have all sorts of topics? Why interfere with the natural flow of things?

If someone new here wants to talk about going abroad, there are plenty of boards and threads here for that. What is being lost exactly? Nothing is really being taken away.

Btw, David Icke does not just talk about conspiracies. He talks about soul, consciousness, how we can change our reality, etc. Lots of things. It all ties together. Here is a clip from one of his interviews where he explains how to follow your intuition and higher-self rather than your conscious mind, and what that's done in his life, and how to distinguish between instinct and knowing. Please take 15 minutes and listen to it. There's a lot of deep wisdom there that you can APPLY to your life and decisions. Listen to it and tell me that there's not useful info there. There is. Just sit back for 15 minutes and digest what he's saying.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBIdd4qYytk[/youtube]

Next part:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmbrHmhbgew[/youtube]

So you see, it's not just about conspiracies. That's just a part of it. It all ties together. You're not seeing the big picture. Listen to some of Icke's wisdom above if you didn't play the clip. Please listen to it so you'll see what I mean.

Here is a clip from the same interview where Icke explains how you can use the info he told you to CHANGE YOUR LIFE. Please listen to it so you can see a higher perspective and realize that it's not as useless as you thought.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yd_Z573p20[/youtube]

Also, there are conspiracies that directly affect us, such as conspiracies in the food and health industry. Example, suppose the claims that vaccines kill children and cause autism are true. Then, by not giving my child any more vaccines, I may have saved his life or prevented him from having autism. You see how relevant that is???
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Postby momopi » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:14 pm

Winston wrote:Momopi,
What do you mean when you said that American women are not dysfunctional? Huh?
They do not just have high standards. They also treat men badly, are selfish, narcissistic, blame their faults on others, make up reasons to argue, hate men (have you seen daytime talk shows?), are drama queens, unfeeling, do not like to cook or clean, do not care about their man's happiness, do not act feminine, and some do not even need men.
Etc. Etc.
So there are many things wrong with them, not just that they seek high socio-economic status. Where have you been???



Are you a selfish person?
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Postby Jackal » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:02 pm

Relax, Winston. Do whatever you feel like. I already made my point to those who were listening.

You and I will never agree because we both proceed from different assumptions. You assume that CTs add value to the forum and make it look more respectable, whereas I feel that they take away value from the forum and make it look less respectable because they make it seem paranoid and immature and may turn off many potential members.

If someone wants to be an intellectual, he should just get a Ph.D. and do some real independent research and not simply agree with internet videos. If someone wants to change the world, he should go out and do it and not simply post on the net.

If anyone else starts a forum where international living and dating is indeed the main focus, let me know.
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Questions about David Icke

Postby Rock » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:27 am

1. Did David Icke claim, in 1991, to be the son of God?

2. If so, do you believe his claim?
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Postby odbo » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:34 am

I agree with both Jackal and Winston
For every productive discussion on traveling abroad, there is a lot of "filler" on here that can obstruct the great posts written by ladislav, jackal, etc. But why single out "conspiracy" stuff? If you're not into discussing the shadow government, just ignore it. We'll try to confine ourselves more to that section.

For every passerbyer who will brush this forum off because he notices some "nutjob" content, there will be a passerby who says 'finally a board that gets it", and then another passerbyer who will brush us off because we're not on his level of understanding yet. This board is a lot more than where to go to find 'easy' women. It's also about us men regaining our sanity. I've learned a lot on here, please don't limit our growth by regulating where the discussion can go!

Jackal wrote:If someone wants to be an intellectual, he should just get a Ph.D. and do some real independent research and not simply agree with internet videos. If someone wants to change the world, he should go out and do it and not simply post on the net..

This is a denial response.
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Postby Jackal » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:10 pm

LinuxOnly wrote:
Jackal wrote:If someone wants to be an intellectual, he should just get a Ph.D. and do some real independent research and not simply agree with internet videos. If someone wants to change the world, he should go out and do it and not simply post on the net..

This is a denial response.

No, it's the truth based upon my observations. A person only develops a limited set of mental skills by reading about conspiracy theories, and often these people don't check the sources that were cited in CT claims and just react to the ideas emotionally. Most of the guys who read that stuff would get their asses handed to them if they ever took a graduate-level economics or physics course.
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Postby odbo » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:52 pm

First of all, most people period would get their "asses handed to them" on a college exam if they hadn't actually taken the course. No, conspiracy researchers do not learn some kind of alternate version of physics. Although a lot of them will understand the agendas and contradictions prevalent in economics much better than an orthodox student.

Secondly.. What's your point? Will proficiency in graduate-level economics & physics help one bit in averting a totalitarian world? Will it save our daughters from becoming lesbian whores, or our sons emasculated losers? Evelyn de Rothschild failed economics twice at Yale, so what!

You marginalize anyone who strays from the accepted path because they aren't satisfied with the standard lies as "those guys". How do you know what "those guys" are studying. It clearly is a denial response. "Those guys" are doing what you should be, but getting mad at others is much easier than looking at your own hypocrisy.

There already are many PhD's and there already are many people out there trying to change the world, but guess what, "No one cares!" There are far too many selfish leeches like yourself who are all too contempt to live in ignorance and make excuses for your choice, even if it inevitably means big problems in the future.

You said yourself you have hours of freetime per day. But reading certain books or even watching a few youtube videos might get you thinking introspectively. And that is very frightening. Much easier and much, much, safer to think about Obama vs Republicans, Michael Jackson, some sports team, whatever. Seeing reality might force you to actually do something about it.

I don't know you, but I know how the programming works. Doesn't feel good when I assume? Yet that's all closed-minded people do when they hear conspiracy terms, which work like triggers for past programming.
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Postby globetrotter » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:43 pm

Winston wrote: Why aren't you complaining about trashy threads here like "UCLA girls rants against Asians"?


Because conspiracies are fiction and the UCLA girl actually exists.
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Postby Jackal » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:26 am

LinuxOnly wrote:First of all, most people period would get their "asses handed to them" on a college exam if they hadn't actually taken the course.

Certainly, but in my post above, if you check, I was talking about them taking an entire course.

LinuxOnly wrote:Although a lot of them will understand the agendas and contradictions prevalent in economics much better than an orthodox student.

Perhaps. But when it comes to things like understanding statistics and making reasonable inferences, they often come up short.

LinuxOnly wrote:Secondly.. What's your point? Will proficiency in graduate-level economics & physics help one bit in averting a totalitarian world? Will it save our daughters from becoming lesbian whores, or our sons emasculated losers? Evelyn de Rothschild failed economics twice at Yale, so what!

Again you're reacting so emotionally. I was simply talking about the definition of being an "intellectual." And in my opinion, in order to be considered an intellectual, one should have some serious mental skills, do original research, and evaluate sources of information critically; and I don't see anyone in the CT community of this caliber.

This is simply my opinion. If you disagree, that's okay. It's not really important to me.

LinuxOnly wrote:There already are many PhD's and there already are many people out there trying to change the world, but guess what, "No one cares!" There are far too many selfish leeches like yourself who are all too contempt to live in ignorance and make excuses for your choice, even if it inevitably means big problems in the future.

I teach English in a poor country for a low salary and often spend extra time after work helping students prepare for English competitions and presentations. Does this sound like a leech to you?

In my opinion, teaching and volunteering in real life is much more important than posting on the internet.
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Postby Jackal » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:02 pm

Winston wrote:Now, you said that seeing threads about "Bigfoot clips" might turn off new people. First of all, Bigfoot is more in the paranormal category rather than the conspiracy category. Second, if someone is that anti-conspiracy and closed minded, would you want that person here? Most open minded people are open to hearing about them. Wouldn't you prefer open-minded types here? Isn't it better to attract more enlightened people who think freely?

Believing in CTs doesn't automatically make someone "open-minded." In fact, it can make them closed-minded if they begin trusting all the information from CT websites while distrusting all the information from any mainstream websites.

Occasionally, I'll see a video about a conspiracy which is convincing, but many of them are just exaggerated and are designed to play upon one's emotions just as much as any other mainstream form of propaganda. There's no one perfect source of information. The truth is often found by reading between the lines and by thinking about what is NOT mentioned in either mainstream videos or in CT videos.
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Postby swincor » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:18 pm

Winston wrote:- Look up "Gulf of Tonkin Incident" and tell me that governments do not fake incidents to start wars. In fact, explain why the US government badly wanted to start the Vietnam War, given the fact that it's official reason turned out to be total bullshit and nonsensical from the get go.




Winston, you have to understand that:

1) the Vietnam War took place during a time when it was expected, as a matter of course, that the US would provide military aid to nations fighting against Communism. This was not a secret at all.

2) from the beginning, the US made their intentions clear: to support South Vietnam and prevent it from being taken over by the Communist North. Again, this was not a secret from the public.

3) the US was already quite heavily involved in Vietnam even before the alleged incident. During the early 1960s, there were 1000s of US advisors training the S. Vietnamese army, along with helicopter units transporting SV troops into combat. The US Air Force, under JFK's orders, was on regular bombing missions to destroy Communist bases in South Vietnamese villages. And finally,

4) the goal of preventing a Communist takeover of South Vietnam was actually not a bad one, depending on your worldview.

Remember also that the US had already fought a major war in another Asian country: Korea. The US goal there was the same as the one in Vietnam: to prevent a pro-US regime from being taken over by the Communist north. Yet for some reason, conspiracy theorists are eerily silent on the Korean War: no theories of evil, underhanded plots by Harry Truman and his gang of cynical war-mongers. Perhaps Korea just wasn't sexy enough for the CT crowd?

Different people can look at the Gulf of Tonkin incident from different angles. You imply there were sinister, hidden motives behind the incident, directing the actions of a secret cabal. I say the motives for the incident were neither mysterious nor particularly sinister. I also say the incident was a direct result of the government's indecisive, pusillanimous approach to fighting communism in Vietnam. Had our political leaders shown more backbone and toughness early on, either communism would have been quickly thwarted in South Vietnam (the same way it was thwarted in South Korea), or the government would have washed its hands of Vietnam, letting the South fend for itself. Either way, there would have been no need for the government to manufacture a Gulf of Tonkin incident.
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Postby odbo » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:52 pm

swincor__ wrote:
Winston wrote:Look up "Gulf of Tonkin Incident" and tell me that governments do not fake incidents to start wars. In fact, explain why the US government badly wanted to start the Vietnam War, given the fact that it's official reason turned out to be total bullshit and nonsensical from the get go.

Winston, you have to understand that:

1) the Vietnam War took place during a time when it was expected, as a matter of course, that the US would provide military aid to nations fighting against Communism. This was not a secret at all.

2) from the beginning, the US made their intentions clear: to support South Vietnam and prevent it from being taken over by the Communist North. Again, this was not a secret from the public.

3) the US was already quite heavily involved in Vietnam even before the alleged incident. During the early 1960s, there were 1000s of US advisors training the S. Vietnamese army, along with helicopter units transporting SV troops into combat. The US Air Force, under JFK's orders, was on regular bombing missions to destroy Communist bases in South Vietnamese villages. And finally,

4) the goal of preventing a Communist takeover of South Vietnam was actually not a bad one, depending on your worldview.

Remember also that the US had already fought a major war in another Asian country: Korea. The US goal there was the same as the one in Vietnam: to prevent a pro-US regime from being taken over by the Communist north. Yet for some reason, conspiracy theorists are eerily silent on the Korean War: no theories of evil, underhanded plots by Harry Truman and his gang of cynical war-mongers. Perhaps Korea just wasn't sexy enough for the CT crowd?

Different people can look at the Gulf of Tonkin incident from different angles. You imply there were sinister, hidden motives behind the incident, directing the actions of a secret cabal. I say the motives for the incident were neither mysterious nor particularly sinister. I also say the incident was a direct result of the government's indecisive, pusillanimous approach to fighting communism in Vietnam. Had our political leaders shown more backbone and toughness early on, either communism would have been quickly thwarted in South Vietnam (the same way it was thwarted in South Korea), or the government would have washed its hands of Vietnam, letting the South fend for itself. Either way, there would have been no need for the government to manufacture a Gulf of Tonkin incident.

Image

swincor, with all due respect.. go jump off a bridge or something
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Postby The_Hero_of_Men » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:33 pm

If I may add my two cents to the mix...



Yes, the conspiracy stuff should be removed from this forum. The reason being? As it is, men like us are ALREADY seen as losers and the bottom of the barrel without all of the comspiracy stuff on here. Whether the comspiracies are legitimate or not, MOST people do not believe them, and if they thought we were losers and bottom of the barrel, then wait until they read this stuff.

That is why I think the conspiracy forum should be removed from this site.
Wielding the blade of evil's bane, he sealed the dark one away and gave the land light. This man, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as the Hero of Men. The man's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend...
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