Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.

View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Mobile Friendly Theme

Must See! Born on the Fourth of July

Discuss movies, films, TV shows, music, celebrities and entertainment.

Moderators: fschmidt, jamesbond

Post Reply
User avatar
Site Admin
Posts: 27632
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm

Must See! Born on the Fourth of July

Post by Winston » November 6th, 2011, 3:09 am

Wow, I just saw "Born on the Fourth of July" again on YouTube. I haven't seen it since 1990, but back then I didn't appreciate or understand it like I do now. This is one of the most moving sad touching films I've ever seen. It's the kind that will bring you to tears. It's a total must see. If everyone saw this film again, there would be no support for US wars any longer.

Directed by Oliver Stone, "Born on the Fourth of July" stars Tom Cruise, who plays a Vietnam veteran who comes to realize that the war is wrong after experiencing its horrors and pointlessness first hand. His transformation from being the most patriotic pro-war American to the most vehement anti-war protester is moving, sad, and realistic. Everyone ought to see this film.

You can see it for free on YouTube. Here is the link:

Full movie, Part 1

Here is a great review and summary of it on IMDB:

"User Reviews

'There was another war waiting for the soldiers when they returned home.'
24 October 2004 | by ilovedolby (New York State) – See all my reviews

When asked why he wanted to make another film about Vietnam after the success of 'Platoon,' Oliver Stone is quoted as saying, 'There was another war waiting for the soldiers when they returned home.' Indeed, he was right. 'Born On the Fourth Of July,' based on the book by Ron Kovic, follows Kovic's account of his experiences in Vietnam and the indifferent nation that he returned to. Although released in 1989, it holds up to the current situation that exists in Iraq now-many refer to it as the new Vietnam. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the current Iraq war, 'Born On the Fourth of July' is one of the most affecting, and important war related films of all time.

As the film opens, we find a young Kovic pretending to be a soldier with friends-a time when the idea of being a soldier was heroic since their father's had been heroes in WWII. The film then follows Kovic as a popular athlete in high school up to his recruitment as a Marine. Kovic rationalizes his reasons for joining up as Communists have missiles pointed at us now and we have to save our country from its threats.

During his time in Vietnam, Kovic sees the true nature of war. His platoon mistakenly fires upon a town where the enemy is supposedly hiding; however, they end up killing women and children. During the confusion that follows, Kovic accidentally shoots a fellow soldier-his guilt would encompass him for years to come. But when Kovic himself is wounded in a field, he is sent home paralyzed from the waist down. He spends the first few months in a veteran hospital, which in this case, was a slum. The doctors inform him that he will never be able to use his legs again, and that he no longer has the ability to have children.

When he returns to his home, he realizes that the world has changed. People protest the war, sometimes protesting against the soldiers themselves. His own family is indifferent to the war, as are his old friends. In one scene, he is told by an old friend who has become successful as a fast food manager, 'people here-they don't give a s**t about the war! To them it's just a million miles away.'

Eventually becoming disillusioned by everything in his hometown, Kovic spends a great deal of time with other veterans like himself at a resort in Mexico. Later he becomes an activist-his first public activism took place at the 1972 Republican National Convention where he was televised for exposing the reality of what soldiers endured in Vietnam, but also on the reasons why we did not belong there in the first place.

'Born On the Fourth of July' spends a good deal of time focusing on the misplaced patriotism that the politicians spewed at the public to drum up support not only for Vietnam, but the Cold War, in general. The film shows this by Kovic's own mother constantly reminding her son that he was doing the right thing by going over there and fighting and that he was in God's hands. When Kovic returns home and his disillusionment grows, he gets drunk one night and yells at his mother, 'There is no God. There is only me in this chair for the rest of my life!'

The film does stand up today just as strong as ever. With soldiers returning home from Iraq, and the constant media attention of terrorist attacks over there and seeing our own soldiers ambushed all the time, those who fight now must feel the same anger and frustration that Kovic felt year ago. It does make one wonder, when will the politicians ever truly get it! ****"
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Ukrainian/Russian Women Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne

User avatar
Site Admin
Posts: 27632
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm

Post by Winston » November 7th, 2011, 8:40 am

Check this out. I sent my movie recommendation for "Born on the Fourth of July" to a friend of mine who is a patriotic pro-war type of American. Here is his response:

"Bro - you are a nice guy but when you say "there would be no support for US wars any longer" it worries me. In Vietnam the Communist North (supported by Russia and China) was attacking the South and we were trying to help our friends (although the South was far from perfect).

Sort of like if you were attacked, I would help you. Almost all the Communist countries of that era have collapsed/changed to a capitalist model - since communism does not work and leads to mass murder. The USA won the Cold War, and instead of Russian and China being largely threatening, they are now much easier to work with.

If Taiwan is attacked, should we help them?

These movies, like advertisements, attempt to appeal to people's emotions, instead of cold hard facts.

Best - D."

Gee does that sound like a typical brainwashed American, or what? I responded with this:

"The flaw in what you say is that you assume that everything the government tells you is the total truth and it would never keep anything hidden from you or keep any secrets. That is totally false. There is abundant evidence that the government lies all the time.

Why do you think the JFK files are classified for 50 years? Because after so many decades, they know that people will forget the whole thing, and they could easily destroy their own files too. Same with the Pentagon Crash on 9/11 and the 86 videos around the Pentagon showing no plane. There is no logical reason to make those videos and file classified. None at all. "National security' usually means that they are covering up their own crimes and clandestine operations.

The US does not defend every country that is attacked. Don't you know that? Why do you think it gets involved in some wars, but not others? Think about it.

Also, why would the US elite care about communism? Freedom and true democracy is the last thing they want, cause it doesn't serve their interests. The US has a long history of exploiting other countries for their resources. Tons of intellectual scholars have documented this. An economic hit man named John Perkins wrote a book about this. You can see an hour long interview with him here:

You really got to see that film "Born on the Fourth of July". It is very realistic and factual. It does not just prey on your emotions. Stone shows you ugly truths that are real but which Americans are in denial about. It's a masterpiece, and Tom Cruise's best performance too. Trust me, you won't see a better film. It's a total must see.

You also need to do more research from freethinking scholars and insiders. There is a shitload of info that proves that wars are scams. Your assumption that the US government is an angel that never lies and tells you the full truth is totally wrong and false. How can you not realize that?


I later added:

"The film does deal with cold hard facts. The events in the film did happen in real life. Watch the film and you will see. It tells it like it is. Many Vietnam vets suffered the way Cruise's character, based on the true story of Ron Kovic, did. Just watch the film and you will see.

War film buffs say that the only scene in that film that didn't happen was when Cruise went to the family of the US soldier he accidentally killed, to apologize and confess what he did, to try to ease his guilt. In real life, Ron Kovic never did that, and other vets who accidentally killed their comrades never did that either. Would you?

That was the only fictitious scene. Other than that, everything in the film was SUPER DUPER realistic. Just watch it and see. There's no denying it.

Bro, you gotta be more objective and not dismiss things. If you do that, you'll never learn anything or find out the truth. All you will know is whatever you are told by official sources, which often lies, and which has been proven and documented."

I showed his letter to my former mental health counselor friend. Here is his response:


I think your rejoinder to him basically summed it up--it sounds like he has very little knowledge of world history or even recent history and a very dim understanding about US politics and military affairs. His explanation regarding the Vietnam War shows this, as this was actually a very complicated conflict in which, as you probably know, the US most likely staged the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident as an excuse to formally enter the war--they had already been in Saigon after the French defeat there and maybe before, since at least 1954. He makes this all sound very simple and facile and that we were the good guys and the commies were the bad guys. I own copies of all of President Johnson's White House tapes, for example, and even he knew this was a futile war which could not be won but he was afraid he would be seen as "soft" on communism and so continued it, a party line which Nixon and Kissinger, among others, also followed in a way that killed millions of innocent civilians while Laos and Cambodia were bombed flat as Pancakes. I've read that we dropped more bombs on Cambodia during that war than the total amount of bombs dropped by ALL the contesting armies of World War II, a war that took the lives of sixty million people. I do not know this man, of course, so do not know enough to say if he is brainwashed or not. If he has a through knowledge of the events leading up to the war and the way it was fought, and still can produce this simplistic "us versus them" explanation, then, yes, I would agree he is very brainwashed. If he lacks a knowledge about the war's history and the colonization of Vietnam and the French role in these matters, among many other things, some of which admittedly are speculative (such as the assassination of the Viet. President and who was responsible), then he is probably speaking more out of ignorance.

Good morning, Vietnam"
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Ukrainian/Russian Women Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne

Junior Poster
Posts: 850
Joined: January 9th, 2008, 8:21 am

Post by polya » November 7th, 2011, 11:02 am

I remember seeing this in the movie theatre in 1990. I had a good friend & we always went to the movies together then. Especially since movie tickets only costed $5 back then. What a shame no-one wants to go to the movies or do anything with average guys now, as only the top 20% of guys are wanted by girls. Well, I'm sure my day will come...
"Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal... If you allow them to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters." Cato the Elder

Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 4606
Joined: October 4th, 2007, 5:33 am

Post by zboy1 » November 8th, 2011, 4:19 am

Born on the Fourth of July is a good movie. Looking back, Ron Kovic was right in changing his beliefs about the war. I mean, look at Vietnam or China today; they're both modern capitalistic countries which we have open trade with now, as opposed to back then. I remember in one of the democratic debates in 2007, Mike Gravel was asked if the war in Vietnam was worth it: his reply, "Our soldiers died in vain!"

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Last post

Return to “Movies, Music, Celebrities, Entertainment”