Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
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Another quick one I would love your opinion on, since I am starting to appreciate the straight in the face, politically uncorrect attitude of this forum.
Some of you said they are very keen on a long term relationship based on love, mutual trust and fulfilment. Some of you are still single or dating, some others have found what they are looking for. I seem to understand that, at least for some of you, the desire to flirt and have some kind of sexual contact with other ladies may still be a burning flame even after bonding with your twins soul, whether as an official relationship, engagement or marriage. As an obvious corollary, you may find that your woman might also like to experiment a bit.
So, what's you guys' opinion on swinging (in any form, from a MMF threesome to pre-approved f**k buddies, to couple swap etc.) as a way to release some of the extra sexual tension without risking to inflict the relationships permanent damage?
And as a side question, what kind of woman would be easier to talk into exploring this kind of lifestyle? You think a Filipino woman would be too ridiculously jealous to give in to that? Latino women somewhat easier?
What do you think?
I think every man has sexual desire towards other women no matter how much they love their partner, but as to how they would react to the idea of their partner being sexually with another man varies depending on the individual. For me, it's the most alien and displeasing idea that could possibly exist to an extent no words could possibly illustrate. For others, it's totally normal. I think it mostly comes down to how one is brought up and how they learned their ideals of what a relationship should be from their parents.
One time I was at a friend's house and his girlfriend took my other friend's seat, so I said completely jokingly "anyone who gets their seat taken gets permission to squeeze that person's tits" and that friend straight away went and grabbed at my friend's girlfriend's tits. In shock, I turned to my friend thinking had that of been my woman I would have knocked him out. But to my complete shock, he broke out in laughter! Now, he was from a single-parent household and I was from a dual-parent household with traditional gender roles, so this might back up my theory. Not that it's set in stone but it might give some kind of an indication.
It really seems that in the West, deep meaningful relationships are becoming a thing of the past in favor of more casual ones. Whether that will have any detrimental affect on anything is open to interpretation. There's no doubting civilization was built on the concept of strong relationships. But now that it has already been built up and the system is strong, who knows if the state of the family unit is really all that important anymore in the grand scale of things.
Good points you make Lavezzi, still if you read interviews and reports about the swinging lifestyle, it appears that most of the people see it as a sign of cultural sophistication and open-mindedness, to be able to entertain promiscuous sexual relationships while still keeping all of their seriousness and commitment to their lifetime partner. Some of them even say that engaging in this kind of lifestyle provides an outlet for some of their sexual fantasies without compromising the bond of trust and sincerity in their relationships, and in fact removes those sexual frustrations that may end up making their sex lives boring, or even lead them to cheating.
I was quite interested to understand how that plays out for somebody who wants to still retain a "serial dater" profile while maintaining a privileged long term relationship with a woman (Winston?).
Interesting enough what you say about your friend. I for one am from an Italian double-parent household, all family values and principles included, and wouldn't find anything shocking if a close (and mind, I mean a "close and trusted") friend were to try something like that on my girlfriend or wife. But then you know, we Italians are very much used to be physical with each other and being touchy-feely is definitely not frowned upon too much. By the way, you know it's still customary especially in Southern Italy that two male friends meeting up kiss each other twice on the cheek? And, when meeting in couples, the male friend of one couple will kiss the other couple's female hi and bye on the cheek.
Btw are you Argentinian? You have some Italian blood?
I am from Ireland. Strong Catholic values were vigorously imposed on people here in all previous generations up until now. Which probably goes a long way in explaining where I inherited my viewpoints. But that cannot be said of the vast majority of the population here. Because of our horrid history with such a corrupt Catholic church, involving such atrocities as mass extortion and large-scale molestation of young boys by priests, any kind of conservative views are instantly dismissed due to association with religious teachings by an inevitably secularized people. As a result, never has there been a Country that has went from being so strongly conservative to "liberal" in such a short span of time. I couldn't be less religious, but my views on what brings me true satisfaction and that which makes for a better life for everyone overall seems to coincide with more religious/conservative standpoints.
I completely understand your view mate. And I understand the "recoil" anti-clericalism that may have come as a reaction to such dark chapters of the catholic church. I'm pretty anti-clerical myself and hate the church as the most powerful institute of mass-control and manipulation in history. Having said this, I have the greatest respect for those who have purer and more traditional views on relationships and intimacy, whether out of family upbringing or a their own rational process.
What I tend to despise is the stereotypical Italian middle-class man, who is happy to profess himself a devout Catholic to reap the social or professional or financial benefits of such an association, and then keeps on spining the wheels of corruption and illegality. Incoherence and hypocrisy is what I hate.
Interesting comment there. I like that.
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I showed my Filipina what I had written here, including this:
And in the process learned a valuable lesson while at the same time definitively answering one of your questions:
I now know that there's wanting to be totally honest with someone, and being too honest and unintentionally suggesting something that is open to being perceived as meaning something that is completely false. One should never ever tell a woman that no matter how much you love them, your fantasies of f***ing a hot Spanish woman from behind will not just disappear, because a woman can never possibly understand how male sexuality works, in that sexual and romantic feelings are completely separate. They will just relate it to how it works in their own head and take what you say as meaning something different to what it actually does.
In the United States, marrying a third world woman and then introducing her to swinging would be beyond stupid. You are paying all her expenses and financially responsible for her for ten years, even if you divorce. You are basically destroying her loyalty by sharing her with other men, and you went through a lot of expense to end up with nothing, or possibly in jail when she calls 911 as advised by her divorce attorney. Nevertheless, I met a man who was a swinger and he went to Russia to find a woman to do exactly as you say. Apparently, he was in the lifestyle and did it with his previous American wife. He went to Russia, found a model like woman he wanted, gave her 5000 dollars to prepare to come to America and never heard from her again.
MrPeabody, I think you're referring to the squallid scenario where an opportunistic young hottie, paid every cent her worth to come live with her Western hunter, is suddenly given free range to f**k any non-committed, non-paying man she desires. In that case I obviously agree with you, it would be beyond insane to even start a relationship that is already doomed to never go past the sex-for-money or sex-for-security stages.
What I meant is quite different: a full-blown and mutually agreed lifestyle, where you and the woman - who you will know has genuinely fallen in love with you, and with whom you will have developed a real bond of trust and complicity - are giving up some of your sexual taboos and opening up to experimenting with sexuality beyond the boundaries of the couple. All combinations are considered, so that neither party feels privileged or missing out - soft and hard sex, sex with two or more females, two or more males or partner swap among two or more couples.
Swinging in some form may be the ultimate test of how dead honest the couple wants to be about their own desires and fantasies, as each partner will have the experience knowing the full extent of the partner's desires and fantasies. It's true that, as Lavezzi said in his post above, women hate to be reminded about any corner of the man's sexual universe that doesn't belong to the couple's orbit. Still, with all due respect for him and those who share his views, dark matter does exist in the universe and, a striking metaphor, is thought to account for the majority of its latent energy. Plus, I think it's no measure of maturity in the relationship for the woman to hide her head under the sand and never know it, and for the man to avoid any chance to speak up.
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