Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.



View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


The Myth and Fallacy of Social Skills (with Women)

Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.

Moderators: fschmidt, jamesbond

Re: The Myth and Fallacy of Social Skills

Postby ExpeditionSailor » May 22nd, 2012, 5:09 am

PrisonerOfLife wrote:American men are told that they need to improve their social skills because frivolous American women reject them.

The term "social skill" means nothing to AW since they have men doing all the socializing for them without reciprocating it in any way. Any man who's been on a date and asked a woman 8 questions in a row (answered all by short-winded responses) and not have the female ask you a single question back knows exactly how the paradigm works.

It's similar to when people use the term "man up"; it's completely trivial because nobody can tell females to "woman up".


AW are not capable of reciprocating in any meaningful way. If they're not completely sociopathic, then they are totally solipsistic. I've had that happen to me over and over again any time I've been 'lucky' enough to date an AW. I will ask many questions about them, but they never ask me any questions about me.
ExpeditionSailor
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 219
Joined: January 28th, 2011, 5:33 am




Check out our Dating Sites and HA International Romance Tours!



Re: The Myth and Fallacy of Social Skills

Postby sushiman » May 22nd, 2012, 6:26 am

PrisonerOfLife wrote:because nobody can tell females to "woman up".


Actually I tell women to "woman up". ;)

Not those exact words but the same meaning.
sushiman
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 324
Joined: March 21st, 2011, 6:56 pm
Location: Seoul

Re: The Myth and Fallacy of Social Skills

Postby colibri » September 29th, 2012, 7:40 am

PrisonerOfLife wrote:American men are told that they need to improve their social skills because frivolous American women reject them.

The term "social skill" means nothing to AW since they have men doing all the socializing for them without reciprocating it in any way. Any man who's been on a date and asked a woman 8 questions in a row (answered all by short-winded responses) and not have the female ask you a single question back knows exactly how the paradigm works.

It's similar to when people use the term "man up"; it's completely trivial because nobody can tell females to "woman up".


every time i read about this suposedly rigid american dating scenes makes me wonder if u guys are making up allt his :P ....or maybe overreacting a lil ..sorry -_-
If God is watching us, the least we can do is be entertaining.
User avatar
colibri
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 157
Joined: December 12th, 2011, 4:53 am
Location: AZTLAN

Re: The Myth and Fallacy of Social Skills

Postby Falcon » October 1st, 2012, 6:32 am

colibri wrote:every time i read about this suposedly rigid american dating scenes makes me wonder if u guys are making up allt his :P ....or maybe overreacting a lil ..sorry -_-


Yes, for outsiders, it can be hard to believe. And vice versa (guys here reading about foreign dating scenes). But there are thousands of other threads about this issue, so what can I say ... :P
User avatar
Falcon
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1827
Joined: November 7th, 2011, 12:59 am

Postby Winston » October 1st, 2012, 7:29 am

Billy wrote:no I think social skills are very important anytime and anywhere. It´s like being able to read the mind of the people. This is a clear advantage. It´s like you know in advance what will happen. You can create a big social circle through this. Don´t forget you also have a higher chance to know who you are. :)


You miss the point of this post. Yes people skills are a good thing to have. However, there is a false myth in America that a man needs good social skills to get women. Therefore, when a man with good social skills and people skills tries to talk to a woman with NO social skills at all, or conversation skills for that matter, the blame is falsely pitted on the man as not having social skills when the actual truth is that the woman had no social/conversation skills. Thus the blame is FALSELY pitted against the man. It's a big lie and shell game. And when analyzed logically, it makes no sense. It's just another way that liberals find an excuse to blame and demean males.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 24541
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm

Re: The Myth and Fallacy of Social Skills

Postby Winston » October 1st, 2012, 7:30 am

colibri wrote:
PrisonerOfLife wrote:American men are told that they need to improve their social skills because frivolous American women reject them.

The term "social skill" means nothing to AW since they have men doing all the socializing for them without reciprocating it in any way. Any man who's been on a date and asked a woman 8 questions in a row (answered all by short-winded responses) and not have the female ask you a single question back knows exactly how the paradigm works.

It's similar to when people use the term "man up"; it's completely trivial because nobody can tell females to "woman up".


every time i read about this suposedly rigid american dating scenes makes me wonder if u guys are making up allt his :P ....or maybe overreacting a lil ..sorry -_-


Many foreign women tell me that they find it hard to believe what I say about American women. But I always swear to them that if they come to America and experience it all themselves, they will say "Oh I see what you mean now..."
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
 
Posts: 24541
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm

Postby Falcon » October 1st, 2012, 7:39 am

Colibri has actually been to the U.S. But Latino enclaves are quite unlike the anti-social suburbs, and brief stays in those areas won't really reveal anything about the social dynamics of the world outside the enclaves.

Winston wrote:Many foreign women tell me that they find it hard to believe what I say about American women.


See the first story in http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=15815 ... "[She must have felt] as if I were talking about space aliens."
User avatar
Falcon
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1827
Joined: November 7th, 2011, 12:59 am

Postby Falcon » October 1st, 2012, 8:08 am

Back to the original topic.

If a decent-looking guy still has trouble interacting with both men and women in several different countries, then this could be actually be attributed to poor social skills. But many guys have excellent, above-average social skills which help them succeed with easily getting friends (even female friends), jobs, connections, and plenty of other necessities, but just not dates.

In the U.S., I have no trouble getting to meet new people and starting up lively, interesting conversations right away. I'm naturally quite friendly, and random people that I have just met usually enjoy talking to me, getting my contact info, and so on. So do many people on HA. But we're still here on this forum.

There are millions of highly functional - if not overachieving - but DATELESS young incel Western men, with absolutely nothing wrong with them. Despite being excellent hubby and bf material, they have never gone on dates before. Then once some of them go abroad, they are shocked by the "zero to rock star" effect (quoting Winston's phrase).

I actually find it easy to make female friends in the U.S. But things never go beyond casual friendship, and this certainly is not because of poor social skills or whatever other shaming tactic says. The phenomenal attention and flirting I got from girls in Oaxaca, Mexico, and other places, stand in complete contrast to the strictly platonic interactions I've always had with California women.

All demands some serious explanation, and certainly not by the usual shaming tactics. :P
User avatar
Falcon
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1827
Joined: November 7th, 2011, 12:59 am

Postby momopi » October 7th, 2012, 9:23 pm

Winston wrote:You miss the point of this post. Yes people skills are a good thing to have. However, there is a false myth in America that a man needs good social skills to get women. Therefore, when a man with good social skills and people skills tries to talk to a woman with NO social skills at all, or conversation skills for that matter, the blame is falsely pitted on the man as not having social skills when the actual truth is that the woman had no social/conversation skills. Thus the blame is FALSELY pitted against the man. It's a big lie and shell game. And when analyzed logically, it makes no sense. It's just another way that liberals find an excuse to blame and demean males.



There's a girl in a room behind a closed door. You need the social skills to open that door. The girl inside is not guarenteed to like you. Social skills equate to the keys to open that door, it's not a certificate of guarentee on getting laid. If you did not have the keys, then you wouldn't have been allowed inside and given the chance to make an impression. You can also equate social skills with the size, quality, and complexity of a person's social network.
momopi
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4745
Joined: September 1st, 2007, 5:44 am
Location: Orange County, California

Postby publicduende » October 7th, 2012, 11:39 pm

Falcon wrote:Back to the original topic.

If a decent-looking guy still has trouble interacting with both men and women in several different countries, then this could be actually be attributed to poor social skills. But many guys have excellent, above-average social skills which help them succeed with easily getting friends (even female friends), jobs, connections, and plenty of other necessities, but just not dates.

In the U.S., I have no trouble getting to meet new people and starting up lively, interesting conversations right away. I'm naturally quite friendly, and random people that I have just met usually enjoy talking to me, getting my contact info, and so on. So do many people on HA. But we're still here on this forum.

There are millions of highly functional - if not overachieving - but DATELESS young incel Western men, with absolutely nothing wrong with them. Despite being excellent hubby and bf material, they have never gone on dates before. Then once some of them go abroad, they are shocked by the "zero to rock star" effect (quoting Winston's phrase).

I actually find it easy to make female friends in the U.S. But things never go beyond casual friendship, and this certainly is not because of poor social skills or whatever other shaming tactic says. The phenomenal attention and flirting I got from girls in Oaxaca, Mexico, and other places, stand in complete contrast to the strictly platonic interactions I've always had with California women.

All demands some serious explanation, and certainly not by the usual shaming tactics. :P


I tend to agree with the above. Social skills will only take you a certain point. If a woman met in a club is in the mood for a young masculine stud and you're a handsome, boy-faced blond angel, chances are your attractiveness might not even cut with her. If a woman met in a social event or sitting in a coffee shop with a book is looking for an interesting conversation, even the most mediocre looking man with some social skill is quite likely to strike a successful approach with her.

Over with the initial approach, whether seconded by looks and body language, or social skills, you actually need to make a genuine connection with the woman to ensure the conversation goes on, possibly as far as a date. Social skills may well be important, but even more important is to be yourself, have an intellectual life and an intellectual honesty.
User avatar
publicduende
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2942
Joined: November 30th, 2011, 6:20 pm

Postby mattyman » October 8th, 2012, 12:16 am

I think that a lot of people equate social skills with trying to impress, as opposed to building rapport and comfort.

It's only natural for someone who has not had much success to question the quality of their social skills and to believe that they need to be 'fixed'. After all, this is the rhetoric that's spread by the PUA community. Many fall into the trap of believing that they are not up to standard and that they have to learn special 'skills' in order to woo a potential partner. I personally think that this sort of thinking is harmful.

If a woman met in a social event or sitting in a coffee shop with a book is looking for an interesting conversation, even the most mediocre looking man with some social skill is quite likely to strike a successful approach with her.

Over with the initial approach, whether seconded by looks and body language, or social skills, you actually need to make a genuine connection with the woman to ensure the conversation goes on, possibly as far as a date. Social skills may well be important, but even more important is to be yourself, have an intellectual life and an intellectual honesty.


Absolutely, totally agree. I'll add that being able to empathise and build rapport is very important, as well as being sincere and genuine (well, at least for women that value that).

I think if anything, social skill difficulties are the result of being in a toxic environment, that can erode someone's self-esteem, and/or hold back their social development, that doesn't allow them to form the freidnships and relationships that equip them for what they need.
The problem is some men are so damaged by their unhealthy upbringing that they go to those countries and still have troubles cause they never learned how to relate to women as an actual man should.

I agree.

Even so, more positive environments can be beneficial to people who are in that boat.
mattyman
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 270
Joined: September 12th, 2010, 11:15 pm

Previous

Return to Dating, Relationships, Foreign Women

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest