Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
The key is to steer clear of the "logical" women, the corporate ladder climbers, the politicians, the bread winners, the Presidents/CEOs/managers, etc. A woman would have to completely dismiss her femininity to be any of these things. Give me a natural woman who doesn't have a need to compete with men any day.
"Manginas grovel. Men travel." - me (04/17/2012)
"I used to be one of those men who believed that men are better than women at everything. Then I stood corrected!
Women are better than men at... getting fat." - me (02/24/2013)
Black women suck at life.
Yeah. I've noticed that too. Women are sheeple mostly. Or maybe it's just that they're really afraid of other women and how they will be perceived. They know that women are extremely passive aggressive and gossipy. And they're afraid to violate the social order of things, while men always tend to have disagreements and bump heads here and there. So for men it's about standing up for who you are and what you believe in and all women care about is saving face and not letting their little reputation get tarnished since they know they can't compete with men, predatory women, queen bees and everybody else up in this joint. Various social cliques etc.
Jusqu'au bout a tout prix..
No you missed my point. I'm not talking about women who know your occupation, background and degree of success. I'm talking about women you might meet at a get together or party or outing who just have a polite casual chat with you. They aren't going to know anything about you or how successful you are. They will just know about you from what you say. I'm talking about this type of casual exchange, not women who know your occupation and life history and degree of success. You are reading too much into it. Casual polite conversations aren't going to reveal how successful you are, unless of course, you say you are successful.
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
When we say nonconformist, do we use a very lenient, almost meaningless definition of 'not following convention', or do we use a stricter, more meaningful definition of 'not following the principles and dictates of the socio-economic system you live under, which you consider to be inhuman, unjust, detrimental to human community and happiness and so on etc.
Let's not mince our words here, when we say 'successful nonconformist' what we really mean is a nonconformist with lots of money. Now a rich non-conformist is pretty rare. Unless he was born into wealth, inherited wealth, won the lottery etc.
Actually the idea of a successful nonconformist in this system is almost an oxymoron. A nonconformist does not believe in the system he lives, finds it oppressive and is therefore unlikely to obey the rules, betray his principles, all of which are generally required in order to be a successful corporate wage slave in today's society.
Now people like to cite examples of so called 'nonconformists' like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. I don't consider them nonconformists at all. Okay yes they dropped out of school and were extremely successful entrepreneurs. But is entrepreneurship then the mode in which a nonconformist successfully rebels against the system? No. Below are 2 reasons.
1. If by being a successful entrepreneur, a nonconformist becomes successful, then this nonconformist would have had no reason to be against the socio-economic system he lived under in the first place because this socio-economic system did provide an avenue for him to pursue his entrepreneurship. So how can entrepreneurship be a nonconformist's successful rebellion against the system when the system does not in anyway reject or prohibit entrepreneurship?
Therefore if we define 'nonconformity' as rebellion against the prevailing social-economic system, successful entrepreneurship cannot be be an expression of nonconformity.
2. Building multinational corporations to the levels that Steve Jobs and Bill Gates did is not what non-conformists who are against the prevailing socio-economic system do. In order to build it up to the behemoths they have become today, they would have had to mimic the traits of all the typical white collared corporate conformist slaves in the world today, albeit much more successfully and more extremely. You don't build up a behemoth company by valuing freedom from the office cubicle and opposing hierarchical corporate structures, rejecting corporate politics etc.
Most importantly, you don't build up a behemoth MNC by being anti-compulsive consumerism and commercialization, ills that are so endemic in developed countries today..
You also don't build up a behemoth tech MNC by being ideologically against the dehumanizing nature of technology-screen obsessed culture - of how people spend so much time on computers and cable TVs and so called 'friends' on facebook, or are glued to their smart-phones, but don't know any of their neighbors anymore, lack community, are full of superficial acquaintances but no real friends etc.
Building a behemoth of a multi-national entity that is at the forefront of producing machines and devices that spearhead and perpetuate this soulless excessively mediated techno-culture is not an example of non-conformity to the the prevailing social-economic system as well.
In fact a genuine non-conformist, if we go by the strict definition of being against the prevailing social-economic culture and system we live under, will find it nearly impossible to be 'successful' in the sense of accumulating a great amount of wealth at all, simply because he isn't going to conform and be a corporate wage slave who spends most of his life in a cubicle. He realizes that that is slavery.
So yea it's easy to say 'successful non-conformist' but the truth is the definition of success used in this context would require the nonconformist to become a conformist in order to attain.
This is of course different if we define 'success' as being successfully non-conformist, meaning successful in living by the principles he believes in, as opposed to that of the oppressive social-economic system he lives under. Then by being a nonconformist he would be a success in his own eyes and in the true spirit of nonconformity.
Is (some) women's attraction to wealthy men based on the material benefits they wish to acquire from them? Or is it the high social status these men have as a result of being wealthy which attracts them?
In a polite, casual conversation, such as one you might have at the dinner table with people that youâ€™ve just meet, the proper etiquette is to keep the topic light and engaging. When conversing with someone who knows less than you do on a topic, do not lead the conversation to where the person cannot follow (engage, not lecture). Do not speak continuously, but listen and speak in turn. Do not monopolize the conversation or interrupt another speaker. Shine in the art of conversation, but not too brightly. Concentrate on the voice and delivery rather than the content.
Heavy topics, such as matters of war, politics, religion, philosophy, your views on conformism and social norms (programming?) should be reserved for after-dinner, when the men retires to the cigar room, or the modern equivalent â€œman caveâ€. This would be the time and place where you can discuss social restrictions and why it's inappropiate to do this and that.
When meeting a girl for the first time or going out on the first date, the conversation should be focused on her and not you. Seek to create positive kimochii (気持ち), which is a combination of feeling, sensation, mood, & chemistry. Good topics include fun vacations, backpacking trips, hiking in the mountains, her family, what she likes in men, her personal tastes, and what she does for fun. Attraction between the sexes is more bio-chemical and emotional, and less of logical or intellectual.
Last edited by momopi on Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not saying this isn't perfectly good advice, but for me I would forget ALL preconceived notions and let intuition take over entirely, this is where skill in social interaction comes from either way. When I go out on a date, I have no idea what I'm going to talk about and I completely depend on it flowing in the moment. If you're truly confident, you can say almost anything and get a positive response.
Who says the non-conformist has to be Bill Gates to be successful in the context of "success" here? I don't think anyone meant
mufti-billionaire when they meant success, I think they meant "reasonably comfortable" One man's non-conformity might be the next generation's proven success for that matter. A non-conformist may easily use the system to get what he needs without being a cubicle slave. The trading world, which I know quite a bit about, has many non-conformists who use the system to harvest cash,
Their personal lives are in the less than 1% category, live offshore, come and go as they please, make good money, live as they wish.
Even their trading theory is often highly unusual, but because of their unusual perspectives, they see markets differently than most, allowing them to harvest opportunity. There is quite a bit of middle ground between bohemian permanent couch surfer and being a corporate titan.
My own trading theories are unique, politically incorrect, and have been spot on all year, up the the latest hour. I have never been in a cubicle in my life, and write this from a small mango farm in the southern Philippines. The only traders I am in contact with are two very unusual quants who are some of the most bizarre guys around.
Non-conformity may mean success when the other 99% are lemmings headed off the cliff to destruction.
Excellent and accurate post (especially paragraph #2) Momopi. Those that are socially akward can learn a lot from this info. The faster a person starts talking about 1. non-comformity 2. social norms and how you don't fit in 3. conspiracy theories, etc the faster she will lose interest in you.
Read "How to Win Friends and Influence People." Great read. In that book, Carnegie points to a study in which they determined the number one word used in phone conversations. That word was : I. People love to talk about themselves and they are not always interested in you. So if you are in a casual conversation with a woman or on a date, it's a brilliant idea to talk about her almost exclusively. Keep asking questions about her and she'll probably rattle on for an hour without getting bored.
Now this is a very difficult task for those that are self-absorbed ego-maniacs. They want to jump in and start talking about themselves and their topics of interest. Bad move if you are trying to impress a lady.
I've gone on dates before and I've used this tactic. While it's extremely artificial, the other person rarely sees thru what you are trying to do. Instead she'll walk away with a smile on her face thinging, "gee this guy is really interested in me and he's a great conversationalist and listener." I think I'll go on that second date with him.
Momopi is correct. You may NEVER be able to discuss your interests with her. It's best to keep the heavy/unconventional talk for your friends and/or forum members that share your similar interests.
This advise is not what many of you want to hear but it's important stuff.
Last edited by pete98146 on Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Conformism mans to follow social or group norms. Entrepreneurs who drop out of college to start their own company do not follow social norms of graduating college and getting a job. Does a successful entrepreneur contribute to maintaining the socio-economic norms by creating job opportunities and putting more college graduates into cubicles? Yes. But so does an artist who lives in the mountain and comes down every few months to sell his/her pottery at art fairs. The artist rents a booth from the landlord or organizer, sells his products, and then uses the money to buy goods and services from local retailers.
If we were to define a word in such a way that it can no longer be used, then the word becomes irreverent. The English language already has a large pool of words with vague definitions, not to mention autantonym/contronyms and polysemes (â€œcourtâ€ as in courting a lady or going to a court of law?â€). Consider the word â€œauthorityâ€ can mean someone who is vested with powers to govern, or someone who is a recognized expert on a specific subject. A police officer is an authority of law, but he is not an authority on law.
Iâ€™m willing to use the word â€œnon-conformistâ€ on people like, my fishing buddyâ€™s brother in law, who used to work as a dolphin trainer in Hong Kong (Marine Park?). The socially acceptable norm wouldâ€™ve been for him to go to college, graduate, and get a job or inherit his fatherâ€™s business. But no, he wanted to swim with the dolphins. Does the Marine Park contribute to existing socio-economic & entertainment norms? Yes. But if the only son of a Chinese family goes home and tells his parents that he wants to quit college and become a dolphin trainer, Iâ€™d think most Chinese parents would choke on their tea at that point.
He did go on to become a successfully employed dolphin trainer, and from what Iâ€™ve heard from the sister, he was quite popular with girls who went from slipping around the pool to slipping into his bed. To a girl, â€œdolphin trainerâ€ is exciting and exotic, plus being a performer he had to maintain his body image. Swimming is the only common exercise where all muscles of the body are used, and he was probably in great shape.
However, if he had been a non-conformist couch potato, then heâ€™d have been far less appealing to women. In terms of attraction, who you are, and how you say it is often more important than what you say. A good looking young man in great shape working as dolphin trainer speaking about not conforming to â€œregular jobsâ€ is more appealing to women than an unattractive & unemployed man who delivers the same message.
I strongly disagree. I told my conservative-natured Korean girlfriend within 5 or 6 times of seeing her about how I've:
-Never had a girlfriend before.
-Have had sex with 9 prostitutes.
-Have left school over 3 years ago and have been living at home, leeching off government social welfare payments and my parents with zero plans to ever go to college or get a job.
-How I only have one pair of clothes and rarely shower (twice a week), etc.
Also when she stayed over at my house for a weekend I showed her several David Icke videos (the guy who believes reptilians control the world). I constantly talk to her about spirituality, non-conformity and societal norms and how I don't fit in.
Yet despite all this she says she loves me and the relationship is going better in all areas than I could have ever imagined.
Commenting on Lavezziâ€™s earlier reply, if the flow of conversation is good and if the girl already has interest or knowledge in the area to follow the conversation, then itâ€™s probably OK. A good rule to follow is that you should be engaging and not lecturing. On a date, do not lead a conversation to where she cannot follow, unless if you enjoy awkward silence in response.
After you get to know the person better, you can discuss more serious topics, especially if youâ€™re interested in building a long-term relationship with the person. If the person is not as knowledgeable on the topic, it's probably not a good idea to open the conversation with â€œâ€¦the salariats of today are but replacements for the proletariat working class in the capitalist society, without ownership to means of production and can only subsist to sell their labor, dreaming of the illusions of becoming petite bourgeoisâ€¦â€ That may result in an epic failure.
A better opener would be, â€œI didnâ€™t feel like I was going anywhere working at that job, living month to month and not being able to save enough to do what I wanted.â€
Last edited by momopi on Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
That's good but I think she would be in the minority...that or you have a 10 inch pecker BTW, congrats and I hope your relationship stays strong!
The real secret is, if you can make her laugh at any time nothing else matters, end of story. It's pretty superficial, but human interaction is that way by nature, especially romantic relationships. It is great to have companionship and intimacy though.
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