Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
I will put down some drawbacks on dating abroad or dating foreign women abroad
1) even though there are almost 200 countries in the world there is only small number of countries where men end up dating
2) Philiphines seems to be number one, followed by Thailand, Russia/Ukraine, etc , but these are main players(notice only poor countries are good for dating, 3rd and 2nd world countries)
3) most guys end up with poor girl from a poor family, richer girls dont want to associate with you so you end up dating the poorest of the poor;
4) you almost certainily get assigned role of santa claus by defult, you are seen as provider to you gf and/or her family; you end up paying for everything, meals, drinks,bills,etc..she is princess and you want p***y right
5) economics is the main reason and driver;
6) many men end up with some kind of prostitute, semi pro, professional dater WITHOUT even knowing it(westerners are so naive and desperate they cant see shit besides you dont expect girl to admit that she was/is prostitute )
7) men are delusional to think that girls abroad prefer them over local guys, only poor ones are after foreigners or expired ones coz local guys anywhere in the world are MUCH more pickier than westerners
(women that westerner end up with is considered junk, for example 28 yo Russian women is too old by Russian standards, British would kill for it, and so on)
I know this might no be what folks want to hear but I believe this assesment is accurate enough to give average guy in the west an idea of whats going on in dating abroad.
Please feel free to add more points that support my opinion, it is about downsides of dating overseas
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These points are often true for those who end up in the popular mail-order bride destinations. Thanks for sharing.
For those of us have been to the more atypical destinations, or are the more atypical ones ourselves, things would be different. For instance:
- Rock and Xiongmao have dated upper-middle class Chinese women.
- Me, a young guy going to places in China and Mexico where most foreigners have never heard of
- Think Different in Italy, Jackal in Hungary, BAW in India/Nepal (hehe)
You'll know when you meet the right foreign woman because there won't be any downside for you at all, that's been my experience.
Women that grow up in middle class and wealthy families have a divorce rate five times higher than women from poor families. Women from poor families should always be your target dating demographic without exception. They have more common sense, life skills and most importantly their minds aren't full of poison.
I used think foreign women only wanted men for money, this is not always true. I don't have any money and my Filipina wanted to marry me. A few days ago I was in the hardware store when I spotted a Filipino guy about sixty yrs old with a hot young Filipina about twenty five yrs old. If she wanted to, she could easily find a guy her own age but she didn't.
A word of caution, its a good idea not to live close to your foreign wife's family if possible. Its likely, your girlfriend or wife will be the only foreigner you can trust with your money. Her family will likely take advantage of your generosity if they think they can which can cause "problems".
If you spent most of your life around western women you'll be paranoid of all women as a result, I know I used to be.
i am not talking about exceptions here, of course there will always be isolated cases where man finds rare gem but in general that dont apply to majority of people.
AW and WW are more independent than women in poor countries so they can survive without men, easily, so to think that AW want men for money is complete BS. I was dating western women where costs were shared equally and in some cases they used to pay more than I did,now how often will that happen when you date abroad??
I dissagree that men should date only from the pool of poor women, its silly, you just selling yourself short and it doesnt make you feel like a hero by going to some miserable place and dating ghetto looking girl who cant afford a chesseburger.
You are suppossed to date in your own league or better if you can or else there is no sense of achievement.
These remaraks about dating abroad apply to vast majority of guys who go foreign.
Ask father of dating abroad Winston Wu and you will see that my observations are very much on the spot
It doesn't have to be that way. If you make a conscious choice, you can focus on and pursue only educated girls from middle class families and above. Of course, its much easier in some countries than others.
People don't always fall into neat boxes either. For example, my last gf here in Taiwan is from a blue collar background but her family owns several multi-million dollar buildings in New Taipei City free and clear plus private banking accounts and a thriving cash cow business. But they started out with very modest means and built the businesses up from scratch. So culturally, they would not fit in with Taiwan's urban elite. But I've dated other girls here who do.
Generally, in middle class centric medium to high income countries, its pretty easy to find educated girls and avoid very poor ones. I would say its best to avoid both extremes. When I worked, I had some exposure to the uber rich and in many ways, a lot of them are just as bad as some of the poor low class people if not worse.
In Brazil or certain parts of Latin America or Caribbean, its not easy to gain access to wealthy people. But if you develop your career in one of these places out of uni and/or integrate culturally, dating upper middle class and above is doable and I've seen gringos do it. With time, I think a foreigner can come to be accepted pretty much as a Brasilian or Domincana for example.
If you come abroad as some sort of retiree who is older, then of course, you are going to have to cut compromises since you will probably wanna date women much younger than yourself. But in that scenario, its not really not so bad to date lower class girls in exchange for a modest amount of help.
The biggest problem I see with Anglo foreign guys overseas in general is their tendency to take the path of least resistance - to go for the easiest and fastest method of getting a steady gf or just getting laid. The higher quality girls - in terms of looks, background, education, etc. - usually require a lot more work and persistence. So you come to country X and you're thrilled to find out you are pretty popular with certain girls whereas back home, you were ignored by 100% of them. Are you going to give in to the easy temptation to date around and perhaps settle into a relationship with the ones who fall into your lap from the early days. Or are you going to consciously and strategically seek out prospects you are truly most interested in and focus all your efforts on them in a longer term sense? Most Anglo guys just don't seem to have the patience for the latter, esp. when they feel like a kid in a newly discovered candy store.
+infinity! ...what the fcuk he said!!!! ) Here, you have been saying what I have been saying as a beastly rant. Anglos don't want to learn languages and want women built like little boys hence why the Philippines is annoyingly popular.
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Well if nothing else, attractive niches and handicaps are available for certain guys I believe. For example,
1. Some German and other white European women are drawn by black guys, especially American ones. And no, they're not all white trash. Some are quite hot and classy.
2. A decent looking 5'8" white American guy who goes to Manila and focuses on upper middle class professional types will be considered a lot taller and more attractive there than among his peers Stateside. I think a lot of local girls find it desirable to mix-up genes for the next generation as many of the most attractive and richest people there are of mixed heritage. A white person still may be desired by some girls from well-off local families for various reasons.
3. In LatAm, some societies are strongly structured along class lines with highest classes tending to be of predominantly light skin. So in the minds of some, it might bode well for next generation to end up with white guy. Moreover, I've never been to Peru but have been told several times that men with blond hair and blue eyes tend to be quite popular. Ditto for Amazon region of Brazil. Different is often exotic and attractive.
4. I know a couple of westernized but fairly average looking Indian guys who went to Europe - one to Scandinavia and the other Siberia. Both were duds with women in their respective home countries. The one who went to Siberia was only there 3 weeks and managed to hook up with a couple of attractive girls and got all kinds of attention. The one who went to Scandinavia was there longer and managed to bed several girls of his dream - 8-9s in his book! No money or P4P was involved in either case. They just oozed with exotic appeal to many of the local girls.
I read these type of threads and more and more shake my head and laugh. You do understand that by definition if you go to any 3rd world country you will more than likely end up with a poor girl, right? That is simple mathematics. If 90% of the people in PI. Thailand or any similar country are poor that is most likely what you will find. If you need middle class or wealthy - stick to the 1st world. It's delusional to travel to the third world and require a young, hot and willing girl, who BTW, also has tons of cash.
OTOH, many guys (myself included) do date middle class foreign girls. But lets face it, our definition of middle class and theirs is vastly different. My former gf has a middle class beaurocrat for a dad. That might have meant he made the equivalent of $1000/month. That's damn good in PI but poor here.
As to the notion that economics is the driver - of course it is! For women the world over economics is always a big driver. Middle class American women do not dream of marrying homeless bums - they dream of marrying men more successful than they are. This is one of the problems with dating in the 1st world. Women are still drawn to men who can lead them; men who are more successful than they are. As the women become more financially successful that becomes more difficult to find and we get the dynamic of women with impossibly high standards.
My question (and it is more rhetorical than really looking for an answer) is why the issue over the financial "class" of women abroad is so important. I believe it comes down to this: in the 1st world we make the silent assumption that anyone who has half a brain and any motivation to work can be at least middle class. So an impoverished person (even if physically good looking) is looked down upon. In the 3rd world a woman can be poor and yet still be good looking, have an education, and have good ethics and moral character. By the same token a middle class girl can be a crass gold digger with poor character.
I know many people who expat abroad and then insist that they have to live a Western lifestyle: same food, housing, medical, etc. And when that is difficult to find or costly - they complain. The same is true of women. If you need a spoiled, middle class skank, look no further - there are plenty here.
Reasonable caution with women overseas is wise of course. I have been through over 60 countries and now live in Mindanao Philippines with years of experience, the good and bad. First of all, and most important is the "fact" that Western women are not so motivated by money, and when the most likely divorce comes up, they are not likely to "take him for everything he has" and they are unlikely to want to take your house and part of your future earnings for years, while being totally supported by the courts ...nothing like that at all!
Now for the Philippines, a man can only date (court is the more accurate word, Americans are so brain locked in their thinking.)
the "poorest of the poor"? You are just plain silly and plain wrong. The vast majority of Filipinos are poor or somewhat poor. The middle class types are not more than about 10%- some places less. The poorest of the poor are squatters and shantytown dwellers. Most are somewhere in between- poor by American standards, but have enough to eat, kids in school, and some basic appliances in the house are likely. There are many millions of women in this category, and yes, some of them do expect you to be Santa Claus, especially if you put on the "High Roller" act.
Divorce is not legal in the Philippines, so girls tend to be pretty serious about this stuff. And yes, a huge number would not like to marry a local as many of them have a deserved reputation for various kinds of abuse, drunkenness, gambling, wife-beating are extremely common, and not just among the very poorest. Ah yes, in a country with no divorce, that is just what every girl dreams of!
Sure, some men are stupid and marry a bar girl...but most Filipinas as not bar girls. There is not some huge middle class avoiding westerners- there is not a very large middle class in at all, and they tend to be insular, even with many other Filipinos. They do not want to risk risking their hard won status by having their daughter marry badly or having her marry some monger westerner. Many foreign men in the Philippines seem to be whore mongers, so what kind of reputation do you think they have?
It might be that I and my wife are exceptions- but that is likely due to my having spent a lot of time here, so I was in touch with a different strata sometimes. She comes from an educated family, her father is a mining engineer and my wife is a civil engineer, though still in her 20's.
No pat answers I think, but lack of caution will make you a fool wherever you might be...
Another reason why Western guys end up with a bar girl is because that is all they know back home- s'luts who have been through 10-20- or more men. And who are also older and uglier. So they bring their standards to the new country- she is working in a bar and only slept with 5 guys for money and she is 19! Wow, back home non prostitutes have slept with 20-30 guys already and they would not give me time of day and they are 30 and treat me like dirt. Boy am I lucky and I have not been laid in 4 years. I'll marry her in a jiff.
The M.O.B. in Ukraine guys basically go an arranged marriage route and there is nothing wrong with that. Except that most Anglo men are brainwashed that they are saviors and that all those women want to do is to emigrate to the West. They have no appreciation for those cultures and no interest in them at all. Another thing is that a lot of women that these guys marry in Ukraine are ethnically Russian who are now living in a "foreign" country but who had been imported there decades or a century ago so they still have a friendly communal Russian attitude to people. They just have no Russian citizenship. Pure 'Ukrainian' Ukrainians are stand offish and nationalistic -mistrustful of outsiders and of each other as well. They are very hard to date.
As far as the Philippines, I would pick it over Thailand in spite of everything. 'Most' mainstream Thais do not speak English and do not feel comfortable around non-Oriental people for historical reasons. They prefer either a Thai or another Oriental looking person. White are always exotic guests kind of like aliens from another planet. And the majority of Thais with white guys are hookers. Outside of the p4p industry there is little contact between the Thais and the Farangs, That can be said about most Asian countries oustide of the Philippines, Malaysia and Sg.
Now, the Philippines has a huge p4p industry, too except that it also has a huge penpal/internet dating industry and a history of racial mingling going back tens of millennia before the bars had been built. 9 million Pinoys live abroad and meet people of all races. Race means very little to the locals. Your character and your money means a lot. The richest people in the Philippines are Spaniards. The native Malay population is also very tolerant and relaxed and used to living in harmony with others. They have no national dogma like the Thais and no language or cultural bigotry. An ideal social backdrop. The longer I stayed there the more I admired their philosophy of life and thier social structure. Also, they have been marrying Westerners and Arabs and Greeks since centuries back.
As far as actually marrying into a middle class Filipino family- many Western guys do not want to do it- it is very stifling- they will lose their freedom and now will be part of the petty bourgouisie class. Boring! You can't go anywhere do anything, talk to anybody- people will gossip and your in-laws reputation will be ruined. You have to be really in love with the woman and willing to commit for life. Most guys do not like that- they like freedom.
And speaking of poverty- you need to think in terms of the standard of living not how much they have in dollars- they have their own currency. They are poor to you but they own land free and and clear and many have no debts. They can afford things that we cannot because everything is cheap. In Ukraine they have an apartment in the city and a dacha [ in the country or a house on the beach. They don't have a car but public transportation is good and cheap and you do not need a car. Taxes are low and medical care is cheap also. These things also need to be kept in mind.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
1) The majority of those countries have women with brown skin in them, see #2 for some background.
2) Its #1 because the majority of men in this are White men. White men view Feminism has mostly impacted White women (A) and (B) view women the same as they view Western women. IE: Shorter men are being rejected for not being 6'0, so shorter men go after Asian women. They also chase around Asian women because they believe they are the most feminine, per Steve Sailer.
3) Hmmm, not sure. The middle class in all those countries is tiny compared to Western Europe and North America that is quite unfair to say men only have access to lower class women. Have you seen some of the men going on these tours, do you need a reminder? -
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I am not one to make fun of how some people look, but with that said, those aiming a bit too high get the results they deserve. What works in North America (less so in Western Europe) will earn you a trip to the disappointment ward. Overseas, lead with your wallet and you really do get what you deserve, hard lessons are sometimes the only way people learn anything.
4) Santa Claus by default? I have never heard of such a thing and when I have I have only heard that some women work hard in their new country to send part of THEIR paycheck back home to a struggling family or parent. Mark and Anna have sent a few dollars back, but since her mother is now involved in Dream Connections, she is getting a regular paycheck.
If you fall into this trap (the same trap of being taken to expensive restaurants and shopping trips to the mall) then like I said deserve what happens to you.
Like I said, lead with your wallet.. = DOOM
5) I dare you to name a relationship that economics is not a factor. If you want to be the breadwinner (decreasingly important in Western Culture) then you are making Economics an issue by making sure you keep the dominate position of highest income earner. I guess you missed the part where divorce in America is over 50% and the vast majority of those relationships the man was the breadwinner????
6) Sort of, struggled back home, its more likely to happen to you. Minimize the negatives, read some books, get some counseling. The only women that will admit they are hoes are prostitutes and porn stars. Women who intentionally date men for monetary benefit = Prostitutes Keep your money in your wallet and in your pocket, less problems.
7) Banano have you actually been overseas? Preference is a strong word. I don't think that is the case. Many of these countries are male dominated meaning men control the dating scene largely. What these women want is a opportunity to have a family and be a wife. Because in these cultures being Mrs Banano has cashe in the community and in the workplace. In America for example they penalize women for deciding to become mothers, American values productivity overall else.
@Falcon most of these men end up being losers do to tactics and these companies taking control of a situation out of your hands.
Of the men I have known to have success at these "socials" have a focus and aren't distracted by beautiful, young women numbering into the hundreds but in reality maybe 100 tops. (50 out of 100 women, 100 out of 200 women, 150-175 out of 300 women) The task at hand is to find a suitable wife, not the best looking woman in the room, not the youngest woman in the room, not the tallest, not the shortest, etc, etc, etc.
Many men cling to old tactics that clearly didn't work at home and take them on the road with them. You should be meeting as many women one-on-one as possible, most of the time it doesn't happen that way.
I'd say about 50-60% of the men write somebody online and are disappointed when the woman they met isn't how she looked online or isn't the woman they thought they would be. Instead of filing that way, it messes up the entire trip for some men. Wrong attitude to have.
Again you believe in generalizations because its easy. Most of the men going on these thing are ill prepared for it, its just that simple. With the two biggest companies they don't check the women closely and the agencies they work with (here's the key) don't know the women very well, if at all.
Believe whatever you want Banano I can't stop you. You'll be single much longer than I will because I can toss the negativity to one side and DO MY JOB AS A MAN TO FIND THE RIGHT WOMAN FOR ME.
Boys, I'm from Chicago. Anywhere I go will be a step up from here. So if I end up dating a hot hoe from southeast Asia, who cares. If I end up sleeping with a hot stripper from eastern Europe, who cares. Just don't end up marrying a hoe and then bringing her back to the western world like a damn idiot.
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I see you have some insight here based on actual on the ground experience, so by definition it must be ignored.
I would suggest an alternative name for the site though...instead of Happier Abroad it could be renamed Bitching at Home.
Thanks for this encouraging post!
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