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Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
How do you guys initiate dating with Chinese women? More specifically, I mean urban Sinosphere women, such as Taiwanese and urban Chinese.
Latinas, Europeans, and Southeast Asians (Thais, Filipinas) generally give off signals quite easily, so for me it's easy to move from regular chatting to actual flirting or dating. But except for a few of the more aggressive Cantonese girls I had met and some rural Chinese women, I find that most urban Chinese and Taiwanese women do not seem to give off signals. It's just constantly friendly talk and platonic chatting. We talk and talk, then talk and talk, and nothing ever happens.
Yes, they're friendly, easy to approach and talk to, invite to meals, get phone numbers and QQ's off of, and so on. But all that happens is that we become great friends. They simply won't give off any signs of interest or show that it's appropriate to actually start flirting with them. I feel like I have to be their friend for an excruciatingly long period of time before it's appropriate to show interest, or before the romance part actually happens (I've heard that's how some couples in Taiwan would eventually get married).
Now, being obvious and sexually aggressive works very well with Latinas, but not with urban Sinosphere women.
Even the Latino guys I met in China were having trouble initiating romance with the local Chinese women. Both of us were used to Latino-style dating and didn't know how it should be done with Chinese women. For example, a Latino guy and I were at a hostel in China, and were chatting with one of the girls working there. He tried being a wingman by pointing at me and telling her, "This guy's super smart, tall, and handsome, isn't he? Maybe you'd like to marry him!" Yeah, in Latin America, the ladies would laugh really hard and love that, but this doesn't work in China. She was a bit taken aback by that and said, "Umm, I think you must be mistaken." I then explained to her that it was just typical Latino humor, and that she shouldn't be shocked by that.
Another time, a Latino guy and I were walking around downtown Guangzhou. He wanted me to pick up girls with all those aggressive Latino pickup lines, and wanted me to translate them into Chinese for him. Yes, I can imagine that those would work perfectly fine in Colombia or Mexico when said in Spanish, but something like, "Hey, where's the nearest church, because I want to get married" does NOT work in China. So we actually tried that on a group of women hanging out in Guangzhou. Of course, it turned out to be very, very awkward for them, and they were saying, "Huh? What?!" My Latino friend said that in Latin America, the women would start laughing right away, and bingo!
Sometimes I wonder if it's lack of estrogen on their part.
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Invite her out for a walk on the beach, when the water/wave splashes toward her and she is squealing, reach out and hold her hand. Help her step up/down on the beach rocks, carry her on your back and run around. If you run into the ocean you can get her wet and use it as an excuse to bring her back to your place. Figure it out.
Haha, thanks! Holding hands by the ocean sounds wonderful.
It should be quite fun figuring out more creative ways.
Well since I'm in the UK I've had to initiate dating via dating sites.
I'm not sure what the approach will be once I'm living in China. Maybe friends of friends of friends is the best approach.
As my Mandarin improves maybe direct approaches will work. I kind of like the getting-to-know-somebody online first thing though.
Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention via PM Falcon. I had initially opted to ignore it since I'm not speaking from a NE Asian man's perspective but it seems u would like a response from me anyways so here goes.
1. Interesting you are starting to shift focus to urban girls which is what I suggested u try in a post a few months ago. Time to move in a direction of higher challenge. Have u tried out urban girls in Mexico yet?
2. As far as Taiwan is concerned, it seems your impression or perhaps experience is quite different than Winston's in some ways since u wrote "Yes, they're friendly, easy to approach and talk to, invite to meals, get phone numbers and QQ's off of, and so on". I firmly believe the experience with women will vary significantly in a given place depending on the person, how people there tend to perceive him, and how he relates to and perceives the people and environment around him.
3. Usually, and perhaps in contrast to some of the other HA regions u mentioned were people tend to be very open, I've found its more effective when approaching girls to just express interest in striking-up a friendship and behaving rather innocently when chatting them up. U need to come up with creative excuses for approaching and perhaps for obvious foreigners, its a bit easier - I'm new in town, trying to meet a few new people and you really caught my eye, would like to practice speaking Chinese with a lovely girl like yourself, ha ha, etc. It doesn't hurt to throw out subtle half joking compliments or even flirt a bit in subtle ambiguous ways. You can read about my tenant Monkro or perhaps even talk with him directly if he agrees. He's approached a lot of girls in Taipei fairly recently.
4. Once u r able to fill yr dating calendar, the bigger challenge for someone like u might be moving things from platonic to romantic level. Monkro has struggled in this area too. Personally, I've been able to know wht my chances r within 1-3 dates and proceed up or out. U can try have a sit-down date (coffee, food, lounge bar, or anywhere its quiet enough u can feel her out and warm her up verbally). A lot of clues come out in convo session if u r good and depending on circumstances, u can work in kino or even sit with her. Step 2 should be getting her to a more private area in evening if possible - big park, mountain trail which ends at some sort of vista for view, beach or secluded coastal area, or even an MTV room for private movie. From there, u work up the kino. In all your touching, u shld go subtlety forward then step back for awhile (2 steps forward, 1 step bak as you've prolly heard before). Depending on the convo and her responses to yr subtle 'touch escalation', u should know within 2 or 3 private dates whether or not the girl has any interest in u romantically.
5. One type of rice raises 100 types of people - everyone is different, even in one location. So wht I just wrote in Pt. 4 above is an example which is doable for some girls. But all kinds of alternative scenarios are possible. Some girls can be worked up to romance just thru lots of What's App/SMS/Facebook chat or even phone conversation. But if u r perceptive, good at interviewing and interpreting the data she gives, and sensing when the iron is hot, u will figure things out quickly and be able to take action at right times.
6. I suspect you might come across as young, inexperienced, and perhaps a bit lost to some of the urban girls u meet in a place like Taipei. That might be ok with some and perhaps they might even find it cute depending on the gal. But if u wanna be generally more effective, u prolly need to learn to behave in a confident and manly manner and strive to be in control of the show. This works better with some girls than others tho and some may even challenge u on it.
7. If u wanna behave more directly the way u do with some Latinas, there are certain clubs where u can encounter more slutty types in the larger cities w/Chinese. I used to have a French tenant who pulled fast local women back to his room about every week-end and he had no Chinese language skills plus and even his English was not very good.
8. As I mentioned in Pt. 2 above, mileage varies. Foreigners can prolly get by breaking unwritten social rules a lot more than Chinese looking guys (tht's the way they do things where he's from, he's just acting normal for foreigner, etc.).
9. Some girls will want a serious relationship with u or nothing. So best u don't pretend just to get into her pants. If u play that game, the karma will come back at u in short order one way or another I believe. Pursue those types IF u too might sincerely be interested in a serious relationship w/her. Otherwise, better to move on to more casual targets.
All that comes to mind at the moment. If u ever come (return) to Taiwan, be sure to meet-up w/myself and/or Winston if we happen to be there then.
#1 - Yes I've started talking to middle-class Latinas, who are actually immigrants in the US. Unlike China, Mexico does not have a big urban-rural divide due to a hukou-type system. Both rural and urban areas have people of all sorts of socio-economic classes, so "Have you tried out middle/upper-class girls in Mexico yet?" would be a better question.
#2 - I do find them easy to make friends with. Much of the time, THEY ask me for my contact info first, and it's because I strike them as a highly interesting and unique individual who's fun to talk to. I find them really pleasant to be around with, and completely unlike most NE Asian-American women. And unlike Winston, I don't feel like a misfit in Taiwanese or urban Chinese society.
#4 - As you see, this is why it's frustrating. Also, could you explain how this "touch escalation" is done?
#5 - Even more frustrating. I never had to do all this painstaking people analysis in Latin America. A smile, a serenade, a dance - that's it. In Mexico, often it's really easy and natural to just ask them for a kiss (often the Latinas do this to me without even asking me!).
I'm not, because I would need to have a very good idea of how urban Chinese/Taiwanese women work on the inside. Now there was a Cantonese girl who had said to me really boldly out of the blue, "Hey, shuaige!", and another one who had said, "Don't go away! Walk with me!" Their body language was quite clear. But they are the exception rather than the rule.
Instead of endless discussion, I hope to come over to Taiwan one day, and maybe you can show me how it's done.
#6 - Well, they often say I look older. I'm taller and don't talk like a typical young Taiwanese guy.
#9 - Yes, I'm only looking for long-term relationships.
I grew up near beach cities here in Orange County, so that's pretty much what I do. Most of my first dates were to the beach/beach cities.
...when I dated girls in SG, I took them to Sentosa.
...when I brought a girl to PH for my buddy's wedding, I took her to Boracay.
...when I dated my ex in TW, we went to Suao and various hots prings & cold springs.
...when I'm in Taipei, I take girls to Wulai to get away from the smog.
...when I bring girls home, I take them to the pool and Jacuzzi.
...sometimes I take girls on fishing trips to the lake, the pier, on the boat, or out to Catalina Island.
Not terribly imaginative, but works.
Let me use a traffic light analogy.
In the US, I usually get a red light. No, I can't go ahead.
In Latin America, I often get a green light. Yes it's clear, go ahead.
In urban China and Taiwan, I get a yellow light all the time. OK it's better than a red light, but should I go ahead or not? According to Momopi, maybe some water splashing should do the trick.
I also spent significant time in Latam and Brazil. Had some great experiences. But overall, I achieved better and deeper connections with urban girls in Taiwan and China than those in South America.
Yes, I found it much easier to get girls to flirt with me and smile in SA vs. Taiwan/China. Numbers were easier to get in SA too. But if I take it further and consider the percentages of girls who ultimately became sincerely interested in long term relationships, Taiwan and China still won out. Cus many of the SA girls who smiled and flirted were not serious or sincere. Some were just testing their skills over men or playing around. Others were just easy to hold hands or kiss with but did that with various guys as u wld expect from a party girl.
But, even though I could potentially integrate more thoroughly into SA countries than China or even Taiwan, I speak Chinese better than Spanish. Plus, I've logged a lot more time in Asia and have a much greater volume of experience to draw from in reading Taiwanese/Chinese women and win them over than with Latinas/Brasileiras.
I'm more introverted. I vibe better with shier types of people. Yellow lights are fine with me. The right kind of yellow light means I'm watching you and giving you a chance. But you have to act correctly for me to start having 'those' types of feelings for you.
When I go out with a girl, I gauge many subtle signs even when I'm walking with her. How slowly does she walk? How does her body respond when I subtly bump into her by 'accident'? When I shake hands with her or touch her hand for some reason, how relaxed or stiff is it. When u meet someone, there are all kinds of things going on physically, many of which she might not be conscious of at the time. The body reveals true right brain type feelings. U need to get in touch with these.
Case in point. Winston's girl in Taichung introduced me to her friend once. She came by to see us all briefly in the mall and met me for the first time. Within 5-10 minutes, I knew she had no interest in me (chemistry not there on her side). I concluded that from some very subtle hints in her speaking and the way her body responded when I got a bit closer, analyzed her skin (she was on her way to get a facial), and briefly touched her hands. But Winston's friend thought it went well and didn't find out until two days later (when she talked w/her again) what I already knew. Likewise, Winston kept encouraging me to call her and arrange a date. So yes, it takes some practice and experience to read Taiwan girls with fair accuracy. But as you get better at it, you will save a lot of time and figure out which girls you can move forward with and how quickly u can escalate things. Expect to make some mistakes along the way, lol.
2 things which are very popular in Taiwan which I personally don't like - singing at KTV and eating hotpot. Both are group activities and some guys like to work girls from within groups. Tht's generally not been my style but some guys, including locals, r quite good at working those situations into closer friendships or more with target girls within the group. There's many ways to skin a cat.
Chinese girls love to go hiking as well.
Another test, I think it is from Henry Makow of all people, is to give a girl a command. If she does what you say, she is "going along with you."
Something like "take off your glasses."
"walk with me."
IMO it's a kind of kino, without touching.
It hasn't been particularly hard to think of ways of getting an Asian lady to go to my hotel room. After that you just need to make some kind of a move.
It's easier if you date a really hot girl, then you won't be able to keep your hands off her anyway.
If anyone wants Chinese wife, my friend is super desperate for a husband. She's super honest and her family are quite well off, so she doesn't want your money. She's really tall which rules out quite a few guys, especially in China.
How tall would her husband have to be and where would she want to live?