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Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
Most of the content points mainly to just one country - Phils. And I can understand. Certain young Pinays treat much older and/or very unattractive westerners very well and seem to be good at acting the part of LT girlfriend. Same is true to an extent with certain gals in Thailand. But Phils seems to win-out on the gf experience.
However, not everyone is going to like Phils for various reasons - the way the girls look, weather, food/infrastructure, etc. I wonder if there are other hidden gem countries where looks and age matter much less to the young and attractive girls. It would be great for the forum if we could expand the base of 'older men's countries' by going more in depth on other prospects. A tentative list of countries which might be worthy of further consideration and study are:
- Poorer areas of China
- Certain areas of the Middle East
- Poorer areas of LatAm / Caribbean
I'm not talking about places where old guys can just bang hos. I'm talking about areas where girls can credibly pull-off the LT gf treatment of a guy who is old and/or very unattractive. Even tho their motivation is going to be money and security, some types of girls are just much better at giving generously and more loving than others. Some seem able to see through the physical form of a man to what's underneath, even if the man himself has a superficial outlook.
Couple of examples I encountered:
1. Once a friend of mine who lived in Chengdu for a few months gave me the number of a girl he thought I would be attracted to, and showed me her photo which I liked. But he told her nothing about me. At the time, I was not in China but was planning to go in a few weeks. So I started calling her with my Skype and chatting her up. She warmed up within a few calls and started to really like me. I told her I would be visiting within a few weeks and I did. She didn't seem to care about what I might look like and told me looks don't really mater to her. So she never even got to see my photo.
When I arrived in the cold Chengdu winter, she picked me up at airport. Now I could have been anyone of any age. I don't think it would have mattered much at that point unless I was extreme in some way. We went straight to her place by taxi and since it was so cold in the room, undressed and snuggled.
2. A good friend of mine, a HK Canadian girl I studied with as an exchange student, met her serious LT live-in bf online. They established a relationship online even tho the guy had no photo on his profile and was quite a bit older. When they finally met the first time after a few weeks, she had already fallen for him. She told me that she didn't want appearance to even factor into how she developed feelings for a guy. The guy was not super ugly but was fairly short and not at all attractive. But he was eccentric, very interesting and accomplished (like her). They both had done well financially. She achieved a net worth of around US$3 mn in a few years doing business in HK after graduation.
These are anecdotal examples and I'm sure much more the exception than the rule. But I'm wondering whether or not there are certain areas of the world where a higher percentage of girls tend to be this way.
Any ideas or thoughts about this subject out there in the HA universe?
I am not sure on the list of which cuntries have the highest illigitimate children rate but the philippines has to be one of the highest illigitimate
children rates in the world with people haveing kids like ants with no social consequenses to them? Most western countries the western man would expect to pay some sort of alimony child support and many other social consequences when i child is born. Many of the third world countrys seem to be having children like hatching eggs and this is why there will always be a lot of women available.
Good post, Rock - I'd be interested to see more useful input on this topic.
Of the countries you list, I only have experience of Vietnam (see my trip report). It's certainly not the Philippines in terms of quantity of women available to the older man, but the quality is way up. Most Pinays have kids by the age of 25, but you will find childless women in Vietnam up to 30 and above, and they age a lot better than Pinays. So, you can't pull as big an age gap, but you may end up with a better quality woman overall.
I've heard that Indonesia is good, too - not so much money-grabbing as in the Phils.
"As long as you make an identity for yourself out of the pain, you cannot become free of it." Eckhart Tolle
Poor black parts of africa is good to explore, if you flash some cash they will look past your ugliness, these chicks are jobless or if they are lucky to have a job they work for 1 dollar a month, takes a year to buy fkn cheseburger with chippies,they might be a bit skinny, have saggy titties and dont wear bras, got clits cut off and a few of them have HIV
Well there's more to it than just economics. For example, here on the island of Hispaniola where I currently am, I get a strong sense that it's easier to get women with your money in the Dominican Republic than the much poorer country of Haiti on the other side which by the way is populated mostly by west African descendants.
India is another example of a very poor country where I don't think you can do well with women in spite of being a relatively rich westerner.
I dont think indonesia would be anywhere as good as philippines they are less westernized, there is more hippie english teachers competiting and living there, and most are less likely to be on dating sites or open to foreigners. Vietnam is also off the list for many reasons. India is probably the toughest for a poor country.
From my research Vietnam and india is probably where youd go to find a wife if you want to bring her to america (who the hell would live in India or Vietnam forever) ? Philippines is where you would go to be a player. Indonesia would probably be somewhere between the two. Does that sound about right?
If you're interested in Africa, the countries you should focus on are Togo, Benin (both French-speaking) and Ghana (english-speaking). All these countries have low incidence of AIDS, are more or less stable, no more corrupt than is typical for the 3rd world, Christian culture. Moslem cultures are no good unless you are Moslem yourself. Togo is in the middle and probably the best overall, but you do need to speak french. Ghana is crawling with American missionaries and their bible-thumping converts. If you can avoid these pests, it's probably okay. All of them are West African and therefore everything is loud: the people, the music, the automobiles/trucks/motorcycles. Similar to Haiti, in this respect.
As you head west into Ivory Coast, Liberia, etc, there is Ebola plus corruption. As you head east into Nigeria, etc, things get very corrupt, very dangerous, disease-ridden, etc. Southern Africa has AIDS. East Africa (Kenya, Ethiopia, etc) are much more dangerous than the 3 countries I mentioned.
The Moslem countries (Niger, Mali) are not so dangerous as central Africa in terms of robbery, murder and robbery combined, disease, but there is no possibility of western style dating in those countries.
Gambia supposedly has become something if a sex-tourism mecca for fat and ugly middle-aged British women. Not sure how things are there for western men.
As Rock noted, money will only help you so much in some countries. Women in Togo, Benin and Ghana are definitely easy to bed for generous western men who are average-looking or better (and the generosity doesn't have to be much, we're talking like subsidies or whatever they call them of $10/day), but I'm not sure how they'll react if you're old and unattractive. I would guess they react the same as Haitians, where Rock already noted money is not guarantee of success.
Morocco may be the place where Moslem girls are most accessible to Western style dating AND open to older men. Tangiers is a safe place to do anything, not sure what social norms apply elsewhere in Morocco.
If you have a professional credential, like engineer or phd, this can translate into serious status in the Middle East. Perhaps one could target the many Christians who are interested in leaving Syria and Iraq, and who might welcome an approach.
San Juan del Sur, Nicaragua.
Foz do Iguaçu, Brazil.
"Well actually, she's not REALLY my daughter. But she does like to call me Daddy... at certain moments..."
Great idea, Rock.
Thanks for posing the question!
"Well actually, she's not REALLY my daughter. But she does like to call me Daddy... at certain moments..."
are you serious? poor africans actually care about age?
I didn't see lots and lots of old white guys with young Indonesian women when I lived there, but it happens. I knew one guy who married a Muslim woman, a single mother, I think, and had a baby with her. He ended up divorcing her. I never met her. He'd lost his job and was hitting everyone up in the expat community for cash. His former job paid very well. He wouldn't listen to my suggestion to take an English teaching job. He was afraid he'd ruin his reputation by teaching the child of a business associate or something. It made no sense to me. Begging off the expat community hurts your reputation. Teaching their kids is 'giving back' until you can get another high paying job. The man must have been around 60 at the time, and his wife was at least in her childbearing years because they had a child together.
I know a guy from South America who lives in the US who married a pretty Javanese girl from Indonesia. She's a bit dark, but I think she's somewhere in the 8 or 9 range. Indonesians probably wouldn't appreciate her looks because the skin is a shade or two darker than what's considered pretty there. That's another tip for getting a girl there who is good looking but gets less competition from the locals--consider the darker girls.
Something else to consider, if your definition of 'young' is relative, my guess is that if you are 50 or 60 and you marry a woman who is 30 and never married, parents may be more accepting. The girl has hit the big three oh, and her parents may be worried about no grandkids. If she ends up with an older, well-off (by their standards) foreigner, that might sell a little better than trying to marry up their 19 year old who has her whole life ahead of her. Generally, respectable Indonesians want parental approval of marriages. It's a strong tradition. I don't think it's a legal necessity, but the civil registrar we used wanted to make sure there was parental consent, and I wouldn't have been surprised if she'd have refused to sign if my wife's parents didn't agree.
My wife's dad was angry when he heard his daughter was dating a white guy. He's worked in a remote place for an oil company. Some of those oil men will hire 'contract wives'. The deal is they pay the wives with a house and maybe an agreed upon amount of money to be married for so many years, agreeing to divorce when he leaves his assignment. She gets the kids. Maybe he thought that is what I was doing. I'd never heard of such an arrangement in my country. I think it's Islamic influence, since contract marriages for the night for prostitution date back to the time of Muhammad at least. When he found out I was a decent guy in it for the long haul, he was okay with it. An old man trying to marry a young woman might arouse suspicions in the parents who have experienced older oilmen doing contract marriage and things like that.
Generally, though, old men marrying young women isn't the norm in Indonesia. It happens, just like in the US. The advantage is that expats are seen as desirable, so being an expat (especially if well off) gives a man an advantage at being seen as a good match in spite of his age.
Indonesian women also tend to believe that a woman should know how to cook, that wives should submit to their husbands (theoretically), and tend to have the idea that sex is for marriage. Jokes about sex tend to be in the context of marriage (sometimes) and it seems like people have a positive idea about marriage. I didn't hear as many jokes about men being henpecked, marriage being a bad thing, etc. over there as I do here. You hear people joke or tease about newly weds having sex and stuff like that. If you marry an Indonesian woman, be prepared to give her a baby. That's expected. Large families are common.
I think it's best to go with a girl who wasn't from a rich family. It doesn't take that much to be well off there. When I was there, a live-in maids salary was around $50 or $60 a month. A car could cost more than the house. A girl from a rich family has experience telling the maid how to do her laundry. A girl from a poorer family may have experience doing everyone's laundry by hand with a scrub brush. There are spoiled princesses types there, too. My wife grew up working hard and is a hard worker to this day.
Everyone "cares" about age. Your question should be rephrased "will money causes poor africans to make a convincing show of enjoying sex with a wrinkly old man?" I doubt it. My experience is that West Africans tend to have poor ability to hide their true feelings. When they don't like something, they make a hideous face and grumble and otherwise make it clear that they are not happy. This inability to hide their true feelings is refreshing compared to more sophisticated cultures, but it means a man who is truly repulsive is not going to get the true girlfriend experience no matter how much money he plunks down. On the other hand, if a girl in west africa acts like she likes you, you can be sure she almost certainly does really like you. Africans can and do lie, they lie all the time in fact, but it is the lying of children and easy to detect. They are utterly incapable of lying convincingly about liking someone they don't like.
I think you nailed it. They often wear their feelings on their sleeves. If you want a more convincing illusion, there are probably much better places to go. And yes, the lies are ridiculously transparent. Much of what can be said about west Africa can probably be extended to much of black east Africa and southern Africa.
But some Kenyans do seem more refined and perhaps the educated classes from certain tribes can put on a decent show.
Rock how do you think India would compare as far as providing the girlfriend experience for older men? I know you haven't been there but do you think they be similiar to other asians in playing the role so to speak? are only women in select poor asian countries good at this and you can eliminate all the richer asian countries?