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Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
10 posts • Page 1 of 1
There is a new reality tv show on vh1 Mondays 8 pm central time called the " Pick up artist" where 8 guys "learn" from a so called pickup guru how to pick up women at bars and clubs! It's come to this, now there is a reality tv show showing guys how to pick up women and break the ice with women! Of course so far, all of the pick up attempts are at bars and clubs because that is the only socially acceptable place to meet women in America! These poor guys are getting rejected left and right and the bars and clubs are NOT a good place to meet people! How about if people just talked to strangers when out shopping and try to meet people that way! But of course that is taboo in America! It's funny how many websites and books and seminars there are out there on how to meet women! I know a guy who paid $ 1,200 last summer on a seminar on how to meet women and he told me he learned NOTHING that really helped him! You don't need all this "pick up" material if you were in Russia, Europe, Asia or Latin America because there women are more approachble and friendly and easier to meet! And you don't have to think of it as trying to "pickup" a women, rather it would just be approaching a women and starting a conversation with her in a natural way without having to memorize a bunch of pickup lines!
W: So true. Look at all the women I "pick up" and meet daily:
Right now, two guys from my list are here in Angeles with me, and they are also picking up lots of hotties. One of them has so much energy that he bangs like 3 women a day or gets blow jobs from them, and stays out meeting more and more until 6am everyday. I turn in a lot earlier than that of course
But we've all been taking tons of pictures, and if you guys saw the kind of girls we are getting, it'd blow you away. So many hardbodies, tight bottoms, and even girls who look like Penelope Cruz or Carmen Electra are on our scoreboard!
In babe heaven,
I always hated the idea of having to learn PUA techniques just to get dates and companionship. Even though the behavior of many American women disgusts me, I don't want to play manipulative games and cause needless suffering.
There seem to be precious few options for American guys.
1. Bars and clubs are horrible places to meet girlfriends, they're only really good for one night stand type deals, which can result in emotional harm to both partners, which leads me to my point 2.
2. Being upfront with a girl and telling her you're only interested in no-strings attached, one night type deals is likely to turn many of them off.
3. Approaching people in public is frowned upon.
4. Even people who share your interests, whether meet over the internet or at social functions, may be extremely obese or have emotional imbalances which render them unsuitable partners.
4. Getting married (if you're a man) carries with it the very real risk of losing your children and savings, along with enduring all other sorts of heartache.
5. Telling you're girlfriend you don't want to get married in America is likely to sour the relationship.
6. People eventually growing apart in their romances is to be expected, but outright dumping and shunning someone with whom you shared deep moments to me seems cold-hearted and neurotic, and this frequently happens with relationships in the U.S.
Taking into account the former points, all you are then left with is:
7. Becoming a PUA
8. Getting really, really rich
9. Only seeing prostitues
10. Masturbating to porn, which is about as satisfying as recieving single drops of water when you're in a parched desert. It helps somewhat with the immediate need, but still leaves you feeling starved and empy.
11. Celibacy (which can cause imbalance unless one fully chooses it as an adjunct to some sort of meditative or religious path)
I'm really happy I found this site, travelling to Europe is now one of my dreams. Thanks Winston!
I feel the exact same way, having to learn all these frivolous tactics. That metaphor about the drops of water in the desert is a good one by the way.
Hey everyone. Well, you may not like this but I am one of the believers in these so-called "tactics".
I have studied David DeAngelo's material a lot more but I'm just getting into Mystery's stuff to see how it compares and so far it seems to ring true as well if not being more narrow than David D. it adds to the overall picture.
I've noticed on a lot of online forums there are people who dismiss it all as B.S. smoke and mirrors or "manipulative" but I'd like to try to open your mind to my perspective.
What the people who discredit these "techniques" don't get is that the CORE, most *important* ideas PUA's such as Mystery, David D are learning/teaching aren't "techniques" or "tactics" at all.
People tend to have opinions about and bash things that they have NO IDEA about and haven't even taken the time to learn about it, you discredit things you don't even have enough interest in to learn about. You make ASSUMPTIONS about what it is about without even knowing.
What they are teaching is psychology, a "mindset" that is valid for ALL women in ALL countries I don't care where you go humans are humans and humans aren't 100% culturally influenced, we also have hard-wired inbred behaviours and mating instincts like any other animal.
Conservative religious people would of course reject any suggestion that we share anything in common with other animals, but truly we are just mammals and we have mating and courtship rituals that are hardwired from birth just like any other animal. Culture actually messes with our heads and makes us UN-LEARN what we should have known from birth.
Our minds get contaminated with this cultural B.S. and that can really get in the way of meeting and relating to women for a lot of men. I know I fell into the B.S. that was fed to me.
For a bunch of open-minded, renaissance men, "free-thinkers" you are being pretty closed minded IMHO.
I bet none of you have actually STUDIED the material and took the time to actually LEARN and UNDERSTAND what it is all about.
A typical nice-guy stance is "Oh but I just want to be myself". Here's something for you: What is wrong with learning something NEW if the old isn't working for you? That isn't being manipulative, that is just SMART.
What these guys teach makes absolutely common sense. Common sense that is well, not common because of so much cultural B.S. and ignorance of the art and science behind human behaviour patterns. For all the variation among people, there ARE patterns you can pick up. What is wrong with knowing those patterns and using that to your advantage?
I have just started learning the stuff and let me tell you it WORKS like MAGIC. What they talk about DIRECTLY correlates to my experience in the real world. I've been in all the typical BAD situations with women and this stuff teaches you how to AVOID those very very BAD situations and I am thankful I am learning it.
I can guarantee these "tactics" would work anywhere in the world because in esscence they are NOT "tactics" at all. It would work in the Philippines, Europe, etc as long as the language and culture barrier is broken first.
If your success with women is 10x better over there than in the states in your "ignorant" state (no offense meant but it's true), then your success over there would be 100x better easily WITH this knowledge that I'm learning from PUA's.
Of course if you already have naturally the mindset that they teach then it would be of no help but to a guy like me who has struggled for years in confusion over the weird ass shit women pull on men, their mind games, flakyness, emotional nature, irrationality, etc, it is PURE GOLD.
All they teach is to be FUN, humorous, don't take interaction with women too seriously, keep many options open, NEVER be needy or clingy, confident, did I mention FUN FUN FUN, slightly cocky and VALUES himself, doesn't allow himself to be walked on, can move on easily, the list goes on of common sense mindsets that they teach that SHOULD be common sense but a lot of nice, caring guys get SCREWED, absolutely screwed when they are too nice, and I highly doubt there is an exception overseas.
My two cents, take it or leave it I don't care, your own success is yours, mine is mine, and if people want to brush new ideas off, NO PROBLEMO, less competition the better for guys like me.
From what I've learned so far, a good Pick-up artist can be summed up this way:
-HONEST and DIRECT (doesn't lie or cheat women like a player does)
-Confident to the point of being slightly cocky in a fun and playful way
-VALUES his own time and space, doesn't make the woman his whole world
-Emphasizes the FUN aspect of flirting with women, teases them a lot, isn't an asshole, but plays with them and makes them feel like a little girl again.
-Knows how a woman's body works, knows how to really turn a woman on and make her feel sensations no other man can give her.
-Understands that attraction is an emotional instinct and not a logical choice, doesn't take it personally when a women loses attraction, knows it wasn't her choice it was a FEELING you created or failed to create.
-Knows the art of making a woman FEEL good feelings, doesn't try to win her over with gifts, excessive compliments, sugar daddy, flashy cars, etc.
-Isn't a NEEDY WUSSY, doesn't whine, doesn't complain, doesn't fall in love with girls who don't return his love, doesn't get upset or angry, doesn't blame women for dumping him, doesn't chase them around, doesn't do favors for them in expectation of sex etc etc.
-NEVER feels sorry for himself, gets jealous or makes himself feel like a VICTIM. "Oh, she cheated on me, she betrayed me, she flaked out on a date with me, oh boo hoo! WUSS lol. (I know that's a problem I had a few times, more than once!)
Of course if she ever cheats on you, firmly tell her it's not acceptable and immediately leave her, but with the mindset they teach you, you'd never get devastated by it, you can go meet 100 other women and you already have tons of female friends who all want you.
Basically it teaches you to be a NON-WUSSY with lots of options open, who is respectful of women but loves to have LOTS and LOTS of FUN with them.
In effect it is teaching you to be LESS manipulative because you aren't doing favors for the girl or being EXCESSIVELY nice just to win her liking and approval. You aren't buying her dinners, flowers, gifts just so she'll like you and have sex with you, you are confident that she'll fall in love with you just because you are FUN to be with and challenging, women love that.
Now, being slightly arrogant and funny doesn't work all the time, but one GREAT thing I love about it is that it helps you WEED OUT the ones without a SENSE OF HUMOR. If they aren't fun, they aren't good enough for you, it helps you have standards. YOU are judging and screening them out, not the other way around as it usually is. You are the picky one.
You don't just go for anything with a p*ssy. You LET THEM KNOW you're picky and that you are seeing if they live up to YOUR standards. Looks could be one of them, another is how well they can take some teasing and have fun.
Ah yes and one of the important things they teach that SHOULD be common sense is OUTCOME INDEPENDENCE. When you're picking up women you don't care whether or not you get the girl, you aren't out there to pick up girls, you are out to have fun with them. The whole emphasis is on this carefree fun attitude while not being a total liar or jerk.
You might play with them by not answering questions about your work directly, (if they ask you where you work, say you're a male stripper at an EXCLUSIVE strip joint or something), but you don't devastate them by lying about major stuff. Carefree fun attitude, you don't talk about boring topics with them, you make them feel like a little girl who is overwhelmed with your charm and power.
It's all about CREATIVITY baby. It's FUN. They teach you a MINDSET, with some "techniques" to get started, but in the end it's really all about the mindset not some stupid canned lines or routines. You take the knowledge of the root psychology behind attraction, and you be creative with it and have fun, and feel more POWERFUL knowing that no matter what you're living life to the fullest and having the time of your life with attractive fun loving women.
It's about an abundance mentality rather than a scarcity mentality, security rather than insecurity, fun instead of overly melodramatic, romantic and serious, feeling your own masculine power and bringing out the feminine in her.
Now on that point, maybe bringing out the feminine is more of a challenge in the U.S. and it's less of a challenge abroad, but it can't hurt improving even if it is easier abroad.
Women test and manipulate men ALL THE TIME. They test us so much it's ridiculous. I can't remember one time I went out with a women who didn't subject me to some kind of subtle test (that I didn't know was a test of course in my naive innocence). What's worse is that there's this double standard that men who pick up women through personality are manipulative, but then it's OK to TEST men to see if they measure up and dump them if they don't pass the test, and it's ok for women to have cosmo magazines, manipulate our sexual desires by dressing sexy, putting on make-up and enhancing their appearance in all sorts of unnatural ways.
That is what made me seek help in the first place. I experienced first hand the manipulation, the flakyness, the manipulation and mind games, the shit TESTS women play on you to see how much of a MAN you are. I've suffered a LOT out of confusion. What these guys teach is HOW women test you and WHY. When you learn that, you don't get victimized by it, you see it as cute and feminine and you just plow right through it like a hot knife through butter. Aww she's testing me that's cute it means she likes me. etc.
Heck, 90% of what the PUA guru's teach is getting past these damn tests!! ALL women do it, it's unconcious, it's biological, maybe women overseas do it less, but I will bet you anything they still do it. I have met foreign women including from East Asia and in some cases it was WORSE.
These are things that can be LEARNED. You can LEARN about psychology, sociology, martial arts, riding a bike, making more money, the list goes on.
But as soon as we start talking about dating... OH NO!! YOU CAN"T LEARN THAT! HAHA You still think you;re open minded guys? Why there is a stigma agains this? Why can't you see it's just that, a cultural stigma.
Now, if you guys still see something wrong with that, I leave that up to you, not my loss .
For women its so easy, just look good. Get some plastic surgery and a breast job. Done.
Attraction for men is 80% looks 20% personality
for women it's the other way around, 20% looks, 80% personality.
If a woman is feeling unattractive what does she work on? Her looks usually, and it has the most bang for her buck.
If a man is feeling unattractive is that going to help him? A little, but not nearly as much as it would help a woman. So what are we left with? Personality. If you think your personality doesn't need improvement and you're not having luck with women, well, you won't EVER see any improvement.
Moving overseas takes care of your external environment and I won't deny it has an effect, but you guys are putting 100% emphasis on the external and 0% on the internal, it just isn't BALANCED.
It's a cop-out. The women may be better overseas but that's no excuse to blame ALL your failures on the women and the social environment. ALL women are just women, both American and Filipina's are just human nothing more nothing less.
Work on your success with ALL women regardless of the place. When you can master that, it makes a lot more sense.
If you can get lots of women in the most difficult place on Earth, imagine what your success would be like in the easier places.
You can't just place all the burden on the environment around you and expect a change of environment to do it ALL for you.
All you guys are talking about is external improvement rather than self improvement. Somehow changing your environment to attract women is good, but improving yourself to attract women is "bad". Can't you see how narrow and LAZY that kind of thinking is?
If you do ever decide to learn it, remember a lot of it is very abstract and may contradict your current views on love, social interaction, etc. It would more accurately be described as the study of "social psychology" rather than "pick up artist" or "player" you are really an amateur social psychologist who practices in the "real world".
Sorry for being so long winded but it is NOT a simple topic and there are so many pre/misconceptions that need to be dispelled to open your mind. Even then, it's up to you to actually UNDERSTAND it.
If you guys would rather prefer to complement hot women all day and ask women to dinner and a movie, or chase bar girls (whores) all day, then go ahead and waste your money. I'm sure you'll get "lucky" but I am not leaving it to luck, nor am I going to depend on *where* I am to get chicks. I want to have women attracted to me no matter where I go.
Guys all complain you need looks, money, status, prestige, Guess what? This is a load of horsecrap. You don't need any of those. They are symbols of DEEPER things that women are REALLY looking for.
They IMPLY someone who has confidence and high value, but you don't NEED those to have confidence and high value. They go for the rich, famous, or good looking men because those men are assumed to have the things they are looking for which are NOT money/fame/looks/status. It is something deeper and subconcious that they want and anyone can learn what it is.
However 90% of it is NOT logical at all. Women don't make logical sense and never will, but there IS a pattern to the madness believe it or not, you just have to see it.
Quote: "The species who does not adapt is doomed to die", what happens when the Philippines becomes just like the U.S.? Will you go celibate your whole life?
A woman will constantly probe you and test you looking for these traits: non-wussiness, decisiveness, real world knowledge, responsibility, taking charge, live your own reality, assertiveness, ability to make her feel safe.
When u get lucky you pass these tests by accident, why not try to pass them on purpose?
In essence they are teaching the INNER *and* OUTER QUALITIES that make a "real man", a strong man who is in control of his destiny and LEADS the interaction with a women and lets her follow. Inner strength and outer style. All good qualities any real man should want to have.
However as soon as people hear "pick up artist" all these notions of "manipulative jerk" or woman user, abuser come into their minds. I can't blame them especially in this hyper feminist society.
The fact is that there are rules that govern human behaviour unconciously that can be learned conciously, and as long as humans are humans, it will ALWAYS work, anywhere in the world no matter what culture, it will work.
Typical criticism of PUA Guru's:
Critic: "I don't want to memorize a bunch of pickup lines! That's sleazy and manipulative"
PUA: "It isn't about the pickup lines, read about it some more"
Critic: "I don't want to memorize a bunch of pickup lines! That's sleazy and manipulative"
PUA: "You just said that, and I told you, pickup lines are not what it's all about"
Critic: "It's sleazy and manipulative"
PUA: "Have you even tried to learn it?"
Critic: "It's sleazy and manipulative, you guys are despicable scum of the earth!"
PUA: "I guess you just answered my question?"
The movies and tv in America make it look so easy for men to pick up women. In fact, sometimes it will show the woman making moves on the guy and approaching him! Of course we all know in real life that never happens (unless your a guy who is a celebrity). In reality in America, women are not approachale, you as a guy have to do all the work, including guess work trying to figure out if a woman is interested in you (very few women in America actually flirt with men). That is why there are reality tv shows like "The pickup artist" to teach men how to meet women. Of course there are a lot of books for men teaching them how to approach women and internet sites teaching men how to pick up chicks. They even have seminars on how to meet women which can cost up to $ 3,000! All this just learn how to approach women in America and maybe get a womans phone number!
"You can't just place all the burden on the environment around you and expect a change of environment to do it ALL for you.
All you guys are talking about is external improvement rather than self improvement. Somehow changing your environment to attract women is good, but improving yourself to attract women is "bad". Can't you see how narrow and LAZY that kind of thinking is? "
W: That's not true for me. By changing my environment my dating and love life changed a TRILLION percent, more than you can imagine.
I was never a bad person that repeled American women. It's just that they didn't want to meet me. I was a stranger to them and they wanted me to do my own thing (which was masturbating and indulging in senseless consumption) and them to do their own thing, like being alone, reading, walking their dog, etc.
So it didn't matter whether my personality was great to them or not. They didn't want to take the time to find out........
Even in New Age groups, where the women have a lot in common with me and my spiritual views, the women tend to be too old, fat, and the ones that were young just made polite conversation with me and never wanted to see me outside of the group meetings.
All in all, a no win situation.
Believe me, I've tried EVERYTHING!
W: Both. The friends from the list that have come here so far have all at least been able to find at least one stable regular nonbar girl girlfriend, that was somewhat cute, though not always my taste.
But most of the girls they picked up and took to their room were bar girls, yeah.
I can go to the regular bar of town though, and gets unlimited phone numbers from regular girls, easily. I have hundreds in my cell phone already. My gf has erased many of them.