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Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
This will be a long post, but allow me to introduce myself
I am a "naturalized" Canadian citizen. I only speak English fluently. I've always had an attraction to white girls, Asian girls as well, but there was something about thin, sharp-featured white girls that turned my eye. I could never understand the fascination as a preteen and teenager, and I never understood why they were in general not attracted to me.
I grew older and became more social. I've always been talkative around people I'm comfortable with and I learned to control, on the surface, the anxiety and fears that come with growing into a sexual being. But I am also as a sexual being of 'lower' class than most of my peers, subjected to the same trivializing jokes about my dick size. I was never actively bullied: I have a large, close group of friends that have more or less stuck together from elementary/jr. high to where we are now (graduating university). But there was something about my self-confidence that I knew was related to my race, I just wasn't actively aware or able to verbalize it.
As a teenager and young adult, I've mostly dated/been involved with white women, all of them attractive, one of them extremely so. She was an extreme neurotic/antisocial personality with little empathy but she had a vulnerability and fragile beauty that drove me bananas. We tormented each other for a while but she won by the end - she was all I could think about for a long time post-breakup. The other relationships all fizzled out before becoming serious, which is partially due to my personality. I can be analytic, bordering on the neurotic and have a family history of bipolar depression. When I'm on my A-Game, though, I've been told I am very fun to be around. Either case, I've always suspected there was some element of exoticism in these women's decisions to date me. I always questioned them about their motivations, and I think all of them could see that the issue of my race bothered me immensely. These insecurities would always come out once the confident exterior I projected wore off.
I hated the idea of being second-best to white men. I sometimes got into fights or confrontations with white guys to see if I could best them and I played rugby with men much larger and stronger than I, resulting in permanent injuries that have given me chronic pain. It's complicated because I can't hate white men just for who they are. My closest friends, whom I consider family, are mostly white guys.
I spent a lot of first and second year university learning how to cope with my problems and reading political / sociological theory about white male privilege and just about how the system is rigged against Asians to begin with because the media caters to a Western standard of beauty. I observed what women said they wanted in a man vs. what they actually went after and began to feel hopeless about finding a long-term relationship: I was physically damaged and had lost weight since high school.. I was Asian, broke and plagued with self-doubt and anger.
One of my friends and I started looking at each other differently, I didn't know her that well as she started hanging out with us at the beginning of college. I chased her around for a while and then we started dating. It's hard to sum her up. She's demure, observant and passive. She was innocent and sexually inexperienced when we started going out. Quiet, so sometimes our conversations suck. But a good girl and she has a great job now, supports herself, isn't cruel to other women although she sometimes judges them, doesn't flirt with other guys (she is an engineer and gets a lot of attention). I think we're in love, at least we tell each other that. We aren't well-matched in terms of interests, but our values are similar and I know we have a deep connection, because we almost broke up and it made us (me anyway) feel terrible. We've had a few big fights because I am often an idiot and she can be demanding and princess-ey (her dad spoiled her). We are both a little f***ed up sexually but I won't get into that.
Anyway one of our big fights was when I found out on our one year anniversary (which is Valentine's day) that she hasn't told her family we've been dating. Her family is very important to her, but they are also racist and know I am in their daughter's life. I think they suspect I am the smitten friend who won't go away. Maybe they even know, I was at graduation as her "date." But If they found out we'd been dating this whole time, they'd really hate me, particularly if I don't get a great job after school. In a weird way, their bigotry made me respect her more because she looked past her family's beliefs whilst still loving them. Her and my family get along fine; her and my mother click well.
Now she's left for work and I see her once every two weeks if things go according to plan. This will go on for two years until her contract ends. She's grown distant since starting her job and is always complaining about exhaustion, how overwhelming all of this new stuff is which is understandable. She came over the other week in an unusually bad mood and said that she wants to end things but doesn't, because she can't see herself marrying me, in part because of her family (and it doesn't help that I knock the idea of marriage all the time) and she doesn't think we are going to survive two years. We are at our best when we're alone and physically close because she is so quiet - skype can't give you that. I told her that we've got something special and if she wants to throw it away she will regret it. She agreed and left, saying she probably didn't want to see me the next day. She didn't call the next day and went back to her work post, and when she texted the day after that, I was furious and told her she shouldn't leave the city without telling me she would be unavailable. She apologized and suggested we wait till the end of the month to figure out what we are going to do, and asked me to call her when I feel ready. I got madder and said there was no way I would contact her and that if she wanted to fix the situation she'd have to take initiative. I went into lockdown mode for the next day and resolved not to call her unless she took the first step. She called today and said that she loves me and she feels better about things and she's willing to try. But she also said she feels she's getting old (she's 23, but I can see where she's coming from) and she wants to think about marriage, or a future at some point down the road. We both agreed we need to take a good look at the problems in our relationship, like her tendency to selfishness, my tendency to be demanding sexually, and the fact that we might be stagnating (movie night too often).
Some guys I know who aren't my friends (I wanted an outsider's perspective) told me she was just stringing me along and the phone was bait to see if I'd fall for it and validate her ego. They think she tried to sleep with another guy and since that didn't work out, she's coming crawling back. I don't really buy that. She called within 24 hours and it doesn't match up with her personality but its possible I trusted her too much. These guys think all women are the same. I don't know if they are, but I believe I love her. She's been good to me in a way that nobody else has. She nags but it's usually over something that I should not be doing anyway, like not staying up till 5 am watching youtube movies and then sleeping for 3 hours before work.
Help me work this out. She says she's willing to keep trying and so am I. A lot of people say that I should dump her and move on, but I think I've found something rare and valuable. They can't look at our situation from the perspective of an Asian man and how desexualized the media portrays us to be and the effect that this subtly has on people's minds. I feel fortunate to be with such a genuinely open-minded girl, and our near break-up scenario made me very unhappy. But I also think it could be impossible with her parents and the whole notion of marriage and the partial long distance. I also worry that I've been blinded by my weakness for blonde hair and blue eyes, which is a taste I've always despised in myself but still find irresistible. I find myself entertaining twisted delusions such as: maybe I only like her because I've "won" a prize from the white man, one of their precious scandinavian-looking woman. Me, from the mongoloid hordes her parents warned her about. But I didn't feel this way about any of my previous girlfriends, some of whom were blonde and most of which were white.
Is this a lost cause, or one worth fighting for? Can anyone relate?
Last edited by HorseFromWater on August 9th, 2013, 2:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Interesting story but I honestly don't understand what you're getting at here. You want to stay with this girl or not? I think you're over analyzing stuff a bit too much. It sounds like she's ready to bail and is already starting to rationalize that inevitable end in her head. She's giving you the soft landing right now. Plus it sounds like you're hung up on this chick because of her looks.
How about I point out her flaws to make you feel better about the break up. She's overweight for one. She seems very moody and immature. You're going to see her once every 2 weeks? That's a death sentence right there for any relationship unless you've been married a long time. Something tells me after she breaks up she'll go on a whoring spree. So typical.
Uh, how can you tell she's overweight? She's in pretty good shape, not skinny but fit. You might have a point on the two weeks, or the fact that she's ready to bail. But I can't make her stay, I can only control what I can do. I'm not going to jump out of the relationship if I think it can work because I think she might dump me first. I don't really care who gets the last laugh.
I also don't think she's about to go on a whoring spree - that was just a bizarre thing to say. I've known this girl for years, my girlfriends have known her for longer. She is far too terrified of strange men, STIs, unwanted pregnancies, penetration in general, to do that.
But thanks for your input.
Wow, sad story bro. I know it's tough being an Asian in a White-dominated society.
In my opinion, f**k what her parents have to say about you, and marry the girl just to piss-off all the racists. If you believe this girl is right for you, than don't be afraid to take the next step.
See...your story indicates just how hard it is for Asian men in Western society--and validates everything I say in my posts (even though I get called a racist or a liar by some people on this forum). People don't like hearing about racial issues for the most part, and just want to ignore it, especially if they're White.
Anyway, good luck to you and I hope you do well in your life. Keep us updated on your situation in the forum. It would be very insightful to other Asian Canadians/Americans on this forum.
She's a good looking chick in my opinion. You're a good-looking Asian yourself. The girl does sound pretty neurotic and difficult from your posts; but, to be honest, most Western women are like that. Are you sure she's the right person for you? And are you willing to put-up with her bull that most Western women like to pull on their men?
Looks overweight to me. I bet she has belly chub too hence the slightly loose fitting dress in pic #2.
I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about. Maybe it'd be better for you to break out of that social group and expand your horizons a bit. I have found that keeping yourself locked into a tight knit group is also very restricting on your social life as well. That doesn't mean you should ditch your friends but expand out of that by meeting new people too.
The best thing for you to do is detach mentally now. Your supplicating and pining beta behavior is disgusting and probably achieves the opposite effect and drives her further away from you. If it ends it ends.
Girls who are neurotic about sex just haven't met the right guy(s) yet.
She's already disrespecting him by not even letting him know when she leaves town and basically throws up an ice wall at will making him come to her for emotional comfort. He's acting like a beta chump and she's showing him how little she actually cares.
Why should he put up with her bullshit when there's already disrespect being shown? Imagine what a terror this 23 year old will be with a ring on her finger. I think the problem western man have is largely with guys like this too. It's not so much that he's asian it's that he's completely weak and letting his emotions get run over. He's even contemplating marriage.
This is everything this forum is against when it comes to western female behavior.
Am I missing something? Where are you in the group photo and where is she? I don't think you've specified that in your post so how does everyone know who you are and who she is in the group photo?
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Winston there's only one asian dude in those photos standing next to a blonde woman. You must be really bad at playing where's waldo.
Relax with the insults. The context is a little different. She just got on the pill again and it messes with her mood, she usually doesn't want sex for the first month. I did, and with birth control I've pressured her to have sex when she didn't want to. On the Saturday before the Sunday that she left, we were exhausted but I was being pushy. Before she left, she told me it was unlikely she would come over the next day. She did not and didn't leave a message. We both knew this was because I was going to push for sex.
This was a shitty thing to do and unusual, but the thing is, I've done this to her before too where I bail out on something or show up late. I don't know if this is scheming woman manipulative behaviour so much as she would rather spend an evening with her family before making a 6 hour drive back to her workplace in the night, so that she can sleep a bit before getting up for a full work week at a job she just started.
I didn't supplicate, I waited for her to contact me and then explained why I was upset and then told her if we were going to continue she needed to call me and make her intentions clear. She kept making an effort to get in touch, which is why I'm thinking about keeping it going.
Nor did I say I'm contemplating marriage. I should be more specific: I am contemplating staying in the relationship with the knowledge that it won't end in marriage and that's going to cause problems.
Last edited by HorseFromWater on August 7th, 2013, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks. It's definitely difficult and maddening in a way that's intangible and skates through society's subway systems. Girls sometimes tell me I am an attractive "for an asian guy." It's a heavily backhanded compliment, as if we are playing in a different league. If I'm out with a white girl, particularly my girlfriend, we get weird looks or strangers saying we "look interesting." Everything is always nuanced with the hesitation that what they are going to say will sound racist. Can't let it ruin you, I suppose.
Honestly dude, I would dump her and find a foreign White women like a Russian or Eastern European (since you seemingly like White women). Why put-up with Western women in general? She sounds just as bad as any of the crazy American/Anglo women I've had the misfortune of meeting (and reading about from other members of the forum) over the years...
You're probably older than I am, so what are some of these signs you are seeing?
When I say she was demanding, it was not demanding for stuff or nice dinners, it was for time and affection. She would always tell me, "I'll be starting work in a year, so let's see each other as much as possible."
I was always down to hang out so that was never an issue.
I agree that my judgement of the situation is impaired, because I am mad at her but also willing to work things out.
I have no idea where to even meet Russian or Eastern European women. Russia/Eastern Europe? I could get a job teaching English overseas, sure, but it seems like an insane adventure to go on in the hopes of getting some p***y (Russia and Eastern Europe are not high on my travel destination list). Do they even like Asian guys?
I would pm Winston for advice; he did well while in Russia. He's the owner of this site and has posted trip reports about his time in Russia. Why don't you take a look at it? And yes, some of the them like Asian men. Phx Sosa has told me in private that some Eastern European women like Asian men.
Also, Cheezeraider and Jackal have seen Asian men with Russian/Eastern European women.
The first girl I ever slept with was a Finnish exchange student, heh. She was really up front and fun, just laid-back about the whole thing. I'll take it one step at a time, still have to work this out and then focus on graduating before I think about moving anywhere.
I'm here for a while so I'm going to be dating Western women if I date. Maybe it's because I'm still in university, but dating hasn't really been a horrible experience overall. Things burn out and get confusing and people play games, but my parents are both immigrants and they went through the same thing. As long as you aren't spending money on dinners all the time...
I do think there are a lot of cool gals out there - unfortunately there are many cooler guys so you do need a way to stand out or find a niche.