Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
How to Spot Fake, Fraudulent, Lying, and Scam Profiles in Online Dating
by Kai and Mrs. Kai
This guide is designed to help MEN figure out how to catch fake, fraud, lying, transgender, and scamming women that create profile on the many dating profile websites out there. This guide will also help guys to vet out the good women they meet and avoid loss of money, time, effort, as well as potential embarrassment. Each region has it's own quirks. Much of this guide will apply to all regions but some breakdowns based on region will be supplied as the content from additional HA members contributors are supplied to this guide. This guide must be a â€œLiving Documentâ€ requiring updates in the future from other HA members, especially if I become inactive on HA in the future. Please seek Winstonâ€™s assistance or the other moderators for providing and updating content to this guide if deemed necessary.
Most of this guide is intended to help with Foreign Women. I will not be addressing content regarding the vetting of American Women, only perhaps using them as a comparison, but if someone is interested in submitting content for that purpose, feel free to submit that information to me or Winston.
This guide will follow this basic format.
1. Ethics, Ethical Hacking, Limitations
2. Foot-printing Work (Investigative)
3. Busting Photoshop Jobs and Technology
4. Busting Liars and Language Barrier Techniques
5. Avoiding Scams, Hooked/Catfishing, Scammers, and Transgender Women
6. Social Engineering (How to get juicy information from women)
7. Regional Quirks
Ethics, Ethical Hacking, Limitations
First letâ€™s quickly discuss some ground rules for Ethics, Ethical Hacking and outright limitations on digging up dirt on women.
1. Some countries have greater privacy rules than the country you are living in. Please keep that in mind.
2. Hacking within the laws of both the country you live in and the targetâ€™s country is okay, but make sure you do your own homework on the various laws regarding that.
3. Doing IP address lookups are legal and okay, as long as you legally obtained their IP address to begin with!
4. Taking photos of women on Webcam chats might be illegal, and most likely unethical, check the local laws first.
5. Please stick to publicly accessible data. A fool will always provide enough rope to hang their own neck. No need to force yourself to rope them.
6. These are women. They are not as logic driven as men so they make mistakes. However! Never underestimate their creativity and passion! Also do not think as if you are better than them logically. Your logic bound tendencies, are merely tendencies. Good intellectual skills are EARNED, beginning with the acknowledgement that you do not anything at all.
Foot-printing Work (Investigative Work)
Dating online for foreign women is a lot of fun, intriguing, and sometimes can be demanding on your time personally. It really is simple overall. Work hard at it and you will succeed. If you are lazy, you will fail. Dating American Women is a shitload of hard work, and not fun. So if you hate online dating and all of your experience is with American dating sites, you need to reconsider trying on foreign dating sites, and drop your biases and baggage at the door. Trying doesnâ€™t hurt at all, especially if you read this guide first.
Also before you start make sure you figure out what strategy you are aiming for. Wife material, is not necessarily FREAK material, and vice versa. Look for context clues in order to build your own profile for these women.
Okay, letâ€™s look at some dating site profiles of some random various women and pick up some context clues.
1. First here is a randomly DateinAsia.com profile: (sticking with 7-10 women for now)
Ok so this first lady has some interesting things in her profile that are red flags depending upon what you are searching for. Wife material or a Freak.
1. She is young but has been a member of the site for well over a year.
2. allegedly a fashion model and student.
3. Face is photoshopped (More on this later).
4. Says her eyes are Brown but the photo shows different.
5. Asks you to subscribe to her Facebook page.
6. Comes off a little Westernized (might be a problem for some of you guys)
Ok the facebook thing is a good bet right now to poke into so when I open it up, this is what we find.
1. She is from Beijing and lives in the Philippines.
2. She has 563 followers (Hello!)
Most of her Facebook account is locked but we can still look at her public profile photos right? YEAH! So lets take a quick peek!
1. A Sausage Fest (Look how many different guys are commenting on this photo)
2. Some guy made a "Fleshlight" comment (She might be a possible freak)
3. Notice the padded push up bra?
4. Photoshopped face (more on this later)
5. This time her eyes are brown (unlike the Date in Asia Picture)
6. The language used on this photo in her page screams Westernized
Ok that's just one thing. How about another one?
1. Tiara on the head a day after Christmas (Possible Princess Issues?)
2. Bad makeup, see the puffiness under the eyes? Could be eyeliner as well.
4. Big breasts this time
5. Cutesy pose Japanese style
6. More ass-kissing male followers (again, a sausage fest)
We have enough now to figure that she might be a
definitely not wife material for most men,
possibly a good candidate for pump-n-dump
Pretty much Westernized
Might be looking for a mangina friends to validate her existence (hence the sausage fest)
I could go on and on, but you guys get the point. Sure you can talk to her to get the whole story, but there is alot to work off of with all this by itself! By the way, I found this profile after 5 mins of signing up to the site. Not all of the profiles are like this, but there are some like this for sure.
Lets do a fun one because that randomly picked one was a bit too easy in some ways.
Here is a Chinese woman from a site Loveme.com. She looks stunning of course for her age. She has obviously used alot of Photoshop to make herself look younger. But she does not have a Facebook and is not Westernized at all! She made one small mistake, and I will show you what I mean. She looks stunning for her age, and no Western woman that looks that good would need to use a dating website, but it is not uncommon for Women this hot to exist on a dating website at that age in Asia, especially China or Japan.
1. She is hot for 45
2. Look at the space between her elbow and waist. (What woman hot or not hot, has a perfect coke bottle shape like that?)
3. The photoshopping is too strong
Click on her Additional Photos and we see more of the same:
1. Come on dawg!? Really? This broad is easily hotter than Hellen Mirren and she is a stone cold fox for her old age!
2. Inconsistent waist size in the photos
3. The 3rd picture has a sloppy photoshop job because the arm on the right is too skinny.
4. Pic 1 and Pic 5 might have the hair photoshopped because the hair looks exactly the same position wise.
So with no Facebook page (She is Chinese and they cannot have those, nor do 98% of them bother if they can), we need to get a little more sneaky and crafty to dig more information.
Which leads us to jump into the almighty GOOGLE!
Google has an image search feature!
Here are some steps on how to use it.
After you upload the picture, you might find some hits.
So she has a few other dating profiles on some other sites. One looks like it is in french and the other in Chinese.
Use Google Chrome when doing stuff like this because it can automatically Translate the foreign language into English for you.
With Google Chrome
OK now! The interesting stuff! Notice the Red Circles on the Original that I made? This old bird gives out her Email address, her Phone number, AND her QQ Number! WOW, although that is not really that unusual, or even difficult to get in a way, but we will cover more of that later in Social Engineering. Also note that she is now 67kg instead of the 50kg she said on Loveme.com.
Here is where, knowing and studying the language and culture of a place comes in handy. The QQ number is like the Facebook for someone in China. Technically their Facebook is called QZONE. They also have Weibo and WECHAT and you can also search those too as well.
OK so if you have a Qzone page yourself or even if you do not, if you try to go visit her Qzone page it will stop you because of her privacy settings.... it asks you to request permission from her but we do not want to do that, unless you do not mind of course, because we are trying to maintain our cover. BUT WAIT! If you download QQ International (english/French,Spanish, etc) Instant Messenger for Android or iPhone and do a contact search on her QQ number, you can see her profile photos!:D
Boom! Found her! Click on her background to see the profile pics!
Hmm...Not quite what we had in mind but let's take a closer look.
Well Well! What do you guys think? She looks nothing like those heavily photoshopped pics she put up before! Like not even close! To be honest, she isnt really that bad looking, and she is FAR FAR better than some of the other fraud Chinese women profiles I have come across in my time, but again, she looks nothing like her loveme.com profile.
Ok so that lady, older I know, but she still helps us to get a little bit of practice on investigating women online. If you fail to find something on Facebook, check around. Find out what Facebook like website the local women use. Check google, check even myspace, keep looking around until you find something, but google is your best friend.
These were softballs for sure, but the point has been made. Most women, especially younger to middle aged women usually do not make shit this easy to find just off their profiles. Contact them first. If they reply back, get a name. Get access to their Facebook page or whatever they use. Ask for their WhatsAPP number, Skype number/username, Yahoo account. Anything. Then drop it into Google or try to access it directly. Comb their friends lists to see what kind of company they keep. What kinds of friends they have. How narcissistic and vain they are.
If you get their Skype username or number whatever, you can try to find their IP address, then you can geo-locate where they are located in the world to see if that matches up with where they say they are. Obviously this is not foolproof and some women, like those in dictatorship/authoritarian countries use proxy tunnels, which could throw it off.
Busting Photoshop Jobs
Busting broads over photoshop can sometimes be hard, especially if they are very good at it, but most of them suck. I will list out some key rules for catching these women red-handed.
1. Check for limb consistency!! This is rule number 1! Do those eyes have the same shapes? See any skinny arms or legs, waists, butts, tits in various poses?
2. Check the lighting on the faces! Does that face look brighter than the surroundings? Compare it to other parts of her skin too.
3. Is photoshopping the norm for her country's culture? Like China and South Korea for example. Everyone and I mean everyone does it. They have apps attached to their facebook-style apps that touch up their faces ON THE FLY!
4. Look at strands of hair in separate pictures and see if they match.
5. Look at those teeth. If her teeth rival a Hollywood star's teeth, you definitely need to run that through a BS check, just to be safe.
6. White makeup or bad light exposure. Asians are terrible about using white face compound makeup. They want to have whiter skin so bad, some of them even look like Japanese Geishas. However, some use makeup and light amounts of Photoshop to trick you. Do not be fooled.
7. Fake moles or sexy imperfections. Just because they have a real looking mole or something somewhere, probably means they are covering up even more crap! Especially if the mole is on the upper part of the face, like around or on the nose.
8. Face is literally flawless. Not saying that there are not any legit 9s and 10s out there. But damn I gotta borrow a line from HA member, Rock on this one. There is incredibly rare for any woman's face to even come close to approaching perfection.
9. Women who get greedy. A glamour shot is okay for sure, but cot damn, don't get greedy! A woman who is a 7 should not Photoshop herself into a 10. A 7 into an 8 is forgivable, but not into a 10. Any woman caught doing this, is showing insecurity and perhaps immaturity. That is easy to exploit or run away from, decide accordingly.
10. Women with big booties or coke-bottle hips. Latin Women are TOUGH to figure out sometimes because there are many out there that can crush and kill a man's soul with their azzes, tits, and hips. So when you find Asians with features like this, call timeout, catch your breath, and begin the process of trying to figure out if it is bullshit or not. Same goes for Latin women. Not all of them are shaped like that!
11. Using magazine, online store, and clothing models. Some of you guys like doing dumb shit like this too to the ladies, for fun or dumb experiments that have already been beaten to death already. Asian scammers tend to use heavily photoshopped magazine models to catfish guys. I will show some examples later.
12. Young women have acne. Most of them do in fact. Some will Photoshop just the acne, some will do the whole face. If you find a pretty girl with acne in a normal picture, dig deeper and send her a message buddy!
13. Tranny/Transgender/Ladyboys like to photoshop their Adam's Apples, noses, and collar bones alot. Check those spots. They photoshop their sideburns too. Check there as well.
Here are some examples of photoshopped profiles: (light to heavy and sloppy to possible expert level) (Can you spot the possible tranny?)
We could chop down and break these photos down all night long but if we keep it relatively simple, we can make quick decisions on if you should bother messaging any of these women. Feel free to offer your opinions and feedback on these selections as well!
1. Pretty obvious to me at least. If she is not BSing, she is approaching 10 face wise at least.
2. I think she has Photoshopped her face basically. Her body is banging and she is 20 if memory serves me right, so the body is not likely bullshit, white women have large tits but smaller asses, but that face makes me wonder what she is hiding, because she is a white girl to begin with and her makeup face compound is quite white....
3. This one is beyond obvious one. She looks like a muppet as well as completely and utterly retarded. Chinese people like to call people who look like this (sha bi, which means stupid c*nt)
4. This girl probably is pretty but she looks to be covering up acne or something. It's very rare for a girl where she is from to look like that. The pic is smudgy a little and fuzzy on the edges as well.
5. This one is probably a tranny. I could be wrong, but if I am, she is very manly looking. The collar bone is touched up, her neck is too wide, the adam's apple may have been shaved off due to surgery or airbrushed away using Photoshop. The face is airbrushed and that ear looks like a man's ear. The eyes looks a little deranged and too serious looking. Like a nervous young man's dating profile would look. Men are not naturally soft in appearance, like unhard women are. Ladyboys, especially in Asia alter their hormones to soften their feature and to act more feminine.
Hormones wont mask a creepy pervert eye stare. Only horny men have that problem. Nice try, but not good enough to pass my bul*shit check.
6. Check out her profile. She obviously is pissed off that some men thinks she is a ladyboy. If she was, she would be an extremely high end top shelf ladyboy. She offers more pics of herself on a flickr page.
Obviously she is a fan of Japanese hairstyles and has on a shirt with Japanese characters. She has a slight tomboyish look to her and she is 30 years old and works in media industry. She has short hair too. She also lives in Guangzhou and visits Thailand on vacation. It is easy to see why some might think she is a ladyboy. However she is is pretty good at using Photoshop or touching up her photos. She is also good at photography too. Also, in China she qualifies for a "sheng nu" which means leftover woman. Even if she is super cute, she is too old for any man that can handle her, because there are plenty of 20 year olds that look that cute too. Hence perhaps the reason she is dating online, not to mention her free spirit vibe she gives off too (may not be an obedient wifey girl).
7. This one is extremely cute. Photoshop or not. She is also Vietnamese, which can make it tough to tell just how hot she really is due to her makeup. Vietnamese women can be soul-crushing hot or cute, even without makeup. If she used photoshop, it was not overdone, but it makes it kinda tough to really say for sure. One thing is that she is young with damned good English. She has to be fairly popular and gets plenty of emails. What do you guys think? Give some feedback on number 7.
Last edited by kai1275 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:24 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Avoiding Scams, Hooked/Catfishing, Scammers, and Transgender Women
Getting scammed can happen to any man. Even a lightly seasoned veteran can get hooked. The difference is the amount of loss you take when getting tricked. If a broad tricks you out of 20 dollars, no bid deal. If you get tricked out of 2,000+ dollars, then you got a motherf*cking problem.
Rule number 1: Never wire or send women money online! Period!
I don't give a damn if she says her momma died or her daddy died, her brother got jailed, etc... say NO! You are not superman, and you are not Donald Trump! How do you think Donald made all that money in the first place? By not giving women all his money!!
Obviously the decision is always yours, but if you have not even met her in person you are taking an enormous risk. If you have been over there once or more and you know her very well, then give within reason. Another important thing to do is to SET EXPECTATIONS AT THE BEGINNING! This is KEY! Let her know that until you guys meet or decide to get married, you cannot and will not send her any large amounts of money. If she says okay, then proceed. If she says that will be a problem? NEXT! and keep on truckin'....
If you let them run you on this issue, what do you think is gonna happen when you move over there? Around her FAMILY?! Or if you move her to the US with you? Then you are super f*cked. Do not become the poster child for that man, that most HA guys swear up and down is the idiot for bringing a woman to the US because she will become Americanized. Any woman like that now, will be worse later, no matter where you live and that is just the plain ol truth.
There are so many scams that FW around the globe try to run on guys. I will list all of the known common ones here. Remember that since this is a living document it will be good to keep this updated as much as possible.
1. Sick family member/Relative
2. School Fees
3. Investment opportunities
5. Talk of Marriage Arrangements
6. Dowry Demands
7. Misfortune struck them
8. You got them pregnant
9. Playing Captain Save-A-Hoe/Playing a White Knight on a Horse
10. Identity Thieves
There is no need to pull these out into details and tell stories because it is self explanatory. Many HA guys are pretty tight assed and don't trust anyone but there is always a new guy and there are many desperate men, usually older, that will make this mistake. If it didn't work, they would not try it.
Getting Hooked or Catfished usually means you are perceiving a potential wife/gf as a legitimate partner but the reality is that she is:
1. Much uglier or different than the pictures you have seen
2. Actually a man, ladyboy, Tranny, etc.
3. A prostitute, bar worker, other professional working girl (Golddiggers too)
4. Older or younger than you think they are
5. A foreign police officer/agent
6. A US agent/police officer
7. A gang member phishing you for information to exploit you or your family
8. Human Trafficker/Drug Smuggler
1-4 either want money or gay sex from you and is not complicated to understand how and why. Never give out intimate knowledge about your finances. Never give away bank information.
5-6 Are usually trying to snag pedophilles, child smugglers, slave traffikers and other kinds of undesirable scum. Some might be doing that in order to screw you personally,professionally, or politically. Getting wrapped up in shit like this usually will easily ruin a mans life in the West at least, true or not. The best strategy is to not actively seek underage girls. Some countries make it much easier to have sex with underage girls, but it is not always a good idea to get involved in that. Manage your risks accordingly.
7-8 might be trying to get you to send them money for things of this nature, set you up abroad, or use you a drug mule. Again don't give money, do not indulge in children, get involved in child adoption schemes, and NEVER let anyone else touch your f***ing travel bags and luggage! Not even your girlfriend! Always check it right before going to an airport as well! Check it again before going through customs! Especially if you are traveling in Latin America. People that smuggle dope are smarter than you think they are. Check for hidden compartments and if you are stupid enough to knowingly become a drug mule, please watch the entire "Locked Abroad" series from the Discovery Channel first before doing that.
For 5-8, assume that you have at least a few enemies in your life. Whether you know who they are or not. Everyone has enemies! No exceptions! Protect yourself at all times like a good boxer or fighter would. Don't assume the US govt. will respect the rule of law on your behalf as well. They ruin the lives of whistleblowers these days and easily get away with it. The glory days of muck-raking journalism are long gone and over with. If you work for a govt. contractor or sensitive govt defense matters, watch what you say here and abroad. Some foreign govts. know who you are and might f**k with you, so always maintain a low profile. Jealous people have no limits. The amount they know about you can be limited or restricted however, so keep your "swag" down to reasonable limits.
Also please check some of the scam stories on some of the online dating websites as well. Some sites keep a good log of activity. You can use this to your advantage as well. Nothing wrong with having too many resources to read up on. Especially if you require a picture to be painted for you to understand these things. This guide is relatively short and initially will not have any stories at this time to read.
These types can take a little skill to catch if they have extensive surgeries. Some make it obvious and some are not so obvious, unless you know what to look for. Latin ones are pretty damn easy to catch. Their features are just too strong. I think I may have seen only one that could fool almost anyone but I never saw a name to find a picture of her/him. The ones that fool most men are the Asian kinds. Even Asian women sometimes have a hard time recognizing one. Some are damn near impossible. I will provide some of each for samples. Note the red circles on some of them.
Obvious one, not trying to hide it.
Check out her deltoid on her shoulder. Her hands as well.
This one might fool someone just because of the pose and photoshop using airbrush to make her manly features less rough.
Men usually have longer forearms than real women. If you are super f***ing skinny as a man, it just looks more obvious. This one has nose and chin issues as well. Also look for lean muscles around the neck and collarbone. These are things that makeup and photoshop cannot cover up easily.
Nong Poy is a very famous one for a reason and my wife could not even tell she was a man. Xiongmao even tried to quiz other HA guys with her. I caught it because of her fingers and wrist. See if you can see what I mean.
Conclusion: Many Ladyboys are not stupid enough to use white skin makeup unlike the Asian women, some use hormone replacement therapy, and newer surgery techniques make it easier to get fooled. Some even are post op and have fake pussies these days. I would post a pic, but I think that would force Winston to move to the NSFW subforum, not sure actually. The same reason why I cannot use below the waist gotchas for possible trannies, but usually there is enough to work with from the waist up. If it took seeing that to catch one, you probably missed a good clue further up anyway.
If you are ever in doubt of one, I STRONGLY RECOMMEND asking a longtime/expert/senior HA member what they think of the woman. Rock, AmericanInBangkok, Falcon, Xiongmao, Taco, DJfourmoney, Repatriate, MGuy, Theprimebait, Zboy1, SkateboardStephen, E. Irrizarry, etc. All these guys have seen many things and have good eyes for certain details. Some like Xiongmao deal with them everyday probably. Send them a PM if you do not want to be embarrassed. I am very certain they will not try to shame or humiliate you just for asking. A few might provide some tough love lecture, but I am sure they would love to help you figure it out. The only dumb question is the one you do not ask. Don't just ask or rely on Winston's opinion on a possible ladyboy either, certain others here are much faster and accurate at recognizing them like Rock.
Last edited by kai1275 on Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
Social Engineering (How to get juicy information from women)
In the world of Cyber/Computer Hacking, us IT professionals have a legitimate area of Information Security called Social Engineering. Before any idiot comes in here whining and crying about, OMG Thiz is PUA Bull$hit Dudez! Quite frankly, STFU. Seriously.
What is Social Engineering? Here is a definition from wiki:
Social engineering, in the context of information security, refers to psychological manipulation of people into performing actions or divulging confidential information. A type of confidence trick for the purpose of information gathering, fraud, or system access, it differs from a traditional "con" in that it is often one of many steps in a more complex fraud scheme.
The term "social engineering" as an act of psychological manipulation is also associated with the social sciences, but its usage has caught on among computer and information security professionals
Social Engineering is real. VERY VERY Real. I don't have the time nor would most here bother to read it, but if you have any IT skills at all, please check out the Annual Verizon Data Breach Investigation Reports. Check the past year ones as well. The cliff notes is that the HUMAN ELEMENT of Network Security is THE WEAKEST LINK! What is the human element? Lets break it down a little bit:
Case 1: Ever have someone "Piggyback behind someone" at the office door, because they said that they left their Employee badge at home? What if you did not recognize that employee? What if he was hired to break into your company's network by management? What if he really was a legit hacker with a laptop or tablet looking for a empty cubicle to plug in, effectively bypassing millions of dollars worth of firewalls! If you were on camera letting him into your building's floor, you might get fired... In this case you are the weak link.
Well that is an easy one these days, and many companies nowadays put things like this in their employee training.
Case 2: Imagine a hacker dressing up like a FEDEX or UPS guy, with a box or something, comes in to a company and starts chatting with the secretary of some other employee about who the manager is, and what their name is so that they can deliver a package. Sometimes they want a signature so that they can use that for credit fraud schemes. Sometimes they pretend to be a plumber, AC repair guy, or electrician coming in for a service call and they want you to take them to the wiring closet or the roof, etc. They are smooth talking, oozing with confidence, and you let them in. They get in the network, make you sign for a box filled with paper or cloth strips..., or now they know the names of people in middle management. Now they can figure out what their email address is based on naming scheme or use a signature to perform fraud because they made a copy of the credit card of that boss at a restaurant a week before!
All from fast talking, persistent aggression, and confidence! If some stranger asks you the names of your kids, your husband, where you guys live, your birthday date, the name of all your dogs, in the same f***ing day or even a week, they might be fishing for your passwords!! Ever see people in a busy downtown with petition signups for free shit or PETA, Tea Party, etc. they might be data mining for SUCKERS!!!!! One idiot is going to write down their work email address and not their personal one!!!!
Hackers, Spies, Corporate Espionage Artists, or Social Engineers prey on naive people and people who talk too f***ing much. They think outside of the box. They even dig in f***ing garbage cans for stuff. Whatever it takes to get what they need. Their motivations almost ALWAYS are money. All PUA, is a poor-man's Social Engineering/Espionage/Hacking techniques in order to get p***y from women. Just like in the PUA world, in the Social Engineering world not all attempts are successful, nor are all marks easy pickings. There is luck involved and some people are better at it than others. An older clean cut white guy trying to shit test some company filled with older white guys and women, might find more success as opposed to a minority or a woman. In some cases a fat, dirty smelling minority with his pants falling off his ass, coming to fix a broken AC system might be more successful than any white guy that has no dirt under his fingernails!!
Case 3: A few years ago, the Information Security world was shaken hard by APT (Advanced Persistent Threat) or Spear Phishing. These attacks combined malware/trojan horse viruses with EMAILS sent with Attachments that was written in such a way that an employee would be dumb enough, or curious enough, to open it up and check it out. Google, RSA, are just a couple of large companies that had information stolen by this Social Engineering + Technology trick. There is not a magic firewall to destroy stuff like this, although some make these claims, and there is not enough corporate training to stop every single one either.
The bottom line is that the CIA, NSA, FBI, Verizon, RSA, DHS, IDF, and any other government or security company realizes the seriousness of these threats and trains against them. PUA, Game, Social Engineering, Espionage, etc. are all very real. What they are not, is complete bullshit. Only an unintelligent, unknowledgable, and unsophisticated person would deny that these things are real. I have made plenty money myself off of these kinds of hackers personally. As long as there are suckers out there, these kinds of people will always eat well.
Now that we have that covered. Let's see how Social Engineering can help you bust women or avoid getting scammed or hooked yourself.
Before we get started, let's make something clear. Women are not ninjas. Women are actually not all that complicated. What they are is STUBBORN! They are all stubborn to some degree. In order to begin working on them for information let's break down the order of tasks needed to achieve the desired result. Just remember it goes both ways. Give them a reason to look for problems you have and even if they are not as smart as you are, that stubbornness will not let them give up so easily. You have been officially warned.
1. Always define your goal first. Do you want to catch them in a lie? Confirm that they are a real women, normal, rich, poor, stupid, intelligent. Do you want a friend or just some p***y. etc. etc.
2. A woman with nothing to share about herself is not worth ANYONE'S time! Period! She actually might be scammer trying to FISH YOU!
3. Stay in your lane! Don't FRONT like you are involved in shit that is not really true! Don't tell hoes you breakdance at the club and clear out the dance floor, when in fact you never go to the club at all!
4. Don't lie. Just like number 3, you cannot sink down to their level because if they pass your shi.t check, then eventually they will catch you in a lie!
5. Balance aggression to avoid coming off as desperate. If you ask a woman for her Facebook or blog and she says no. Either find it yourself or wait her out a bit. Don't put too much pressure on her at first.
6. Organize the things you will need access from ahead of time before fishing the target.
7. Don't hack the target. Access what they give you and do not break the law or Terms of Service of the softwares you are using.
8. Stick to the basics, keep it simple, however if presented with a good segway during a conversation see where it leads.
9. Build character profiles based on Personality Types (Type AB (kinda outdated), MBTI, Jungian, Keirsey Temperament, etc.) and exploit their personality flaws and weaknesses. The CIA does this and develops it's own secret methods and research on this and it works. (This is Advanced for most of you, but still a good rule) You might have to buy some books to learn the basics. Make friends with psychologists and mental health professionals to learn even more. Occupational Psychologists are among the best to learn from. Believe it or not but the internet has very little to share about this, at the price of free..... You would not believe the amount of money spent on this stuff. The secrets are guarded tightly!
10. Use social networks, the target's friends, and general emotional weaknesses tied to "emotional" things that appeal to women in order to obtain more information about their lives, but NOT in a condescending way!
Social Engineering Techniques
I do not have a nicer way to organize all the techniques so here is just a raw dump of what to do and how to do it.
1. When combing a target for information, always blend it in naturally in regards to another subject. Avoid asking them directly for certain things. Certain things are okay, such as what is your age?, etc.
2. Watch your speed. Sometimes talking too fast and quickly will expose you. Some cultures have slower speaking and operating folks. Sometimes I am too impatient with Mrs. Kai because I like working too fast on things. Women from laid back cultures, are more sensitive to fast paced New York style work and stress. Remember the goal is to make them comfortable and keep them that way.
3. Learn how to mix your techniques. Talking the talk on the phone is one thing. Can you mix it up with Skype, Email, Instant Messages, SMS Text Messages, Facebook Messages, WhatsAPP, WeChat, FaceTime. Attempting different styles of communication can help you determine how tech savvy or intelligent they are as well.
4. Observe their interactions with others, especially family. This helps you build a Psychological Profile. How they act with family is quite possibly how they will treat you. Look for "trust issues".
5. Attempting to befriend their friends. Very useful and powerful especially if you have the language skills to do so. Iron sharpens iron. If all of their friends are shitty people, you can bet your ASS, they are hiding something big. Especially their social network friends. 1 or 2 people is a poor representation, but 10-15 friends that are trashy people, and you may want to see what makes them all common.
6. Use questions about spelling or grammar/speech usage of their native language to see what kind of general temperament they have. (Checking their patience to teach or talk)
7. Sh*tTest them for the basics. Test them out on their actual location, educational background, age, physical appearance, etc.. After that avoid hard questioning and use more subtle approaches.
8. Try not to use lies for a Sh*tTest. For example, talking about a fake place that is in another country, but asking them if they live there or something. Not only does that develop animosity, you must be sure this is a person you do not mind blocking immediately. There are usually more tasteful ways to deal with that....
9. Use props. Sometimes a shiny object or something of interest or hatred can provide useful distractions as you extract pertinent information about someone.
10. Use gifts. Sometimes sending a woman flowers or even a few roses can not only make her p***y moist, but also make her give you the keys to that brain too. Roses are not cheap to some of you guys, but sometimes information is worth more than some stupid flowers when you need to see how much time you need to put into a woman. Besides, practicing seduction is always good.
11. Use other people. Bringing up others or involving others can sometimes give you more insight into a person's mind. eg. Is that something your Brother/friend/mother, etc does too! How Cool! Target: Well actually my brother does something else... yadda yadda..
12. Use jokes and humor. Try not to over do it, but something sending someone a provocative joke can help you figure out clues, especially if they are very chatty.
13. Force yourself to be very interested in things that are of no interest. Alot of times, it is the way the information is being relayed that is the actual good stuff, not the corny ass TV show they are discussing.
14. Try not to work on too many woman at once. You risk getting information mixed up. Women get hyper-fixated on silly shit like that, Especially Western and Western-Exposed Women. Those are the ball of yarns that they are constantly looking for.
15. Avoid "Friendzone". Friends are not always privy to intimate details, but some women tell their friends more things than a lover. Seduction on friends is pretty advanced actually as well. Basically you do not want to be funny all the time, too open and engaging, available to discuss drama, etc. "Being a Good Friend" basically. You can get what you need in short sessions. Don't overdo it.
16. Circumvent their ass kissers, sausage-festivals, and nosy friends. Stay on target until you get what you need. You can humor the addons briefly but stay on task concerning the target. If you get into their world, then you lose the ability to dictate terms or pull information quickly. It will force you to play along which wastes a lot of time.
17. Think like an "Alpha". If sometimes being crass, crude, blunt, and rude might get you some information, by all means do it, but the best policy is to mix it up.
18. Learn certain college/university level Communication Degree (or certain large corporations) taught Communication Techniques like:
1. Redirection is basically the technique of changing the subject. Getting a person to focus on your objective. If you are a customer service phone person and someone called you for help, be sure to redirect the talkative person back to the task at hand when they start discussing the weather, sports, family drama, some dumb TV show, etc.
B) Call Control
1. Call Control is a technique used when speaking on the phone with someone. You can use disclaimers to appear soft, but actually you are being aggressive in maintaining control of the conversation. For example, "My apologies if we discussed this before but...." Pretending to have heard a word spoken as something else, then changing the subject into what you need. "Ah I see, well I hope everything works out fine, but what if we can <insert>.
Some of these techniques can get ultra-advanced, but without excellent fluency, might be hard to fully utilize in some ways with FW, but still very useful even if you are not using it for professional work or sales work.
19. Do not place restrictions nor tell them what you hate. This is very good for super super picky men.
20. You must give a little information about yourself in order to get alot sometimes. Especially with very smart women. Fake information is not recommended if you actually like the woman in a serious way. Dont whine to others if you cannot get much because you are being a stingy as.s your ownself.
21. Traditional women, especially younger ones, like to mimic the men they look up to. So if they notice what you are doing, they will try it too. You can use that curiosity and admiration to your advantage.
*Important*The more you learn and the more techniques you gain, the less you actually have to use Social Engineering to obtain information. Profile building techniques have the unintended benefit, or curse for some, to become so intuitive when studying a target, that you are able to figure her out within a few minutes to a T. Some men love the thrill of the hunt or the chase. If you are one of these men, avoid doing this too much. If you have limited time and want fast results, invest in social techniques.
Playing games with women has risks. Never underestimate any woman's intelligence. If you want to experiment stuff like this with women that have no chance of being your wife, it makes for excellent practice if you have the time to do so, that is.
1. Dancing around social/political/race Issues to see what kinds of reactions you can get out of them, to see what makes them get emotional to build Psych Profiles.
2. Head games. Very complex to fully extrapolate, but an example would be planting fake information in the heads of one of their friends that you know will go back and tell....dramatic stuff. If you have skills like this, chances are good you do not need this guide, honestly. I don't recommend it.
3. Logical Reasoning/Verbal Logic Reasoning trickery. Most HA people have no f***ing clue what this means, but for those of you that do, try catching targets in circular or irrational arguments.
4. Use fake accounts to either tempt or Sh*Test the target. Careful because if she told you something she knows that only 2 or 3 people in the world knows, you will be busted.
5. Using Regular Technique number 14 above, against the woman herself. I highly don't recommend this.
6. Using Regular Technique number 16 above, against the woman herself. Not recommended.
7. Get them to sign up for something fake or something you control.
8. Hiring private investigators in their country to background check them and their family. Might be cheaper than you think it is. Depends upon the country too.
9. Fake arguments and fights. Fake conflicts to test resolve. Not recommended.
10. Fake confusion to determine their level of mental acuity. Not recommended.
Sometimes life causes these things to happen naturally but you have to pay attention well enough to see these things and take note!
Last edited by kai1275 on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:04 pm, edited 7 times in total.
In this last section. We will provide quirks that women in certain regions do. This section will always need HA member participation. Please provide quirky things that women in Region X do to trick or appeal to foreigners online.
Someone asked for before and after shots of women busted over photoshop. This is something NE Asian women do alot. It's annoying but not impossible to catch. It also give you a reason to take this more seriously.
Here ya go: (Courtesy of HA member Scarlet, THANKS!)
As you can see. All of them made their faces whiter, changed their eyes, and gave themselves doll like hair. One funny thing is that these Chinese women, that are prone to doing these things, are airbrushing themselves to appeal to East Asian men instead of Western men. Like I once told Rock before in another thread, Chinese men like white porcelain skin first, skinny, long hair, very young, etc. more than stuff Westerners like, such as big tits, height, hips and waist ratios, nice ass and thighs/legs, real hair, clear skin without acne, big smiles, etc. etc.
That is how you catch immature Asian women red-handed. Having big eyes and looking like a 12 year old girl usually appeals to hebephiles. Most Asian men in Asia like that because the age of consent can be extremely low, like China's is 14. That cute innocent look is appealing to some Westerners but even then, most of them like that 17-21 look on girls, but a 12-15 year old look, is a tad disgusting to them. Many Westerners like larger features like breasts, legs, and ass, etc. so that usually requires a real woman, not a prepubescent one....
If they really wanted a Western man, they would Photoshop their waists, ass, and tits, like some Latino women do on Facebook. Ahhh....but fraud females never do actually think something through do they?:wink:
Feel free to add more here to this section. Contact Winston, Rock, or Zboy1 for additions.
Last edited by kai1275 on Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Holy shitballs batman! Ashley Le, the Vietnamese chick made the first move and hit me up the other day on DIA. She seems legit. I talked to her on skype today. Only time will tell as I screen her if stuff adds up or not.
LOL! Well.....if you start getting close to her, let me know so I can replace her on this guide with someone else. I don't want your shit out in the middle of the street. You got a good eye though. If she is legit she is definitely in your league too. She would probably treat you like a king too. All guys I personally know with hot vietnamese wives always have a shit eating grin on their faces.
Oh yeah for sure I'll let you know. I definitely want to contribute with my own profile sightings to this thread to help keep it going. Good shit here man!
Kai1275, great info and thanks for your efforts!
Wish I knew how to paste this picture and text, but here's a link to the profile of a 23-year old Ukrainian girl on AFA:
Any red flags in this profile? My initial thought is she's had lots of plastic surgery and is a prostitute.
Last edited by Halwick on Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
I don't see anything fake about #7 (Ashley Le).
Her story makes sense.
Her self-description sounds real.
Thanks Kai. Interesting new guide u started here.
That one gal is a tranny, no ifs and or buts. She's more obvious than most. Jawline and overall look is a dead giveway. Even Rumor Willis doesn't have a jaw like that.
As for Viet girl, I don't see the hotness so if all u guys think she's an 8 or above, I'm not seeing it.
What I find amazing is that Kai has actually posted something intelligent for once. Well done. I didn't know you had it in you. Yes we should have more stuff like this.
And this :
When I get back later today, I will take a deeper look.
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