Why is there so much alpha/beta talk on here?

[mattyman]

Why is there this idea that, if one is dateless, it must be entirely themselves to blame? I'm commenting specifically on the recent number of threads that have been about loneliness, datelessness and not being able to find a date for years.

Firstly, about this whole idea of learning game;
What I disagree with most is people being told to fit someone' else's idea of what attractive is, to be something they're not. Having to fit a persona that's not necessarily right for them, which will no doubt attract people that are not necessarily the right for you.

If you have problems in that area, other people don't necessarily know what the specifics are, they don't know what you're after. Not only that, some people suggest. It's easy to blame individuals without facts of one's situation and without being in a proper position to judge. It's just a symptom of the narcissism so rampant in this generation.

What I disagree with is this idea that guys who are sensitive should change their personality to something more aggressive and edgy. f***ing rubbish! Not all women want that, that's not right for everybody. You simply need to be comfortable being THAT self around women you find attractive, to the degree that you can interact with them normally, that's it.

As long as you can talk to women, as long as you don't read too much into the slightest bit of friendliness too much you should be fine. Think more in terms of what you want vs. what boxes you have to tick before you're eligible for it. Forget rules and regulations. Don't take responsibility for other people's behaviour. Some people are incredibly shallow and do have their priorities completely messed-up when it comes to what they want in a partner. Shallow things like height, job status etc. are a piss-poor indicator as to what someone's like to get on with, whether you could stand their company, whether you'll laugh at the same things, feel a sense of commonality, don't have toxic traits, make you comfortable etc. After all, my impression is that 90% of the complaints about American/western women are about just that, having priorities completely WRONG. Don't try to appease it for heavens sake. You can't take responsibility for that.

The other thing I want to comment on;
What I also disagree with is people who are socially awkward being labelled as losers. If I ran this forum I would make it the sort of place that's approachable to people who fit that bill. After all, you cannot really blame them can you? Especially if they've come from a situation of social isolation, and haven't had much dealings with friendly women before, or have felt strongly overlooked. If that's the case, it's not exactly fair to blame them for it, more so to label.

I agree to a degree that we do have a power over how we perceive our situation and how we attribute what happens to us, but it's all too easy to take it too far, and end-up unfairly blaming the victim.

[HouseMD]

Because only betas actually use the alpha/beta dichotomy to describe human relationships, and this place is crawling with betas.

[travelsouth]

Because only betas actually use the alpha/beta dichotomy to describe human relationships, and this place is crawling with betas.

Maybe that's one way to look at it I suppose. For whatever reason (feminism/ex-wife wearing a guy down over time maybe) a lot of guys do need that man up advice. If you are dating some poor girl in Colombia she will be used to how Colombian men treat her. There is a big difference between what most of those Colombian men are doing and the average feminized American man interested in this foreign woman thing.

You hear it all the time about Russian women walking all over p***y guys and Asians too. Those little princesses can turn into a dragon around a beta with no confidence. So I suppose the moral of the story is you've got to get your balls back before heading overseas. And if you are just a very "nice" guy you might as well plan on booking that trip to the Philippines and see how that goes.

[mattyman]

"You hear it all the time about Russian women walking all over p***y guys and Asians too. Those little princesses can turn into a dragon around a beta with no confidence. So I suppose the moral of the story is you've got to get your balls back before heading overseas. And if you are just a very "nice" guy you might as well plan on booking that trip to the Philippines and see how that goes."

It's just a matter of common sense. There are toxic people everywhere. The biggest danger for a not so confident 'nice' guy is to fall madly for the first woman who gives him time of of day without having any awareness of warning signs of highly toxic traits. nor having an idea of how to deal with it.

As for women who do take advantage of/walk-all over guys who're not that confident/assertive, sure there are many examples and many horror stories, but even so, this is one type of toxic women that you find everywhere. I think that instead of labelling not-so-confident/assertive guys as 'pussies', 'beta's or 'nice guys' it'd be much more constructive to help them become aware of possible dangers, and help them build their ability to stand-up to and deal with the above situation should it arise. Also, by no means should any guy who fits that bill be lead to believe the above situation is inevitable.

about labelling;
What I was pointing out was the excess use of labelling which I honestly think is not helpful to a lot of those not-so-assertive, or possibly naiive guys that some of you describe as 'p***y-whipped'.

about alpha/beta thing;
What I am against though is the idea one, if of a naturally sensitive disposition, has got to be tough, hard, macho, totally devoid of sensitivity etc. as one's idea of what's 'alpha' vs. a more confident version of themselves, not giving a shit about other people's ideas of who they are etc.

[travelsouth]

"You hear it all the time about Russian women walking all over p***y guys and Asians too. Those little princesses can turn into a dragon around a beta with no confidence. So I suppose the moral of the story is you've got to get your balls back before heading overseas. And if you are just a very "nice" guy you might as well plan on booking that trip to the Philippines and see how that goes."

It's just a matter of common sense. There are toxic people everywhere. The biggest danger for a not so confident 'nice' guy is to fall madly for the first woman who gives him time of of day without having any awareness of warning signs of highly toxic traits. nor having an idea of how to deal with it.

As for women who do take advantage of/walk-all over guys who're not that confident/assertive, sure there are many examples and many horror stories, but even so, this is one type of toxic women that you find everywhere. I think that instead of labelling not-so-confident/assertive guys as 'pussies', 'beta's or 'nice guys' it'd be much more constructive to help them become aware of possible dangers, and help them build their ability to stand-up to and deal with the above situation should it arise. Also, by no means should any guy who fits that bill be lead to believe the above situation is inevitable.

about labelling;
What I was pointing out was the excess use of labelling which I honestly think is not helpful to a lot of those not-so-assertive, or possibly naiive guys that some of you describe as 'p***y-whipped'.

about alpha/beta thing;
What I am against though is the idea one, if of a naturally sensitive disposition, has got to be tough, hard, macho, totally devoid of sensitivity etc. as one's idea of what's 'alpha' vs. a more confident version of themselves, not giving a shit about other people's ideas of who they are etc.

Well even the most confident man should know the warning signs. You can be as confident as you like and regardless there are girls that are just slash your tires crazy. So yea the bottom-line is don't put up with garbage. But eventually you either sink or swim. So just be nice but don't take a bunch of crap either. You can't fix these bad relationships (especially with BS starting early). Idle threats and talks won't fix it. You simple gotta dump the trash and move on to something better.

[mattyman]

Well even the most confident man should know the warning signs. You can be as confident as you like and regardless there are girls that are just slash your tires crazy. So yea the bottom-line is don't put up with garbage. But eventually you either sink or swim. So just be nice but don't take a bunch of crap either. You can't fix these bad relationships (especially with BS starting early). Idle threats and talks won't fix it. You simple gotta dump the trash and move on to something better.

Absolutely; As with women who stay in abusive, bad-boy relationships for the idea that they can change someone, or for fear of being alone, I think the same thing can happen with guys too. Take for instance someone coming from a shitty social background, who's used to women not even giving him the time of day, who's been dateless for ages, and is used to nothing but scowls and dirty looks from women. There is a real danger that someone from such a background could end-up falling for the first person to show him any interest, and clinging to her for dear life, even if they become highly toxic, putting-up with bullshit.

Even so, I wouldn't say such low-self-esteem is beta, or suggest that people who're in that situation are any less worthy of healthy positive relationships than anyone else. I think that any advice that can help guys coming from such a background avoid, be prepared for and to deal with situations like this would be highly constructive. I swear I've seen this talked about in other posts on this site before 'don't fall for the first one that gives you time of day'.

[tre]

Why is there this idea that, if one is dateless, it must be entirely themselves to blame? I'm commenting specifically on the recent number of threads that have been about loneliness, datelessness and not being able to find a date for years.

Firstly, about this whole idea of learning game;
What I disagree with most is people being told to fit someone' else's idea of what attractive is, to be something they're not. Having to fit a persona that's not necessarily right for them, which will no doubt attract people that are not necessarily the right for you.

If you have problems in that area, other people don't necessarily know what the specifics are, they don't know what you're after. Not only that, some people suggest. It's easy to blame individuals without facts of one's situation and without being in a proper position to judge. It's just a symptom of the narcissism so rampant in this generation.

What I disagree with is this idea that guys who are sensitive should change their personality to something more aggressive and edgy. f***ing rubbish! Not all women want that, that's not right for everybody. You simply need to be comfortable being THAT self around women you find attractive, to the degree that you can interact with them normally, that's it.

As long as you can talk to women, as long as you don't read too much into the slightest bit of friendliness too much you should be fine. Think more in terms of what you want vs. what boxes you have to tick before you're eligible for it. Forget rules and regulations. Don't take responsibility for other people's behaviour. Some people are incredibly shallow and do have their priorities completely messed-up when it comes to what they want in a partner. Shallow things like height, job status etc. are a piss-poor indicator as to what someone's like to get on with, whether you could stand their company, whether you'll laugh at the same things, feel a sense of commonality, don't have toxic traits, make you comfortable etc. After all, my impression is that 90% of the complaints about American/western women are about just that, having priorities completely WRONG. Don't try to appease it for heavens sake. You can't take responsibility for that.

The other thing I want to comment on;
What I also disagree with is people who are socially awkward being labelled as losers. If I ran this forum I would make it the sort of place that's approachable to people who fit that bill. After all, you cannot really blame them can you? Especially if they've come from a situation of social isolation, and haven't had much dealings with friendly women before, or have felt strongly overlooked. If that's the case, it's not exactly fair to blame them for it, more so to label.

I agree to a degree that we do have a power over how we perceive our situation and how we attribute what happens to us, but it's all too easy to take it too far, and end-up unfairly blaming the victim.

I don't understand the Alpha/Beta thing much. Many seem to think they are "stuck" as a Beta which doesn't make any sense. Doing the same things over and over again and never changing anything will give a person consistent results for a certain period of time (until it gets worse). If a young man is not having ANY luck with women over an extended period of time, then he will need to make adjustments somewhere. If he's an unattractive, awkward individual unwilling to change anything about himself, then he could look for a women that is the same as he is....awkward, unattractive and unwilling to change anything about herself. He could also move abroad to a 3rd World country where women don't care so much about attraction on various levels. Giving encouragement doesn't need to be motherly advice (which often doesn't work in the real world anyway). I come from social isolation and not having ANY luck with women. I was a p***y and would cling to any attractive girl that would give me a chance (regardless of how f***ed up they were). That is the definition of low self-esteem and zero self-confidence. I had to change some things before my outcome could. Women aren't going to change, the world isn't going to change for the better, and blaming everyone and everything else won't ever get anyone anywhere. When I tell people to make adjustments, I'm not labeling them a loser....I'm telling them that there IS hope. Instead of babying them and encouraging them in their misbehavior and bad attitudes, I tell them to DO SOMETHING. There are far too many guys here complaining with far too little action. If they continue on with the same behavior they will get the same result....until it gets worse.

Most guys here want women WAY above their head (and mostly much younger than they are). Instead of narrowing or closing that gap (by bettering themselves in some way or many ways), they simply complain about women. How does this make any sense?

[travelsouth]

Well even the most confident man should know the warning signs. You can be as confident as you like and regardless there are girls that are just slash your tires crazy. So yea the bottom-line is don't put up with garbage. But eventually you either sink or swim. So just be nice but don't take a bunch of crap either. You can't fix these bad relationships (especially with BS starting early). Idle threats and talks won't fix it. You simple gotta dump the trash and move on to something better.

Absolutely; As with women who stay in abusive, bad-boy relationships for the idea that they can change someone, or for fear of being alone, I think the same thing can happen with guys too. Take for instance someone coming from a shitty social background, who's used to women not even giving him the time of day, who's been dateless for ages, and is used to nothing but scowls and dirty looks from women. There is a real danger that someone from such a background could end-up falling for the first person to show him any interest, and clinging to her for dear life, even if they become highly toxic, putting-up with bullshit.

Even so, I wouldn't say such low-self-esteem is beta, or suggest that people who're in that situation are any less worthy of healthy positive relationships than anyone else. I think that any advice that can help guys coming from such a background avoid, be prepared for and to deal with situations like this would be highly constructive. I swear I've seen this talked about in other posts on this site before 'don't fall for the first one that gives you time of day'.

Well use whatever language you want. However you've got to be happy/content with yourself before you go overseas and try and make this work. In my experience with (foreign) women things can just being going great until their bad side shows. Now I was trying to be open and think maybe it is due to cultural differences or whatever. So on my first trip I didn't dump her as fast as I should. I did learn though, and I dumped that crazy girl. So like I mentioned you either sink or swim.

[TheAustralianMan]

Because alpha/beta arguments are troll fodder.