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No commitment Sex versus Serious Relationships

Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.

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Postby publicduende » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:29 pm

Ghost wrote:I didn't come here as a monger, so that has nothing to do with coloring my view of it. I'm merely speaking of what I've seen. Obviously there is a middle class and it works differently from the "normal" part of Filipino society. The middle class tends to be the exception, of course. There are tons of single moms, sluts, and generally not so nice girls. It's going to be hard to avoid attention from all these even if you don't go there as a monger. It's still there, and that is mainstream society there. Pointing out exceptions does not disprove the rule. Regardless, there are decent girls there so I was not saying this to be defeatist.


Exactly. That's what you have seen because that's what you have been allowed to see. The scammers and sluts might be a large proportion of those living in large cities and in frequent contact with foreign men, but I wouldn't call that "mainstream society". It's like saying that all Italians are mafiosos: there are many of them all over the place, but the mainstream Italian society is another. And, unfortunately, it seems that most of it tend to leave Italy, unobserved by people like Eurobrat and Think Different.

Back to the point, though, as some of the senior posters with extensive experience in the Philippines have written, the slices of Filipino society that would disprove every single stereotype about Filipinos being illiterate, lazy, only driven to cheaply scam their neighbour and the odd foreigner - those people have absolutely no interest in meeting the likes of us, not even for a handshake and a casual chat. Unless we prove them that we are or intend to be trustworthy, reliable members of their community. Which is what the Outwests and Zeitolas have done.
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Re: No commitment Sex versus Serious Relationships

Postby In2dadark » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:58 pm

Teal Lantern wrote:
Will N. Dowd wrote:They want:

Emotional Attachment
A possible lifetime commitment
Sex with only them for the rest of your life, so no cheating
Living together
Financial support of them and possibly extended family.
The inevitable contract signed involving religion and/or the government in the relationship.
The wedding and honeymoon and all the nonsense associated with it
As many kids as they want
Have I forgotten anything?

They want all that, and are offended when I only want sex? Come on!


Flip it around.
Imagine you had a LONG list of wants/needs and only ONE thing (with a shelf life) potential providers of those wants/needs were willing to exchange for.
You'd try to get as high a serious bid as possible, no? :D


Their style of playing the game adds or subtracts from their attractiveness (for me, anyway). As, I imagine, how we play does as well. Everything, not just this, is constant negotiations.. & sleep.
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Postby Ghost » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:11 am

publicduende wrote:
Ghost wrote:I didn't come here as a monger, so that has nothing to do with coloring my view of it. I'm merely speaking of what I've seen. Obviously there is a middle class and it works differently from the "normal" part of Filipino society. The middle class tends to be the exception, of course. There are tons of single moms, sluts, and generally not so nice girls. It's going to be hard to avoid attention from all these even if you don't go there as a monger. It's still there, and that is mainstream society there. Pointing out exceptions does not disprove the rule. Regardless, there are decent girls there so I was not saying this to be defeatist.


Exactly. That's what you have seen because that's what you have been allowed to see. The scammers and sluts might be a large proportion of those living in large cities and in frequent contact with foreign men, but I wouldn't call that "mainstream society". It's like saying that all Italians are mafiosos: there are many of them all over the place, but the mainstream Italian society is another. And, unfortunately, it seems that most of it tend to leave Italy, unobserved by people like Eurobrat and Think Different.

Back to the point, though, as some of the senior posters with extensive experience in the Philippines have written, the slices of Filipino society that would disprove every single stereotype about Filipinos being illiterate, lazy, only driven to cheaply scam their neighbour and the odd foreigner - those people have absolutely no interest in meeting the likes of us, not even for a handshake and a casual chat. Unless we prove them that we are or intend to be trustworthy, reliable members of their community. Which is what the Outwests and Zeitolas have done.


Cut the bullshit about being "allowed to see" certain things. Nothing is hidden here. I see middle class. I see poor people. You have a problem with generalizations? Well, that's too bad because they are useful and contain a great deal of facts. What I said about Phils being an island full of unemployment does tend to be true. There is a lot of unemployment, single moms, sluts, poor people, and a few middle class. A few middle class people do not disprove anything I said. They exist. Doesn't change the rest of the society, which happens to be the greater part of it. The society has a colonial mentality, which is why a lot of Flips will hit up foreigners for money. The middle class stuff is not reality for the vast majority of the Philippines. So don't make a big deal over it. If someone wants to pursue a middle class girl, then they should go ahead, but they do need to know the reality on the ground for the other 90% of the Phils they will discover first and experience most.
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Postby hammanta » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:05 am

A few middle class people do not disprove anything I said. They exist. Doesn't change the rest of the society, which happens to be the greater part of it. The society has a colonial mentality, which is why a lot of Flips will hit up foreigners for money. The middle class stuff is not reality for the vast majority of the Philippines. So don't make a big deal over it. If someone wants to pursue a middle class girl, then they should go ahead, but they do need to know the reality on the ground for the other 90% of the Phils they will discover first and experience most.


Horseshit! A high portion of the people are middle class. The problem arises when defining middle class. It isn't solely monetary. My filipina friends say all the time that they are poor, yet they have Iphone 5's, take a vacation or two a year, and are college educated. Sure they are poor by American standards but you can't judge it that way. Saying that 90% of the population isn't middle class is a terrible observation not to mention incorrect. In pure financial terms, middle class is defined by meeting basic needs with some discretionary income. Culture, education play a role as well. I'd say a good portion of filipino families meet this criteria. Unemployment rate is at about 7%, high but pales in comparison to many other developing countries. And those unemployment rates tend to be skewed by unskilled labor jobs that have high turnover rates.

Foreigners simply don't wanna see the real Philippines. For the most part the Philippines has little to offer foreigners (in comparison to other countries) outside of women. Therefore the majority of foreigners that come to Philippines are looking for women. Then you take into consideration that many of those foreigners are either whore mongers or have been treated like shit by their own women. What do they want then? An easy ride and attention, and that's what they find. They find the bar girls, or the desperate single mother's, or the girls looking for a way out because they don't have the time, patience, or reserve to find the quality girls and incorporate into the community. I see it on this forum and other forums. "Oh she wants to bring a chaperon, screw that; Oh she hasn't given me sex in 3 dates, I'm dumping her; Oh she wants me to meet her parents, yea too soon; Damn she wants me to go to church, yea not gonna happen." These same guys are then showering the "bad" girls with gifts, money, and time because they provide the guys with short term satisfaction. Reality soon sets in and they become jaded and pissy. They then view the Philippines as this poor, shit hole that is only good for getting laid, and by all means, watch out for the girls because they are all scammers and gold digging degenerates. Meanwhile they completely miss this whole other portion of the country that offers good opportunities.
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Postby publicduende » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:18 am

hammanta wrote:
A few middle class people do not disprove anything I said. They exist. Doesn't change the rest of the society, which happens to be the greater part of it. The society has a colonial mentality, which is why a lot of Flips will hit up foreigners for money. The middle class stuff is not reality for the vast majority of the Philippines. So don't make a big deal over it. If someone wants to pursue a middle class girl, then they should go ahead, but they do need to know the reality on the ground for the other 90% of the Phils they will discover first and experience most.


Horseshit! A high portion of the people are middle class. The problem arises when defining middle class. It isn't solely monetary. My filipina friends say all the time that they are poor, yet they have Iphone 5's, take a vacation or two a year, and are college educated. Sure they are poor by American standards but you can't judge it that way. Saying that 90% of the population isn't middle class is a terrible observation not to mention incorrect. In pure financial terms, middle class is defined by meeting basic needs with some discretionary income. Culture, education play a role as well. I'd say a good portion of filipino families meet this criteria. Unemployment rate is at about 7%, high but pales in comparison to many other developing countries. And those unemployment rates tend to be skewed by unskilled labor jobs that have high turnover rates.

Foreigners simply don't wanna see the real Philippines. For the most part the Philippines has little to offer foreigners (in comparison to other countries) outside of women. Therefore the majority of foreigners that come to Philippines are looking for women. Then you take into consideration that many of those foreigners are either whore mongers or have been treated like shit by their own women. What do they want then? An easy ride and attention, and that's what they find. They find the bar girls, or the desperate single mother's, or the girls looking for a way out because they don't have the time, patience, or reserve to find the quality girls and incorporate into the community. I see it on this forum and other forums. "Oh she wants to bring a chaperon, screw that; Oh she hasn't given me sex in 3 dates, I'm dumping her; Oh she wants me to meet her parents, yea too soon; Damn she wants me to go to church, yea not gonna happen." These same guys are then showering the "bad" girls with gifts, money, and time because they provide the guys with short term satisfaction. Reality soon sets in and they become jaded and pissy. They then view the Philippines as this poor, shit hole that is only good for getting laid, and by all means, watch out for the girls because they are all scammers and gold digging degenerates. Meanwhile they completely miss this whole other portion of the country that offers good opportunities.


Very sharp and concise. It's a bit like quantum physics, really. You only get to see the Philippines your state of mind allows you to. And you draw your conclusions based on that observation alone, because it's a first person experience do..you know, it must be true.

Good people who want to find a good girl and really respect and blend into the local culture will probably have to work harder than the monger on a 2 week trip, but they will get what they're looking for. The monger will get what (and who) he can. And then probably complain.
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Postby Ghost » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:41 pm

hammanta wrote:
A few middle class people do not disprove anything I said. They exist. Doesn't change the rest of the society, which happens to be the greater part of it. The society has a colonial mentality, which is why a lot of Flips will hit up foreigners for money. The middle class stuff is not reality for the vast majority of the Philippines. So don't make a big deal over it. If someone wants to pursue a middle class girl, then they should go ahead, but they do need to know the reality on the ground for the other 90% of the Phils they will discover first and experience most.


Horseshit! A high portion of the people are middle class. The problem arises when defining middle class. It isn't solely monetary. My filipina friends say all the time that they are poor, yet they have Iphone 5's, take a vacation or two a year, and are college educated. Sure they are poor by American standards but you can't judge it that way. Saying that 90% of the population isn't middle class is a terrible observation not to mention incorrect. In pure financial terms, middle class is defined by meeting basic needs with some discretionary income. Culture, education play a role as well. I'd say a good portion of filipino families meet this criteria. Unemployment rate is at about 7%, high but pales in comparison to many other developing countries. And those unemployment rates tend to be skewed by unskilled labor jobs that have high turnover rates.

Foreigners simply don't wanna see the real Philippines. For the most part the Philippines has little to offer foreigners (in comparison to other countries) outside of women. Therefore the majority of foreigners that come to Philippines are looking for women. Then you take into consideration that many of those foreigners are either whore mongers or have been treated like shit by their own women. What do they want then? An easy ride and attention, and that's what they find. They find the bar girls, or the desperate single mother's, or the girls looking for a way out because they don't have the time, patience, or reserve to find the quality girls and incorporate into the community. I see it on this forum and other forums. "Oh she wants to bring a chaperon, screw that; Oh she hasn't given me sex in 3 dates, I'm dumping her; Oh she wants me to meet her parents, yea too soon; Damn she wants me to go to church, yea not gonna happen." These same guys are then showering the "bad" girls with gifts, money, and time because they provide the guys with short term satisfaction. Reality soon sets in and they become jaded and pissy. They then view the Philippines as this poor, shit hole that is only good for getting laid, and by all means, watch out for the girls because they are all scammers and gold digging degenerates. Meanwhile they completely miss this whole other portion of the country that offers good opportunities.


Then most of this hinges on what the definition of middle class is. Is 15k php per month middle class? Then yes, a lot more people would be considered middle class. Having some discretionary income? A huge boost to what you're calling middle class. Though a girl having these things does not appear to make her higher quality automatically. There are plenty of girls working in call centers and whatnot who are just as slutty as impoverished, "low class" girls. At least when it comes to foreigners.

We have the internet. Any guy who goes there looking for women can get tons of assessments online about the different kinds of women available there and ways to go about each one. It isn't for lack of not seeing. And yes, obviously guys go to the Phils because it is easy. It's probably so easy to get the bad women in the Phils that those types never rise above their laziness to find someone worthwhile. But again I stress it isn't because they don't see.
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Postby hammanta » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:19 pm

Then most of this hinges on what the definition of middle class is. Is 15k php per month middle class? Then yes, a lot more people would be considered middle class. Having some discretionary income? A huge boost to what you're calling middle class. Though a girl having these things does not appear to make her higher quality automatically. There are plenty of girls working in call centers and whatnot who are just as slutty as impoverished, "low class" girls. At least when it comes to foreigners.

We have the internet. Any guy who goes there looking for women can get tons of assessments online about the different kinds of women available there and ways to go about each one. It isn't for lack of not seeing. And yes, obviously guys go to the Phils because it is easy. It's probably so easy to get the bad women in the Phils that those types never rise above their laziness to find someone worthwhile. But again I stress it isn't because they don't see.


I don't think it is necessarily they can't see, it's they don't want to. The goals and behaviors in which a lot of foreigners come to the country with are usually different then the side I consider "the real" Philippines. Ask a normal filipina or filipino about Angeles City. If they haven't been there before and/or don't live close by then they probably have no idea what the city is about. Ask any foreigner that has been to Philippines and he know's right away what the city is about, and has probably been there. P4P really doesn't exist much outside of the big cities and the slut factor goes away as well. It really isn't about being middle class or not. There are low brow people in all classes but to give the generalization that majority of the countries women are poor, unemployed, and slutty is just not the case. To a lot of foreigners that is the case because they choose not to see the other side. It does not appeal to them or at least they think that.
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Postby davewe » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:10 am

hammanta wrote:
I don't think it is necessarily they can't see, it's they don't want to. The goals and behaviors in which a lot of foreigners come to the country with are usually different then the side I consider "the real" Philippines. Ask a normal filipina or filipino about Angeles City. If they haven't been there before and/or don't live close by then they probably have no idea what the city is about. Ask any foreigner that has been to Philippines and he know's right away what the city is about, and has probably been there. P4P really doesn't exist much outside of the big cities and the slut factor goes away as well. It really isn't about being middle class or not. There are low brow people in all classes but to give the generalization that majority of the countries women are poor, unemployed, and slutty is just not the case. To a lot of foreigners that is the case because they choose not to see the other side. It does not appeal to them or at least they think that.


This is why I think the Philippines is kind of like a Rorschach test for Western men. You can see what you want to see and more importantly you can find it. Wanna go for a couple weeks and find cheap and fantastic p4p in EDSA, Angeles, Cebu - you can find it. Wanna go for a month or two and find a vacation gf, hoping you will treat her well and hoping that she will become more than that short term gf? You can easily find that. Wanna go to a larger city and find a series of short term gfs - they are there, although even Will N is finding it a bit more difficult to sustain. Want to find a conservative, even virginal gf for marriage - there are plenty still out there.

But you can't have it all! There's an old saying in business that you can have speed, quality or a cheap price - pick two. So, you can have all the p4p you want - but they are not gonna make the best wife - let's get real. And you can find a beautiful, conservative, virgin - but she's not sleeping with you on the 1st date - or possibly on any date.

Most people on HA are down on Western women - and for some very good reasons. So, what do they often do? Go to a place like PI and look for the most Westernized women, and then get pissed off when girls from a very different culture do not act like the skanks you're used to dealing with in your home country.

Guys go to PI, look for a girl who looks like a porn star, screws on the 1st date, and pays her own way, and then wonder where all the supposedly good girls are. It's fun to watch.
Check out my blog @ www.marriedafilipina.com
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