Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
13 posts • Page 1 of 1
I've shared how I married an Indonesian woman.
My wife was kind of like bounced around between relatives after she moved to the big city in her pre-teen or teen years. She did not grow up always taking orders from her dad, though she did live in homes with uncles who were in charge. Her people-group is rather male dominated.
Theoretically, when we were dating, my wife believed in wives' submitting to husbands. But I was kind of a nice guy husband. I doted on her. I wasn't decisive enough. I was a bit of the type of husband who, when going out to dinner, would say, "Whatever you want to eat dear." I don't regret being kind to my wife, but I wish early on I'd asserted myself more as the leader in the relationship and found a few occasions to forbid her to do certain things and things along those lines.
Our sex life was extremely active early on, though we had a gap late in the first pregnancy that lasted until well after she should have been healed up. I had a conversation in which I told her that wasn't okay, and things picked up again, but at about half the original pace.
You can marry a sweet Asian woman or a woman from a male dominated country. But being Asian isn't going to make her a sweet submissive wife that always dotes on her husband and does what he says. Here are some suggestions for setting the tone and maintaining the relationship. They have to do with setting a tone in which you are the leader and she submits to you. I'm not talking about some kind of oppressive thing where you make her scrub the cracks between the tiles with a toothbrush and give her a list of chores to do.
1. If she does something that doesn't please you, make a big deal out of it.
2. Set clear boundaries when it comes to respect.
Respect can be things like ignoring what you are saying in private. In public, it's even worse. It can be talking over you, or even worse name calling. I haven't had to worry about name calling in my marriage, which is good. A critical, scolding tongue, talking down to you, saying negative or insulting things, or yelling. If she starts, you create a boundary. This can be done by leaving the house and refusing to listen to her until she can talk like an adult (and tell her that). Insist on a peaceful tone of voice. You may want to require an apology of her at times.
3. Be the leader.
If she tries to lead you, call her on it. Tell her what her role is and what your role is. Do this early on. Lay the groundrules for marriage when it comes to this while you are dating. It requires some thought to be the leader, so you need to be prepared for that.
4. Be assertive about sex.
If she's an Asian lady or a lady from certain other regions, the man is expected to lead when it comes to sex. You can build up excitement by touching her a lot before the act at night, long kisses. Don't beg for sex. Don't even ask. Tell her what you will do to her. You can do this through joking innuendo. Treat sex like something she is supposed to do as your wife, not something you beg her for or some kind of big favor. If you do it right, you are doing her a favor anyway.
It also helps to keep in shape. If you aren't in shape, your attitude about it can make the difference between an ongoing sex life and a lack thereof.
If she starts to slack up too much on the sex, have a serious talk with her about it. Don't let the issue sit. Let her know your expectations. But make the experience enjoyable for her, too.
5. Learn to diffuse arguments.
Some women go through times when they are argumentative. Sometimes women get upset during PMS. Usually, getting married to a woman is signing up for at least a little drama. If your wife ever gets upset and emotional, be careful not to get sucked in to the emotion. One useful skill is to know when to just be quiet and not engage in an argument or potential argument. Another way to approach is to be the adult and let her be the child. If you think of it that way, that she's a child and you are an adult, that can help with your frame. Gone with the Wind was a big chick flick and women liked the Rhett Butler character. His wife would get upset and have a tantrum. He'd kind of laugh it off and talk to her almost as if she were a little girl having a tantrum. But the women still loved the movie. A little bit of this when your wife gets upset can be useful. If she's really angry, you can refuse to engage until she behaves herself and leave. You may get a mellow wife and never have to worry about this stuff. But even sweet little demure Asian women can get upset at times.
Especially 1 and 2, because they dont get talked about in public.
Good distinction between private backtalk and disrespect in public.
Only thing I would change is leaving the house. That's a last resort, or when you think maybe you're the one who is way wrong. Normally some old-fashioned corporal punishment on the part of a woman's body clearly designed for it works wonders.
"Pick a point and go to it."
-- Dr John Hunsucker, speaking about canoeing on Georgia's Lake Lanier, with its irregular shape, and 1000 miles of meandering shoreline
yeah i hate begging for sex i prefer if a girl initiates it or automatically does it and pretends to enjoy it with no resistance and actual enthusiasm. thats hard to find and i wont settle for a hot girl with a lousy libido.
i demand sex multiple times a day. not many wives will put up with that so i stick with local hanging fruit that will do what I say with a carrot on the stick.
I have been married 23 years, so I will give my take on this list.
If she does something that doesn't please you, tell her directly and then let it go. Do not throw tantrums, that looks weak.
Yes but a good leader isn't a tyrant. If she wants to lead occasionally, that's fine as long as it's understood that it is with your permission. Make few rules and demands, but enforce them absolutely.
Assertive is fine, but don't let it turn into begging. The real issue comes when she clearly says no too often. In that case, the correct response is to tell her that you will get sex one way or the other, from her or from someone else. Which does she prefer? Provoke the natural female competitive instinct. If she throws a tantrum, calmly tell her something like "if I don't get sex by tomorrow at 9pm, I will leave the house and look for it elsewhere". This is virtually guaranteed to work.
Here there may be cultural differences. My wife is Mexican. I think only God can diffuse an argument with a Latina. My solution is simple. I go to my room and close the door until the emotions diffuse themselves. Only then do I come out and discuss the issue.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
I've never left the house, just the room a time or two. I've never done the corporal punishment thing and don't plan to, though I've been tempted.
I wonder how common it is to find a 'nice girl' from Asia who is actually going to repeatedly initiate sex. I can probably count on one or two hands the times my wife has initiated sex. I have a stronger sex drive (in terms of wanting to initiate), and I'd be waiting around too long if I initiated. I initiate before the time would come for her to do it. Initiating sex for her is some mild comment of interest in having sex. I tend to think of it as the man's role to pursue when it comes to sex. If I stopped 'hitting on her' for sex, she'd probably be confused.
The thing with some women's libido is that they have a sex drive. They just don't know it until some time after foreplay begins. It's like you start an engine, and it's hard to crank, but there is no 'off' switch on that thing and it runs until there is no more gas in the tank.
Multiple times a day. I'd say that's a statistical anomaly. It would be great and I could go for that. But, especially as a man in my 40's, I don't have to have it that often. In my 20's just married, once a day would be okay as long as it was consistent.
If you want your future wife to do that for you, you've got to be really clear on that up front. She's got to be up for it. If you marry a virgin, she won't know if she's up for it.
One thing I did not include in the list is that for men who have strong sex drives (not those once a quarter is okay kind of guys), then having sex with her twice as much as you want or more for the first month or as long as you can of marriage. Let's say you want once a day. Have it twice a day. If she decides she wants to slow it down later, slow it down to the pace you wanted to begin with (once a day.) If I had it to do over, I think I'd do that.
I'd also have made much of the need for daily sex when we were dating. I mentioned it, but she has no recollection now. I think I'd have told her when we were dating that I had an unusual need, apologized for the graphic nature of my comment and told her I was only telling her this because I was considering her for marriage. Then I would have told her I would need daily sex after I married, and I had to marry a wife who could provide that. It would not be fair to a woman for me to marry her with this need if she was not able and willing, and it would not be fair to me. Then I could have given her a chance to think about it for a day and let her know if she wanted to break up with me. When she was head over heals, she would have said no. But by staying with me, she would be committing to daily sex after marriage. And she would have been given 24 hours to think specifically about that issue so it would be imprinted in her memory as a part of our marriage deal. I'd also offer to meet her needs at whatever level she required after marriage up to my ability. My wife was a virgin, so it's different from those who are fornicating with women and trying to 'test drive' them or whatever.
One of the dangers of taking that approach for older men, say 40+ is that the sex drive declines over time, and shortly a man may find himself being fine with sex every other night or two or three times a week, and she's thinking he did all this bragging about sex every night, and she finds herself wanting more as a man is in his 50's and 60's. And if he'd promised to meet her needs as best he could, he may find himself totally and completely exhausted by a young wife. Poor guy. Sounds fun, though. I'd like to experience that kind of suffering.
Realistically, though, there are periods and things like that, and actual intercourse might not be feasible daily. Especially a virgin after that first night, since she may need a little time to heal up, and women can get a little sore some times, especially before they heal up after that first childbirth.
I agree. When I say 'make a big deal out of it', I mean a calm conversation where you tell her that's not cool, not some kind of rant. Also, you can have a conversation where you leave things as 'We are not okay unless we resolve this." If she wants to be on good terms with you, she needs to apologize and resolve not to be disrespectful. I'm talking about making it an important issue, not losing our cool.
The man always has to be the adult. If she gets emotional, he needs to be the adult and let her be the child having a tantrum. By staying calm, he can give off that vibe. It helps to keep in mind that you are in charge and even think I'm the man and she's being a child, and even talk to her a little as if she is a child. I'm thinking of a Rhett Butler-Scarlett Ohara conversation from Gone with the Wind, which I watched a few months back. He talked to her like she was a child, and women ate that up. They loved the Rhett Butler character.
I make the mistake sometimes of getting caught up in what she is saying and arguing back with her when she's in a mood. PMS moods sneak up on me. I think I'm talking to my wife, and by the time I figure out I'm talking to the PMS version of my wife, we are already embroiled in an argument. That first argument of PMS can be very tricky that way. So I have to disengage and avoid conflict during those times, or at least interact with her in a way where it's obvious that she's the one with all the out-of-control emotions, and I'm being normal and as cool as a cucumber.
I agree with you. I wouldn't want to be a tyrant. I don't want to feel like I'm domineering or mean. Being a leader may mean suffering a bit for the sake of your wife. It might mean taking a bullet for her, that sort of thing. It may mean giving up something you want for her sake, even to make her happy. You don't let her happiness control you, but if you see something as good for her, you may be willing to sacrifice something to give her that or to let her do that.
Begging doesn't fit with what I mean by assertive. I agree with you about not begging for sex.
I tell my wife I'm going to have sex with her later in the day. Sometimes I do it in a kind of joking way. If I do it enough, she may get annoyed and ask me not to talk about it so much. If she does, I back off. I'll tell her, "I need to have sex with you before I go."
Something that doesn't work well is treating sex like her doing a big favor for you, treating it as if she is giving you a hand out. Treating it like something she should do, something she gets to do, etc. seems to work better.
I totally disagree with this. It's a very Machiavellian approach and it may not work. But my wife and I are both Christians. Adultery is out of the question. If a man says something like that to his wife, she either believes him, or she takes it as a joke, or she takes it as a joke and has sex just in case it isn't. If my wife thought of me as an adulterer, she'd lose a measure of respect for me. Respect is important for attraction, and I think saying something like that would deliver a near death blow to her respect for me and attraction for me. And I wouldn't even threaten something like that because even doing so is against my faith.
I'd like to have sex a bit more often with my wife. When she's not on her period, it seems to be happening about every other day. I'd prefer every day, honestly. It was happening a while back when I just insisted on it. I thought I was being alpha, but she felt it was kind of domineering, so I backed off a bit. I'd rather get back into daily/nightly by learning to push her buttons. I've put on too many pounds, and I'm exercising more now, and I'm hoping to up the attraction that way.
Here there may be cultural differences. My wife is Mexican. I think only God can diffuse an argument with a Latina. My solution is simple. I go to my room and close the door until the emotions diffuse themselves. Only then do I come out and discuss the issue.[/quote]
That seems like a good way of diffusing things if she has difficulty staying calm.
Once when my wife was in an argumentative PMS mood, I had great success with saying, "I'm sorry you feel like that, Honey", rubbing her on the back. It seemed to calm her down. But the next time she had that, I said the same thing and she accused me of being insincere and just saying that.
I assume you haven't been married long. After a few years, being deprived of sex is often a real problem. So let's consider the options when the wife simply refuses:
1. Rape wife
3. Extramarital sex
There are no other options, right? So let me consider these from 3 perspectives: legal, Old Testament, New Testament.
It is illegal to rape one's wife with serious consequences. In most of the world run by a femocracy, divorce is almost as legally damaging to a man as rape. In the modern world of no-fault divorce, extramarital sex has no real legal significance. And of course modern law and culture is designed to cause widespread male celibacy. So legally, the first 2 are out but the second 2 are fine.
From the Old Testament perspective, the idea that it is illegal to rape one's wife is absurd because sexual consent has been given through marriage. But rape has an assault component and assault for any reason, sexual or other, violates the Torah. Therefore raping one's wife is not an option. Divorce is tolerated in the Torah if the man finds "something improper about her". But there is nothing in the Old Testament to indicate that the wife withholding sex is improper. The husband is required to provide sex to the wife, but not the other way around. Therefore divorce in this case is not a valid option. Adultery is a violation of the Ten Commandments, but adultery is clearly defined as a man having sex with another man's wife. Extramarital sex by the husband is not a sin in any sense based on the Old Testament. Therefore this is a perfectly acceptable option. And celibacy is never recommended in the Old Testament and is a violation of "be fruitful and multiply". Given that Extramarital sex allows for extramarital sex as an option, there is no reason to suffer celibacy.
The Christian view of raping one's wife is the same as the Old Testament, not acceptable. Divorce is explicitly condemned by Jesus, so this shouldn't be an option either. Extramarital sex by a husband is never condemned by Jesus, only by Paul. So the question is whether Paul is expressing God's will here, or is expressing his obviously sexually repressed personal character. That's for Christians to decide. If they rule out extramarital sex, that leaves celibacy which is generally accepted in Christianity. For men who aren't saints or asexuals, this option is a torture.
I should add how Catholicism deals with this issue. The Catholic view seems to be that we are all sinners and Christ died for our sins, therefore a little sin should be expected. This is why Catholic societies are low trust societies, because people can't really trust each other not to sin against them. So the reality of Catholicism is that while extramarital sex is condemned, it is also practiced. This is made quite explicit by Saint Augustine and Thomas Aquinas, both of whom support legal prostitution as an outlet for sin.
I am not a Christian. I follow the Old Testament and I adhere to its teachings. So there is nothing Machiavellian about my approach. If this situation comes up and if I make this statement to my wife, it is because I fully intend to follow through with what I say. I am completely honest with my wife. And I will say that there has never turned out to be a case where I actually needed extramarital sex in the end.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
Also, have her call you sir on occasion, and spank her when she gets out of line. set some rules, write them down, have her agree to them, then if she breaks one, spank her. domestic discipline.
But, what do you do when she sulks and makes it impossible to get on with her? Especially in public? That's a tough one. I suppose telling her that she'll get a hard spanking if she doesn't buck up might work, but then again it might not.
I've been married about 15 years. Is that long?
I agree that deprivation from sex is a horrible alternative. My wife shut me off for a little while after the first baby was born and we were in my country now, with my in-laws. I realize she was under a lot of stress. I had a serious conversation with her about it, and she realized she needed to change.
There are other alternatives that aren't on the list. Again, how you handle a woman and how you manage your marriage makes a big difference in this area just like the others I mentioned. If she's withholding sex, you can try to warm her up and prepare her for it-- long kisses during the day, lots of touching which gradually escalates to blatant groping. If she says she doesn't want sex or gets angry, kind of laugh it off or change the subject or make a joke about how you know she likes it. Then, show up naked laying diagonally so that you take up the whole bed with all of your sex gear (lube or birth control or whatever) ready for sex. You can also pick her up and carry her over the threshold like a newly wed and throw her on the bed. If she's laughing instead of kicking and screaming, start kissing and disrobing. It doesn't fit into the rape category. It's just showing a bit of physical dominance in a fun way.
Of course, some women truly do shut a man off and this stuff doesn't work. But there are things short of adultery and divorce (or murder) you can do. I suppose if she's not sleeping with you, you could kick her out of the bedroom and make her sleep in the guest room, or other things like that to send a message.
I hear people say that (the last statement) about Judaism, and sex is a woman's right. That's the primary focus on Judaism. The passage it's from is about adding another wife or concubine, so it's about competition over polygamy. The first wife can't lose her sex rights.
But the wife is the man's wife. He's covenanted with her father, giving her so many sheckels for her. I recall reading the Talmud about a man being allowed to have sex with his wife any way he wants (positions and such) so men have rights in that regard as well.
Celibacy can be difficult for saints as well.
If I intended to go sleep with other women, my wife wouldn't appreciate my character or respect me as she did before. If a woman doesn't share your belief that a husband can mess around, but not the wife, threatening doing that may lower the value of the marriage in her eyes. I've managed to have a reasonably good sex life throughout my marriage, well over a decade, without threatening sleeping with other women or divorce.
Mrman, what would you do if your wife started not wanting sex much less than you wanted and never budged. lets say you wanted it every day 1 to 2 times but she only wanted it twice or 3 times a week? For me that would be possible grounds for divorce or abandoment LOL. any women that isn't into me or would deprive of the basic relationship enjoyment doesn't really deserve to have a man and its her fault if the guy leaves her. Women can have sex at any time whereas a man has to be in the mood for it obviously.
I suppose it depends on what your primary purpose in life is. If your primary purpose in life is to fulfill every sexual desire you have, then I can understand your point of view. I realize that my primary purpose in life must be to please God. That includes not sinning by committing adultery or fornicating. It means I need to love my wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her. Jesus also taught that if a man put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and marry another, he commits adultery, and he that marries her that is put away commits adultery.
Honestly, I would prefer to have sex once or twice a day now, and probably do it three times a week, maybe four, when my wife isn't on her period. We abstain from intercourse during her period. She agrees with that. But that's probably coming more from my side, since I see it as a sexual sin the way I interpret the Bible. This requires me to exercise a bit of self-control.
If sex is such an obsession for you that you will rebell against God and destroy your own marriage and break up your family over it, then you need to rethink your priorities.
I did go through a period of time where I told my wife I wanted it every day and kind of made it a submission issue. I was hoping to tap into some kind of desire for alpha in her, and also up the frequency. After talking about it later, she didn't care for that at all. It didn't effect her the way I wanted. I may push for that again a bit later, but I do love her and I am concerned about her feelings, too. Honestly, I don't have the physical pressing need for the high sexual frequency I felt in my 20's. Biologically, every other day would probably keep me comfortable, though emotionally, I want a lot more.
I'm also concerned with my wife's physical well-being. We have lots of kids, and taking care of kids and the other activities we do in life is tiring. If my wife gives an excuse when I want sex, it's often related to genuine tiredness. Sometimes I can push through that if my need is great. Other times, I realize she is tired and I put her need to rest above my sexual desires. If she's been tired a lot, and my need is strong, I also consider that keeping up the sex is important for our relationship, and for her. It takes a while for her desire to kick in, and sometimes I consider it better for her to have sex, even when she thinks she is too tired, and I'll persuade/insist a bit more until she agrees.
Unless my wife is in a truly foul mood, she is usually a little flexible on the issue. If she's put up a little resistence, verbally, I can get through it with touching, and then just prepping to have sex when she comes to bed and things like that. Assuming its going to happen and acting like it is usually enough. Her delaying (got to fold the laundry first, etc.) is a bigger issue for me sometimes. But usually it's not that big of an issue.
What would I do if my wife would not budge and like really cut me off? That's a difficult situation. If that were the case, I'd think we probably have some major issue that needs to be dealt with besides sex. She'd probably be upset at me about something, or lost respect. If I weren't working hard enough to provide for the home in her estimation, if I spoke harsh to her, if I weren't being a good father to the children in some ways as she sees it, or I did something immoral, that would hurt her respect for me. Being overweight doesn't help either with attraction. If she shut me off, I'd have a serious talk with her. A lot of times, if she has a problem with me, it's something I can really improve. If it's just her being judgmental, we'd have to talk that through. In my case, I can even get sex if she has a problem with me sometimes.
If you want sex twice a day for the rest of your life, that's going to be tough on most women out there. You could find a woman who is really high on sex drive or really high on submission and it may be possible. I wouldn't count on sex drive if I were you. If I were in your shoes, I'd find a submissive virgin and be really insistent on the twice a day thing after marriage, and give her 24 hours to think about breaking up with you and contemplate that should you marry later. But when you actually marry, I think you should be flexible. Your supposed to actually love your wife and care about her. Intercourse twice a day for a petite Asian woman whose never had a baby can be a bit difficult and she might get sore. There are also periods, colds, etc. Then if you have kids, there is pregnancy and healing up after, and it just isn't right to expect it during the heal-up stage. Then there is getting little sleep and taking care of the baby. You've got to be willing to give some on these sexual desires and go through some periods of time where they aren't fulfilled. It's a part of life and marriage.
MrMan, I'm a Christian myself, and I'm always self-conscious about how not sexual I am. I'm very much an introvert, and sometimes I just want to rest in solitude. I doubt losing my virginity would change that. I'd never "withhold" sex from my husband (treat him like a child), but I also wouldn't want to be coerced into doing it so much. It's encouraging to see a good example of the true Christian compromise and fellowship I look forward to in marriage!
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