Jester's Rookie Mistake In Thailand

[WorldTraveler]

Jester,
What about my questions? I dont understand the problem here. You say shes good in business and has helped you a lot. So how is she deceitful?

(1)
Deceitful in that at first it was okay for me to have a bar, and pork all the cocktail waitresses, at least in theory. MY bar. (Not impossible, I know a guy in LA that does that.) A way to stay close to multiple gf's in the modern world. Not an obsession in itself, just one avenue I had thought of.

Then later it evolved (in broken English) to where it needed to be HER bar or coffee shop. OKAY, well I want my little girl to be happy... so I allowed the vision to become a mini-place that she would run by herself, and to happen sooner, be smaller and cost less.

(2)
Deceitful also in that ORIGINALLY, before ANY sexual contact, I covered with her that I wanted a harem, I wanted more children, I would have other girls here, and that Miss S would be visiting from California, and that she needed to be respectful to Miss S.

Then later it evolved to where Miss S could not come visit me for a week in the f***ing flat that I PAID FOR, since Miss Chiang Mai came downstairs to wait on me regularly, she now had some kind of vested interest in the place.

So thats how she was deceitful. I am not saying she was NEFARIOUS, just saying that (as eurobrat mentioned to me elsewhere) she is just a chick trying to survive. But certainly in Guy-World, where we are actually held to our agreements, her compliance with the original agreement has slipped a bit.

Note that I was willing to accommodate these two very material changes, in the interest of getting things done in the real world, not living in a hypothetical polygamist's dream-world Camelot.

And whats her excuse for not having sex anymore?

That I intend to have other women, and it now upsets her... even though it didn't before.
(And being "tired", of course, which is bullshit.)

In other words not only can I not employ other gf's in MY SHOP, or host them in MY RESIDENCE, but now I cannot have other gf's at all, or else... it is the Dry Season as far as Miss Chiang Mai is concerned.

She won't be the first high-quality gf I have parted with over this matter.

Jester, I'm surprised at you, because you've been on this Forum a long time and should have heard tragic stories like this.
I'm confused what did you come to Thailand for?

1. have a love relationship,
2. shag a lotta women
3. start a business?
Why would you try to mix the three?

Why do you want to shag girls that work for you? Why shit where you eat? I can think of nothing more stupid than all the women you shag knowing each other. With all the women in Thailand why not shag some that don't know each other. Shagging women that know each other will cause jealousy, even if it's only competition among themselves to get at your ATM. One night they'll cut your dick off while you sleep.

Also many foreigners end up dead too or maybe you'll just lose everything. I think it's a no win situation co owning this coffee shop with a women that won't shag you, and doesn't want to let you shag others. You mentioned it went from $1000 to $3000. One thing for sure is that everything will cost more and she'll find many ways to spend your money. I think it can only end badly.

If you haven't read them, you need to read Larry Etleman's Philippine Guide (or whatever it's called) the chapter on extortion/business. Read "Money Number One" which is about Thailand. Buy a copy of "Private Dancer" and read it immediately. There are other books that talk about how you can get scammed or that SEA girls think of you as an ATM first. Just re-read Rock's first post 10 times!
Winston needs to add a thread called Dating Romance Cluster Fkks. The Forum should say: Warning: Start here before you go any further into dating foreign women. I'd be glad to add my stories to the threads.

I'm not trying to be hard on you, but I had a friend that lost about 4 years of his life to girl and about $200,000 of his saving too. He's now "happily" married to Thai. We'll see how that goes. You are far from alone in making these mistakes. What separates you from all the other guys that made big international dating mistakes, is that you are honest and telling yours. They just wimped away to be never heard from again. Because of this, you can correct your problem.

[Jester]

Thais i will never ever trust them. f**k them as much as you can with as little money involved as possible. Then dump them, rinse and repeat. Sure Philippines has these stories as well but not as prolific and pinays are filled with loving warm hearts thats why they are obsessed with love songs. They are Christians not buddists and have some sort of moral compass you can relate too. But here as there family comes first. You marry her family as well as here. Find and educated one with out a poor family. Dont marry your housemaid.

I agree with all your points.

Found this just now on one of the websites belonging to Andy Graham the Hobo Traveler.

She is a control freak, she is normal, she believe she is in control of her life. She does not want help, refuses to be coddled, controlled or guided along the path. She does not trust me, I often think she does not even like me, I have known her for at least five years and we are best friends. I am not sure a Thailand person can have respect for a Farang.

This Thailand culture is so arrogant, it cannot or will not have faith in anyone but a Thai person....

....she is bored out of her mind, and she is on my computer more than me, trying to find something to occupy her time.

Read more: http://www.hobotraveler.com/travel-jour ... z444HkUlcH

[Jester]

Wouldn't that have worked perfectly for the Harem arrangement? she could've just been one in the rotation. How did the moving-in idea come about?

Yup, she would work well in a rotation for a short while anyway. You are right.
+1

I just really hate being alone, and went for the warmth. That's not a "her" problem, that's a "me" problem.

[Jester]

Sounds like someone chose a dud. Look at the words used to describe her personality. I am not going to re- scour the post to quote them, but there were many descriptive words used by the man himself about the woman that make her seem like she's not a woman you'd want to deal with. "Headstrong." That is not a feminine trait. Neither is it submissive. In fact, it is the opposite of what a man should look for in a woman. And it sounds like the woman is cunning and capable of planning and strategizing.

Of course since he already stuck his male member inside of her on several occasions, he's lost his mind. 9 It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house. It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman. Proverbs 21:9 and 21:19. Women are to be in subjection. But the man has already had intercourse. So they have already joined as one body. She's a disobedient concubine.

Your words sound harsh but are 100 percent true.
+1

BTW those same Bible verses had already come to mind a few days ago.

Are there any verses about disobedient concubines?

[Jester]

Jester, I'm surprised at you, because you've been on this Forum a long time and should have heard tragic stories like this.
I'm confused what did you come to Thailand for?

1. have a love relationship,
2. shag a lotta women
3. start a business?
Why would you try to mix the three?

Why do you want to shag girls that work for you? Why shit where you eat? I can think of nothing more stupid than all the women you shag knowing each other. With all the women in Thailand why not shag some that don't know each other. Shagging women that know each other will cause jealousy, even if it's only competition among themselves to get at your ATM. One night they'll cut your dick off while you sleep.

Also many foreigners end up dead too or maybe you'll just lose everything. I think it's a no win situation co owning this coffee shop with a women that won't shag you, and doesn't want to let you shag others. You mentioned it went from $1000 to $3000. One thing for sure is that everything will cost more and she'll find many ways to spend your money. I think it can only end badly.

If you haven't read them, you need to read Larry Etleman's Philippine Guide (or whatever it's called) the chapter on extortion/business. Read "Money Number One" which is about Thailand. Buy a copy of "Private Dancer" and read it immediately. There are other books that talk about how you can get scammed or that SEA girls think of you as an ATM first. Just re-read Rock's first post 10 times!
Winston needs to add a thread called Dating Romance Cluster Fkks. The Forum should say: Warning: Start here before you go any further into dating foreign women. I'd be glad to add my stories to the threads.

I'm not trying to be hard on you, but I had a friend that lost about 4 years of his life to girl and about $200,000 of his saving too. He's now "happily" married to Thai. We'll see how that goes. You are far from alone in making these mistakes. What separates you from all the other guys that made big international dating mistakes, is that you are honest and telling yours. They just wimped away to be never heard from again. Because of this, you can correct your problem.

Fair comments.

Read Larry Eltermans book before I left the US, its OK, kinda dull and basic. Tried to read Private Dancer I think, but attention wandered, all bargirl stuff. The Money Number One thing sounds interesting, will read.

Expats on ThaiVisa forum are so jaded, now I get it.

I didnt come here for ANY of the things you mention btw. They were all goals to pursue LATER. But when I saw a chance to get ALL THREE I went for it.

I would almost do it again, if I had the choice, just for the experiences. True we could have shagged a few times, then let her drift away (when I sought companionship that did nothave to be not structured around her obligations as a mother). I could have done that and not moved her in. But I always would have wondered. Now I know. No big regrets.

Keep in mind this is the first time Ive played house in 16 years. Guess I was due for a refresher.

EDIT: That book is about bargirls too. I'm sure it would be titillating, but not relevant to my life. Thanks anyway.

[Adama]

Only thing is now you really can't break up with her because sexual relationships are supposed to last until the death of the male spouse. I don't know how you could do the breaking up without sinning there.

There are many verses about women being in subjection. There are many verses about concubines. There are a few in the OT about divorce and remarriage. It's probably best that you read and learn each of those verses so that you can figure out how to do things without sinning, because you want God to bless you, not curse you. Do things the right way, you can get God's blessing. Do things the wrong way, He will curse you. Deuteronomy speaks of the curses for those children who disobey.

[WorldTraveler]

Jester, I'm surprised at you, because you've been on this Forum a long time and should have heard tragic stories like this.
I'm confused what did you come to Thailand for?

1. have a love relationship,
2. shag a lotta women
3. start a business?
Why would you try to mix the three?

Why do you want to shag girls that work for you? Why shit where you eat? I can think of nothing more stupid than all the women you shag knowing each other. With all the women in Thailand why not shag some that don't know each other. Shagging women that know each other will cause jealousy, even if it's only competition among themselves to get at your ATM. One night they'll cut your dick off while you sleep.

Also many foreigners end up dead too or maybe you'll just lose everything. I think it's a no win situation co owning this coffee shop with a women that won't shag you, and doesn't want to let you shag others. You mentioned it went from $1000 to $3000. One thing for sure is that everything will cost more and she'll find many ways to spend your money. I think it can only end badly.

If you haven't read them, you need to read Larry Etleman's Philippine Guide (or whatever it's called) the chapter on extortion/business. Read "Money Number One" which is about Thailand. Buy a copy of "Private Dancer" and read it immediately. There are other books that talk about how you can get scammed or that SEA girls think of you as an ATM first. Just re-read Rock's first post 10 times!
Winston needs to add a thread called Dating Romance Cluster Fkks. The Forum should say: Warning: Start here before you go any further into dating foreign women. I'd be glad to add my stories to the threads.

I'm not trying to be hard on you, but I had a friend that lost about 4 years of his life to girl and about $200,000 of his saving too. He's now "happily" married to Thai. We'll see how that goes. You are far from alone in making these mistakes. What separates you from all the other guys that made big international dating mistakes, is that you are honest and telling yours. They just wimped away to be never heard from again. Because of this, you can correct your problem.

Fair comments.

Read Larry Eltermans book before I left the US, its OK, kinda dull and basic. Tried to read Private Dancer I think, but attention wandered, all bargirl stuff. The Money Number One thing sounds interesting, will read.

Expats on ThaiVisa forum are so jaded, now I get it.

I didnt come here for ANY of the things you mention btw. They were all goals to pursue LATER. But when I saw a chance to get ALL THREE I went for it.

I would almost do it again, if I had the choice, just for the experiences. True we could have shagged a few times, then let her drift away (when I sought companionship that did nothave to be not structured around her obligations as a mother). I could have done that and not moved her in. But I always would have wondered. Now I know. No big regrets.

Keep in mind this is the first time Ive played house in 16 years. Guess I was due for a refresher.

EDIT: That book is about bargirls too. I'm sure it would be titillating, but not relevant to my life. Thanks anyway.

I say all 3 of those things should be attained separately. Don't over estimate the difference between a "good" girl and a bar girl in Thailand. Read "Private Dancer" to see how much you can screw up your life. The ironic thing is that my friend that lost 4 years of his life and 200K had read "Private Dancer" before he did his stupid mistakes, but apparently thought his relationship was different. Some people never learn. My opinion is that most Thais or Filipinas will take as much as they can get. The nicer you are the quicker they'll suck you dry. They will take until you are broke or you cut them off. I got rid of my LT Filipina GF because she couldn't stay on budget. Now she is a college graduate and works in the Middle East.

[Jester]

Only thing is now you really can't break up with her because sexual relationships are supposed to last until the death of the male spouse. I don't know how you could do the breaking up without sinning there.

That's exactly why I didn't toss my my California lady aside, despite past arguments, inability to give me children, inability to fully submit. (She will be visiting me in June, and is texting to me and our mutual friends today.)

God help me if I believed in monogamy!

[Jester]

My opinion is that most Thais or Filipinas will take as much as they can get. The nicer you are the quicker they'll suck you dry. They will take until you are broke or you cut them off.

Okay, you could easily be right about that.

Which nationalities, then do you feel are different? After all, we don't want to just gnash our teeth and curse the darkness... we want to light a candle... Right?

IMO it's more about "maintaining your frame" than about nationalities. Sure, AW's may have a job and theoretically be less about small expenditures of money this year, but they can wreck your whole life through the courts.

I just don't see nationality as a safe harbor on this particular issue.

[Jester]

I say all 3 of those things should be attained separately.

Honestly I don't think it was that big a deal to help her, with an amount I was prepared to walk away from at anytime. (Not 3000usd.) But trying to do it as a semi-business, with intangible benefits to me as well as tangible, made it, as you point out, a mixed up thing.

Specifically, I mixed her need for a business with my need for human company, and tried to make it the same cafe in one house. I should have found myself a nice air conditioned place to live (since I needed to move) with a nice wifi cafe downstairs to work in. And let her visit me when our schedules permitted. Probably what I will do next time.

And I could have just wished her well on her next business. Would have saved me a lot of time looking around and negotiating - which probably cost me as much or more than the hard cash laid out.

I suppose the moment of truth, or the fatal moment if you like, is when you start taking responsibility for another human being..... okay.. and also take them under your roof, so they get veto power over your other social options, can manipulate your time, and can summon up moods to influence the course you set.

Sadly, it seems that the error is in letting her move in.

[droid]

I just really hate being alone, and went for the warmth. That's not a "her" problem, that's a "me" problem.
Honestly I don't think it was that big a deal to help her, with an amount I was prepared to walk away from at anytime. (Not 3000usd.) But trying to do it as a semi-business, with intangible benefits to me as well as tangible, made it, as you point out, a mixed up thing.

I think we have a similar problem, of wanting a harem but also needing the warmth of a relationship, at least i do; it's a bit of a contradiction i guess.
Ideally you would have a "main" girl that would allow you to have your 'excursions'. But that's hard to achieve it seems.

As far as the 3k goes, it's interesting how we sometimes use a lot of brain to save petty bucks on some things, but then just chalk off a few grand on bigger mistakes.

wrote:
My opinion is that most Thais or Filipinas will take as much as they can get. The nicer you are the quicker they'll suck you dry. They will take until you are broke or you cut them off.

The Wild Women of Wongo suck you dry in a nice way, but there's no flights to Wongo

People in general will take as much as they can get, you can't even blame them, for if you yourself don't set limits, how are they to know them?
And for women, well especially for the sweet but more simple minded girls in this area, there is no concept of the zeros to left of the decimal point, you having 3000 might as well be the same as 300000 whatever, it's all the same. That's why they're not engineers lol.

A relevant anecdote here, my colombian ex's sister hit me for some money yesterday, and even though i felt really guilty i had to play dumb and make some excuses. You can't be rescuing people or their bad choices will continue, even though your heart compels you to help. Thankfully she 'mistakenly' sent me a half-naked pic of herself, which was meant for another dude; this made it easier for me to reassert the notion they should ask money from the ones that f**k them, period. My excuses worked perfectly and she is still good with me lol.

Which nationalities, then do you feel are different? After all, we don't want to just gnash our teeth and curse the darkness... we want to light a candle... Right? IMO it's more about "maintaining your frame" than about nationalities.

I think It's both really the place and your "frame". Are you sure about just writing off Thailand from this incident? everybody is really making me curious.
I would recommend Vietnam, as they don't seem to want to rip you off at all, well except for 5 bucks here or there, especially when dealing with bureaucracy. But in general they don't try to make you part with your dough, you don't even have to tip in restaurants, and girls try to actually save you money and sometimes even treat you.

The cons are that the harem thing is difficult. These girls, although very horny, have big hearts, and will be clear about wanting to cook for you and move in, or outright ask you for a "beautiful baby". This is perfect for a dude wanting to settle down, which can be done in a nanosecond. But 'late bloomers' that want to make for lost time will be full handed.

Another thing you'd have to get used to here is them giving affirmative answers to negative questions:

-So you don't serve eggs with bread? (khong banh my opla?)
-Yes (nodding)
-No?
-Yes

I still feel like my skull is splitting when they do that

[Jester]

As far as the 3k goes, it's interesting how we sometimes use a lot of brain to save petty bucks on some things, but then just chalk off a few grand on bigger mistakes.

Interesting.

People in general will take as much as they can get, you can't even blame them, for if you yourself don't set limits, how are they to know them?

Gold.

I would recommend Vietnam..

Another thing you'd have to get used to here is them giving affirmative answers to negative questions:

-So you don't serve eggs with bread? (khong banh my opla?)
-Yes (nodding)

I still feel like my skull is splitting when they do that

they do that here too. smiling.

[xiongmao]

I had a similar problem with a woman in my life (only she was my boss). She put me down, and I handed in my resignation and walked away from a 90% completed project. Best decision I ever made.

[Adama]

I just really hate being alone, and went for the warmth. That's not a "her" problem, that's a "me" problem.
Honestly I don't think it was that big a deal to help her, with an amount I was prepared to walk away from at anytime. (Not 3000usd.) But trying to do it as a semi-business, with intangible benefits to me as well as tangible, made it, as you point out, a mixed up thing.

I think we have a similar problem, of wanting a harem but also needing the warmth of a relationship, at least i do; it's a bit of a contradiction i guess.
Ideally you would have a "main" girl that would allow you to have your 'excursions'. But that's hard to achieve it seems.

Just buy a house and have them all live together. Problem solved.

[WorldTraveler]

I say all 3 of those things should be attained separately.

Honestly I don't think it was that big a deal to help her, with an amount I was prepared to walk away from at anytime. (Not 3000usd.) But trying to do it as a semi-business, with intangible benefits to me as well as tangible, made it, as you point out, a mixed up thing.

Specifically, I mixed her need for a business with my need for human company, and tried to make it the same cafe in one house. I should have found myself a nice air conditioned place to live (since I needed to move) with a nice wifi cafe downstairs to work in. And let her visit me when our schedules permitted. Probably what I will do next time.

And I could have just wished her well on her next business. Would have saved me a lot of time looking around and negotiating - which probably cost me as much or more than the hard cash laid out.

I suppose the moment of truth, or the fatal moment if you like, is when you start taking responsibility for another human being..... okay.. and also take them under your roof, so they get veto power over your other social options, can manipulate your time, and can summon up moods to influence the course you set.

Sadly, it seems that the error is in letting her move in.

In FSU they'll scam you out of your money. I was going to say the US because most women don't even want men. Unfortunately the ones that do and marry you will wipe you out in the end. So it's not about the country, it's about making wise decisions where ever you are, so you have the money to play another day