Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.



View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Mobile Friendly Theme


The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Contrarian Expatriate
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2363
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 6:57 am

The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » December 5th, 2017, 5:00 am

I have long been convinced that online dating media such as Tinder, Match, POF, etc are NOT FOR MEN. The men on those media outnumber the women by ten (or more) to one and the conventional wisdom is that many women use those sites for attention-getting from hordes of "thirsty" men.

However, after having been back in the USA for a little over a month now, I have discovered a niche that is PRO MALE because the ratios of men to women are reversed. That niche is the sugar baby/sugar daddy phenomenon.

My experience is that women (many quite hot) actively reach out to me and I have to turn down and I have become choosy about those with whom I interact. Hot, white and Asian women from ages 18 to 29 are FULLY in play and I have not been flaked on yet in meeting up with them.

I have not had so much success with young, hot, American women in my life until now. Some theories I have about why this is so easy are:

-Young women are currently saddled with debt of school, lifestyle expectations, and men who are increasingly becoming MGTOW.

-Many of these women have not known strong, successful, fathers who were either absent or emasculated cucks.

-Sugar daddy sites are self-selecting in that men of means participate who are willing to pay for dates and treat the girl nicely as a matter or course, not luck.

-Some of these girls next door are willing to have sex and have ongoing relationships with you if they like you.

-Many of these young women are often willing to have ongoing relationships with me WITHOUT my having to pay anything other than dinner and a movie.

So why do I point these things out? Well, I want other men who are discouraged from online dating to give "sugaring" a chance. I would have never imagined that I could have a growing bevy of 20 year old at age 50.

To be sure, there are shameless gold diggers and girls who are looking to pay to play. But I have not dealt with any because those types are very apparent with their "vampy" and overly provocative photos. The girl next door types are generally students seeking mature, male, companionship and treatment. Most of them are choosy about the men agree to meet and they actually respect accomplished older men.

Some girls ask indicate interest in getting a monthly allowance from a Sugar Daddy, being taken on trips, or treated to spending sprees. I have found that it bluster because I have not done anymore than paid for dates and occasionally slipped a girl a 50 bill for her trouble. Most of these girls later REFUSE money because they like to hang out with me.

I'm curious if other guys have had similar experiences with this Sugar Baby Culture. I highly recommend it and I was a skeptic to the highest degree beforehand.




Check out our Dating Sites and International Romance Tours!



MrMan
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2489
Joined: July 31st, 2014, 3:52 am

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by MrMan » December 5th, 2017, 9:47 am

If 'sugar daddy' is advertised on the site, isn't this kind of like an escort service or pretty close to prostitution. The premise is that the man pays a young woman for the temporary arrangement to be his girlfriend and/or provide other services.

We all know it costs money to date or marry, but on the woman's side, it isn't supposed to be just about the money.

And CE, you asked me before to find one post where you had endorsed prostitution...
Last edited by MrMan on December 5th, 2017, 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mark_in_Bangkok
Freshman Poster
Posts: 36
Joined: December 3rd, 2017, 2:48 pm
Location: Bangkok

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok » December 5th, 2017, 9:54 am

.
The OP describes a valuable strategy.
It has worked well for me over many years.

I started using Sugar Daddy strategy in the US about 15 years ago, after trying "on-line dating" and "speed dating," but not happy with the results.
So I tried something different.
Didn't have a name for it, just kept trying until I found what worked.
Contrarian explained the right name for it: Sugar Daddy.

10 years ago I retired and moved to Thailand.
Sugar Daddy methods are working smoothly here, too.
Local men use a Sugar Daddy approach -- they call it having a "minor wife".
So women here are familiar with the concept, and that makes it even easier.

What appeals to me is that I have full control of the situation at all times.
I treat her as a valuable employee.
And that avoids all the problems in a conventional "relationship" that is assumed to be an even balance among "partners".


Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 5:00 am
... online dating media such as Tinder, Match, POF, etc are NOT FOR MEN. The men on those media outnumber the women by ten (or more) to one...

That fits with my experiences over the years.
Sugar Daddies are rare.
For a white man today, it is a very a nice position to be in.

With one big difference:
I don't use "social media" any more.
With a Sugar Daddy approach I don't need to go hunting very often.
But when I do, it is not on social media.
Only face-to-face, in person, daytime.
Takes my time, yes, but the quality of results is much higher.


Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 5:00 am
these girls ... are willing to have ... ongoing relationships with you if they like you.

And the threshold for "they like you" is not very high.
The threshold for money is not that high, either.
I don't drive a fancy car or wear expensive clothes or drink costly liquor, etc.
None of that.


Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 5:00 am
Some girls ask indicate interest in getting a monthly allowance

I always pay an allowance.
I don't ask the woman, and I don't discuss it with her.
I decide the amount and put it in her hand every week.
So far, never had any refuse to accept it.

Several times, a woman has gone out of town to visit her family.
I still give her her allowance, even if I don't see her for a week or two.
And, oh boy!, that gets "appreciation".

My opinion: weekly allowance works best.
Most women think and act short term.
Money coming in every week reminds her exactly where the money is coming from.

And when the time comes to end the "deal", I just stop paying.
That's it.
So far, no hysterics or angry blow-ups from the women.
Yes, a few tears, but nothing worse than that.

Thank you, Contrarian Expatriate, for opening this topic.
Has been a useful strategy for making my life better.

.
.
Member: Thailand Expats Email Discussion.
Membership inquiries welcome; send private message to me on this forum.

MrMan
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2489
Joined: July 31st, 2014, 3:52 am

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by MrMan » December 5th, 2017, 11:10 am

Mark_in_Bangkok wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 9:54 am
Several times, a woman has gone out of town to visit her family.
I still give her her allowance, even if I don't see her for a week or two.
And, oh boy!, that gets "appreciation".
Of course, you don't know if a woman in a scenario like this is taking a trip to another sugar daddy who has less frequent requirements for his arrangement. If that's the case, the 'appreciation' could have something to do with guilt. Do any of these women ever indicate they are looking for a long-term marriage situation, and does participating in situations like this effectively take them out of the local marriage market?

I have heard of 'contract wives' in Indonesia. I don't know how common this is. As far as I know, it is something practiced with expat oil workers. Some very wealthy Indonesians may do this as well. A 'contract wife' may actually marry the man at the mosque, but with the understanding that the marriage will end on a certain date. The man may agree to provide the woman with a certain amount of money, possibly a house to keep at the end of the deal, and she may be expected to be responsible for any children produced from the arrangement. Muslims can also go down to the mosque and marry a second wife. Some Muslims say the consent of the first wife is required. That doesn't always happen. I know of an expat who had a wife back in Europe who finally married his Indonesian girlfriend at a mosque who'd also been with one of his colleagues.

Contrarian Expatriate
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2363
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 6:57 am

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » December 5th, 2017, 11:47 am

MrMan wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 9:47 am
If 'sugar daddy' is advertised on the site, isn't this kind of like an escort service or pretty close to prostitution. The premise is that the man pays a young woman for the temporary arrangement to be his girlfriend and/or provide other services.

We all know it costs money to date or marry, but on the woman's side, it isn't supposed to be just about the money.

And CE, you asked me before to find one post where you had endorsed prostitution...
The Sugar Daddy Culture is often dismissed as prostitution by resentful married people who want to discredit the phenomenon since they cannot partake in it just as you are doing. The reality is prostitution is transnational sex for money, full stop. The Sugar Daddy arrangement is a man of means paying a girl for her time, youth, and beauty. If she agrees, you spend time together developing a friendship or a relationship which can include sex, physical affection, and or massage, and socialization when both parties are willing. Since the providing of funds is not directly for sex, it is not prostitution nor illegal.

If a man makes it clear that he pays a high allowance but expects sex, he can make that clear in his profile. Those girls that reciprocate contact will then know that going into the relationship.

Granted, most girls who agree to be your Sugar Baby fully expect that most men will make sexual overtures. None of them are obligated to accept it, but it is handled on a case by case basis. Many men simply like having young girls hanging around them at home and on the road so non-sexual relationships with hot woman who do laundry, cook, teach yoga, attend classes, shows, and other events is plenty for those men. Other men want to have sex and the girl will either accept or reject that aspect of the relationship.

I met one girl who said her best friend met her fiance on a particular site and she wants to meet a husband as accomplished and intelligent as her friend. She works a decent 9 to 5 job and likes men she can look up to and admire.

Men who make the mistake of marrying lock themselves into one woman and watch her looks and quality decline with time. Unmarried men who want a steady supply of young, attractive, girls to pal around with, hang out with, or have sex with are free to do so in a discreet, honest, and surprisingly male-friendly way.

If you want to dismiss it as "prostitution," that is simply a statement of your "sour grapes" dissatisfaction with being trapped in marriage than anything else. Sugaring is more akin to several short, consensual, temporary marriages that serve their individual purposes until one or both parties chooses to end the association without drama.

You may want to ask your wife if she will allow you to try it. If she indeed permits you to do so, you would see that prostitution has nothing to do with Sugaring and the quality of the girls is almost universally high, wholesome, and quite attractive.

MrMan
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2489
Joined: July 31st, 2014, 3:52 am

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by MrMan » December 5th, 2017, 12:32 pm

No, I'm saying it's close to prostitution, if not outright prostitution, because it's paying a woman to have sex.

Outright paying a young woman to date you is kind of pitiful. You have a very bizaar world view from my perspective, to defend paying a girl to go out with you and have sex with you, and then look down on people who get married.

User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2926
Joined: April 3rd, 2014, 6:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by Yohan » December 5th, 2017, 12:33 pm

Mark_in_Bangkok wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 9:54 am
.....10 years ago I retired and moved to Thailand.
Sugar Daddy methods are working smoothly here, too.
Local men use a Sugar Daddy approach -- they call it having a "minor wife".
So women here are familiar with the concept, and that makes it even easier.
What appeals to me is that I have full control of the situation at all times.
.....
I always pay an allowance.
I don't ask the woman, and I don't discuss it with her.
I decide the amount and put it in her hand every week.
.....
Thank you, Contrarian Expatriate, for opening this topic.
Has been a useful strategy for making my life better.
Sugar baby/sugar daddy contacts are pretty normal in Japan and also in Thailand and other parts of Asia.

In Japan such contacts face sometimes legal challenge because of minor-age girls.

The older man pays 'something' to the much younger girl in return of 'something' - this might be only about coming with you as a 'social escort' for dinner or sports or whatever without any direct sexual contact. Or more...

You continue that contact with the same girl for a while... as long as you pay her - not so much but somehow regularly over weeks or months - and why not?

For many men who are not so young anymore and have some money to spend I think, it is not really about sex, it's more about not to be alone for a few hours - to have somebody next to you for some private conservation... As I said, why not?

User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2926
Joined: April 3rd, 2014, 6:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by Yohan » December 5th, 2017, 12:45 pm

MrMan wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 12:32 pm
No, I'm saying it's close to prostitution, if not outright prostitution, because it's paying a woman to have sex.

Outright paying a young woman to date you is kind of pitiful. You have a very bizaar world view from my perspective, to defend paying a girl to go out with you and have sex with you, and then look down on people who get married.
If it's about money, I can only say, after being married for 40 years, as man - husband and father - you pay always for your women - (like myself with wife and daughters and granddaughter and fostergirl) - regardless if you are married or not. Openly said, from a financial point of view I see no difference.

About prostitution, the question is what is wrong with prostitution? About marriage, what is wrong with marriage?
And what is wrong with a life-style somewhat between prostitution and marriage?

I also wonder if prostitution or 'something close to it' is not considerably cheaper and less risky than being married and taking care of a family.

What is left over are merely aspects of moral consideration, resulting in complaints from feminists and clergymen and some other rather useless and non-productive people...

Contrarian Expatriate
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2363
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 6:57 am

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » December 5th, 2017, 1:58 pm

MrMan wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 12:32 pm
No, I'm saying it's close to prostitution, if not outright prostitution, because it's paying a woman to have sex.

Outright paying a young woman to date you is kind of pitiful. You have a very bizaar world view from my perspective, to defend paying a girl to go out with you and have sex with you, and then look down on people who get married.
Some might say your marriage to your wife is much closer to prostitution, and by the sound of it, you are harboring some bitterness about having to remain with your aging, less attractive wife so you are trying to criticize men with better, smarter options and with better women. That's not a good look for you Mr. Man.

As a matter of nature, it is a women's job to obtain resources from men, and smart men give resources on their terms only not on marital or state-mandated terms.

A young, very hot, and desirable woman has many men hitting on her each and every day. If men who sugar have the means to have that highly sought after attention focused on them, all the better. Furthermore, the money spent sugaring is only a tiny fraction of the money you spend financing your aging wife and family's day to day expenses. I would say my money is much better spent than yours since I spend it when I want and on whom I want which is always young, hot, nubile women. I suspect your inability to do so is really what is triggering you here. Such is the married life, you chose it so deal with it. 8)

I am a MGTOW and while the freedoms and luxuries such as sugaring young women are open to us, they will always seem bizarre to men like yourself, bored, married, trads who hate to see unmarried people happier than themselves.

Again, I sincerely ask that you try hard to get your wife's permission to develop a sugaring relationship with some young girls. If your wife does not destroy you and ultimately allows it, you will see that sugaring is a good and fun thing for both parties and that you would likely want to divorce your wife at the first opportunity to explore sugaring further.

MrMan
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2489
Joined: July 31st, 2014, 3:52 am

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by MrMan » December 5th, 2017, 2:51 pm

Contrarian Expat,

I have seen quite a few condescending insulting posts from you over the past few months. You also brag about having money, looking around 30 though you are in your 50's, and how a 19-year-old and women in their 30's want to hang around you, while you go on about the MGTOW lifestyle and how it is supposedly superior to marriage. Now, I read you are paying girls to spend time with you. Did you meet the 19-year-old on a sugar baby/sugar daddy website?

If you need to pay money to get a girl to pay you some attention, I understand why you would want to do that. But doing that and being insulting and condescending to posters who get married doesn't go well together. If you are actually admitting to paying girls to date you, then you should be careful and behave yourself with the insults. You have left yourself wide open. I don't see why you aren't embarrassed to admit it.

I'm sure it's a tough sell to the younger generation you are trying to influence that paying a young woman to spend some time with you is superior to having a woman who actually loves you and cares about you, especially since not all of them have a lot of money for that sort of thing. And some posters don't seem like they will when they get to be 50.

MrMan
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2489
Joined: July 31st, 2014, 3:52 am

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by MrMan » December 5th, 2017, 3:06 pm

Yohan wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 12:45 pm
MrMan wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 12:32 pm
No, I'm saying it's close to prostitution, if not outright prostitution, because it's paying a woman to have sex.

Outright paying a young woman to date you is kind of pitiful. You have a very bizaar world view from my perspective, to defend paying a girl to go out with you and have sex with you, and then look down on people who get married.
If it's about money, I can only say, after being married for 40 years, as man - husband and father - you pay always for your women - (like myself with wife and daughters and granddaughter and fostergirl) - regardless if you are married or not. Openly said, from a financial point of view I see no difference.

About prostitution, the question is what is wrong with prostitution? About marriage, what is wrong with marriage?
And what is wrong with a life-style somewhat between prostitution and marriage?

I also wonder if prostitution or 'something close to it' is not considerably cheaper and less risky than being married and taking care of a family.

What is left over are merely aspects of moral consideration, resulting in complaints from feminists and clergymen and some other rather useless and non-productive people...
There is commitment. There's ethics. There's having a marriage to raise children in. There are lots of reasons for marriage.

Women do expect men to support them, and this is a natural thing. They are supposed to pay back in other ways--domestic duties or whatever, not just sex.

If a woman marries, that's a respectable and normal thing. She is supposed to like the man, to love the man.

But if she's a sugar baby, she basically knows she's whoring herself out. There is a marriage mentality, and there is a whore mentality.

MrPeabody
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1457
Joined: April 13th, 2008, 7:53 pm

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by MrPeabody » December 5th, 2017, 4:07 pm

This actually sounds like a lot of blarney.

I looked at one US site for curiosity and the women looked average to below average and with high expectations.

Also, doing this in the third world can be dangerous. There was recently a man in Mexico who posted a video where a girlfriend who lived with him for 11 months totally cleaned out his apartment when he was gone even taking the drapes. These women in third world countries all have boyfriends and are gaining intelligence on you. A rich gringo handing out cash is a fat target.

Contrarian frequently writes posts that always makes him sound like the boss, never any failures, and few details provided. Not what you would expect from something that was actually real.

Mark_in_Bangkok
Freshman Poster
Posts: 36
Joined: December 3rd, 2017, 2:48 pm
Location: Bangkok

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok » December 5th, 2017, 4:10 pm

Yohan wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 12:45 pm
What is left over are merely aspects of moral consideration, resulting in complaints from feminists and clergymen and some other rather useless and non-productive people...

Yohan, I sure like your attitude!
.
.
Member: Thailand Expats Email Discussion.
Membership inquiries welcome; send private message to me on this forum.

Mark_in_Bangkok
Freshman Poster
Posts: 36
Joined: December 3rd, 2017, 2:48 pm
Location: Bangkok

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok » December 5th, 2017, 4:16 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 1:58 pm
As a matter of nature, it is a women's job to obtain resources from men, and smart men give resources on their terms only not on marital or state-mandated terms.

Yes!
That's the essential concept right there.

Thank you again, Contrarian, for thinking as you do.
.
.
Member: Thailand Expats Email Discussion.
Membership inquiries welcome; send private message to me on this forum.

User avatar
Master
Junior Poster
Posts: 518
Joined: December 22nd, 2007, 7:56 am
Location: Insane Asylum, Strip Joints, Playboy Mansion, Public Enemies List No.1, Harley Quinn's Heart
Contact:

Re: The Sugar Baby Culture - A Revelation

Post by Master » December 5th, 2017, 4:24 pm

Morpheus,

Sugar sites are hooking sites for desperate old weak men. Men who somehow lucked into success but werent successful in their youths with women. Who feel manly buying off desperate young emotionally unstable retards who had such as weakling fathers who probably abandoned them. Probably had sad childhoods with molestations included. Such old fags have to go to whore sites because they cant get women in life. They need to buy this low level misguided girls who have nothing going for them and are desperate for money. Such men couldnt deal with a real relationship, cant handle a real woman, have pedofile tendacies, and should be raped in jail by mamba. Such impotent men need pills and other stimulants to get it up, mothers were whores, and are closeted homos. Sooner or later these sugar mama whores will find a bigger dick( like mine) and leave your old raggedy ass( usually pennyless and with a black dildo in your ass).
Introduce a little anarchy, upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.
Become An Agent of Choas.

Image

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Dating, Relationships, Foreign Women”