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Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
Do you fellas pay for the other person when you go out on a date? I have hopes for the members of this community respecting themselves enough to not be doing that sort of s*** but I gotta ask it.
By paying I mean the purchase of food, drinks, admission fees, train tickets, etc expressly for the other person's use while you're out together, NOT something you buy for yourself and then share some of because you're the kind of person who shares what you have. Sharing your own food, drinks, etc is OK imo; we do that with our friends whether male or female.
I normally paid for meals, transportation, admission, etc. going on dates with foreign women in their country, for a couple of reasons.
- a date that's simple by western standards would be a financial stress, given what local salaries are
- a foreign girl who I'd meet is normally more sincere, nicer, sweeter, more pleasant and interested than the women I could meet domestically
On the increasingly rare dates I have with western women, they almost always just reach for their wallet themselves, I never try to stop them. I think that's the norm now. Last time a first date didn't do that was maybe nine years ago, she was a needle in the haystack traditional kind of woman and we ended up dating for a while.
I don't think a guy will get too far with a western woman if he doesn't pay for anything. It's been awhile since I've dated one but I've bought them drinks but I did expect them to return the compliment. It's a good way to gauge whether they're a freeloader or not.
With Filipina's for example, because they're usually dirt poor, one has to expect to pay for all.
I think it is wrong to pay for another person's alcoholic beverages if that person is a prospect. So I don't pay for anyone's alcohol. As for paying for dates, it doesn't matter who pays. What matters is whether the other person is a quality person of good character with upright integrity. Or is it a person who is crooked, who only seeks to honor herself, or does she think she is a princess or a queen? I'm much more interested in respect than money.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.
Your self-respect comment is laughable. Dating foreign women in their country for the purpose of building a relationship where they will leave everything behind to be with you in your country, you had better show them you will take care of them. It's also incredibly inexpensive in most foreign countries popular for international dating and the women are more traditional, that is kind of the point in going abroad in the first place.
If you're talking about dating women in America, well, in that case, most of us here see that as fairly pointless.
I'm a little disappointed in you guys. If a chick likes you, she will like you whether or not you pay for her. If she doesn't like you, paying for her won't change that fact. It will open yourself up to being used, though. That has been my overwhelming experience. You folks have never paid for a girl only to find that she started thinking of you as nothing more than a debit card? Do you want her to like you for you, or do you want her to like you for your money? (And what happens to your relationship later down the line if your fortunes turn and your money runs out?)
Although I wasn't talking specifically about foreign women, does it matter? I know I've been used by foreign girls back when I was simp enough to pay for their meals and drinks. And I often justified it by saying to myself, "Well, it won't cost much", ignoring the principle involved.
I mean, if one person is always doing the paying, that is not an even relationship. Especially in the beginning, when it is so often the case that the girl is barely invested in you. It's a bad idea to be invested in someone who isn't invested in you. That goes for all kinds of relationships, with females or with males.
Just because she wants to date you doesn't mean she'll stay with you forever. Dates are about getting to know each other. She might like you initially but by the end of the first engagement she may see you from a different perspective due to your actions.
Put the boot on the other foot. If you liked a girl and went on a first date and she began farting, cursing, phoning up other guys etc. would you feel the same way about her as you did previously?
Being a total tightwad can be a turn-off for some women so it's possible to shoot yourself in the foot even before the date has ended.
^ Oh I agree being a tightwad can be a turn-off. That's why we should always offer to pay our share AND hold others to the same standard. Paying your share is not being a tightwad. No one should expect more or less from you.
If once in awhile you feel like treating, well, that is something we occasionally do even among friends whether male or female. "Hey everyone, tonight is on me!" Sure, say those words now and then. But you wouldn't treat your friends time after time, would you? You wouldn't want them expecting you to do so whenever you go out together. Pretty soon you'd start attracting the wrong kind of friends. Likewise, paying for girls (especially on the first few dates) attracts the wrong kind of girls.
Because it's not about the money. It's about holding others to standards. And it's about respecting yourself.
You are not a walking checkbook. You are a human being with deep intrinsic value. You deserve to be appreciated as such.
Now I don't know what farting, cursing, and phoning up others has to do with what I said. Neither party should be doing those things on dates. Not phoning up others at least. Farting is unflattering but can't always be helped, and cursing isn't necessarily bad at all depending on personalities.
I'm talking about buying ONE drink here. You don't have to go overboard by buying her gifts or taking her out to a fancy restaurant. It's not disrespecting yourself, it's normal courteous behaviour - plus within 30 minutes or so you'll learn something important about her.
Will she play fair, return the courtesy and buy you a drink back? You don't even have to prompt her. Just wait. If nothing materializes make your excuses and leave.
First dates can be awkward and people get nervous so it's best not to exacerbate the situation by unnecessarily forcing your standards even before you sit down together. That can wait until after the first drink . Making her feel relaxed is vitally important in my experience so bear that in mind.
A man who buys a woman isn't one who buys her a solitary drink out of courtesy. He showers her with gifts on the basis of gaining her affections. Of course, it's a car crash waiting to happen but he's either oblivious to it or simply doesn't care so long as he lands the "prize". She may even like him to a degree but she most likely won't respect him.
As for the farting and cursing remarks, it was an example how a person can change their viewpoint towards someone. I'm miffed to why you can't understand that!
When it comes to paying for dates, I'll pay for what was pre planned. I'll pay for the price of two movie tickets and the taxi/jeepney/tricycle/ect. fare for two.
If my date wants something extra that wasn't pre planned (like an extra drink or pair of shoes at the store), it has to come from her wallet.
Buying one drink and then waiting to see what happens...OK that is one way to go about things. And not the worst way, as it cuts your losses to a small amount.
I think you can improve on that by not buying anything for her at all. Why should you? Is she an adult or a child? If she is an adult she can pay for herself, and you will not have forced any standards on her, because an adult is normally expected to pay for the things she orders for herself.
Awkwardness and miscommunication can be avoided by implying from the beginning that she will be responsible for her own expenses. For instance, if going to a restaurant, give her an estimate before you go of how much that restaurant will cost and ask if she's okay with that. When actually at the restaurant tell the waiter loudly and clearly so that everyone can hear that you'll both be on your own tab.
They might not like it and a good portion of girls will not go out with you a second time, but good riddance to that type of girl, right? Basically, my way accomplishes what your way does without spending any money on her at all.
A man should ask himself honestly, "Would I pay if it was my male friend instead?" If not, he should keep his hard-earned money to himself. Particularly in the beginning when girls love to take your free handouts and run. Hell, some women make a career out of going on lots of dates with lots of men in order to do just that.
Dating to me is something of an investment.
I am neither a tightwad, nor an idiot.
First dates are for the day, coffee and a light snack, to see if we hit it off and the chemistry is good.
Light lunches, or good take-away at her office follow, this keeps the bills down, and tests if she is okay with being seen with me.
When a genuine spark is there, I am willing to pick her up, pay for dinner, movies, drinks (1-2 drinks), then drop her off for an evening.
As a safeguard, I make sure to plan the venues and activities, so it stays within reason.
Then I drop the tempo, by taking her on a picnic or something inexpensive, but interesting. This tests if it she can deal with the change, and if she's into me, as opposed to the extravagance provided.
If, at any time, I feel that she's not into me, or just after the good times, I stop seeing her.
At the end of the day, if I really enjoy her company, I don't mind paying.
In Eastern Europe the guy is generally expected to pick up the tab for the date. If the guy is considerate he will also pay her taxi back home (that is if he doesn't get lucky.)
The problem now though in Eastern Europe is that there are pro-daters, restaurant and taxi scammers and everything else. So one has to strike a balance between being a gentleman is not being taken in one of these scams.
If she asks you to pay for the taxi to and from the meeting always confirm the amount. Get to know rates in your area to ensure you are not being scammed. If it's a reasonable amount I would say let her come. Another option is that you can send an Uber or Uklon to her address to pick her up then pay the driver directly when she comes. This way you can ensure she is really where she says she is. (Taxi scammers often collect taxi fare but often come by public transport or walk.)
Also, don't let her choose the meeting place. "I want to eat in my favourite restaurant" is a common thing I hear. Choose a restaurant or café that is affordable to you and one where she can't run the bill up too high.
It's better to meet at a landmark first, for example Opera House or Park and go for a little walk first before committing to a restaurant or café. After a few minutes walk you may not want to continue on the date (or she may not want to continue with you). You can make a polite excuse and part company.
If you wanted to bother with dating in the West, the idea would be to agree that you would pay for the first couple of dates before sex, but then if no sex was forthcoming you would go Dutch. That would eliminate the possibility of dinner whores.
I think you're all on the right track but possibly have the wrong goal in mind. The way I see it, many men here are looking at the short term goal of not getting scammed out of a few dollars. That is a fine goal, but it seems this is not the ideal goal.
The ideal goal is to eliminate the scammers, not simply to evade getting scammed on a date or a few dates. Because even if a man manages to evade getting scammed in dating, keep in mind that if the woman is a scammer, she has multiple other tricks up her sleeve. In other words, you haven't weeded out the scammer. You've just evaded one of her scams. You will still have a scammer on your hand possibly, you just prevented the opportunity. It is just that you managed to wiggle out of one scam, but she will have others or she will think of others, if she is a scammer.
It might actually be better to let things come and go as they will. Sit back, and let her show you her whole heart. What direction does she want to take things? Why? Because if she does what comes naturally, if she turns out to be a scammer, then you can simply eliminate her. Rather than evading a few small scams in the beginning only to get royally scammed much deeper later on.
Just like if you lend someone $100 which they've promised to pay it back. If they don't pay it back, you've only lost $100, but also they've revealed their level of integrity and character. Money comes and goes. It is the person who needs to be evaluated. So I wouldn't worry so much about having to pay extra. Your goal is to determine whether this is a woman of character for the long run, not is she going to run up the bill too high for me.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.