Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
Here is something interesting from a PUA named Tyler Durden. He says looks DO NOT MATTER to women! He also says money IS NOT IMPORTANT to women! WTF? Well, here he is explaining himself, check it out.
The more rational and realistic gurus in PU community will at least acknowledge that looks and money are a big advantages and guys without them need to compensate in other ways. I think this Tyler guy was made out to look pretty unethical or at least not a team placer in "The Game" if I recall correctly. Some of these guys will say anything to sell their services and products.
I will watch the vids later and comment further if anything comes to mind.
I believe it to a certain point. There are guys who look rather ugly (obese and/or haggard face) who manage to land some pretty good looking women. However they also tend to dress well, have genuinely good people skills, and are charismatic in that Adolf Hitler way. They can just command respect/attention with their presence. It's rarer than what these PUA guys talk about but I do agree that it exists.
Haven't seen the vids so I'll just point that out, but looks aren't everything.
I'd rather have a good-looking guy than a troll, just for aesthetics, I mean people prefer to look at what is easier on the eyes, right? But the whole thing about being 'laughed into bed' is true. I've spoken to some guys before who I wouldn't be attracted to, but then they start making me laugh and I think, hmm...
I don't think money matters either unless the girl is materialistic. It's NOT a given that women want money. It's about character. Money gives the impression a man is powerful, successful, reliable and stable, which is great from a biological standpoint, but you don't need money for this. I'd rather be with a good poor guy than a rich bastard and I can't think of anyone I know who'd disagree.
For American women, money IS IMPORTANT! If a guy in the US has any chance for a hot chick HE HAS TO HAVE MONEY or he is shit-out-of-luck!
Hot women only date men with lot's of money in America. I have heard guys from southern Califorinia who have said, "yeah, there are a lot of hot chicks here, BUT they only date doctors, lawyers, investment bankers and actors." If you don't make a lot of money in the US, you are stuck dating fat chicks and ugly chicks, you might get an average looking chick at best.
For American women, when it comes to men, money is number one, then looks and then maybe the guys character. It wasn't always this way though, back in the 50's women wanted good men, character was the most important thing. Now a days, if the guy doesn't make a six figure income, he is relegated to single mothers, fat chicks, ulgy chicks and the occassional average looking woman. Welcome to dating in modern day America!
my two cents.... my best friend is from iran ( she is a little to old for me about 42 ) she told me the reason why american women look at me
is because i am handsome and i am black. ofcourse that is how far they go. they do not want to meet still.
continuing on....my american female friend like men with tattoes, gotees, fights people and has a gun in their hand. oh yes she is NOT attracted to
men with good wholesomeness on the inside like me. she is attracted to men that have an evil frown on their face. that angry look. really weird
another female friend of mine ( she used to be actually ) is attracted to guys with BIG MUSCLES.
so i would say yes the looks are very very important.
both girls that are american female friends...they LOVE MONEY. When they see a guy with a mercedes or expensive house they want to use him
for money. But at the same time the refuse to do it because they know its wrong. its like they fight with this gold digger programming in them.
that is what i see and believe. this guru guy is wrong about american women. they do want money and are attracted to looks.
OK, I watched the vids.
Tyler strikes me as a convincing and somewhat charismatic presenter. His message is seductive for average Joes - looks absolutely don't matter, being monied can even work against you.
But put it in perspective. His biz model involves attracting average frustrated chumps to spend lots of money and take his expensive courses or enroll in his boot camps. Part of this requires making them feel good, filling them with hope, making the impossible suddenly seem possible. Its similar to those guys touting get rich quick schemes on infomercials except that Tyler's a bit more laid back.
Consider the content on its own merits. Does anyone with a fair amount of real life experience in the dating and clubbing scene in any country really believe that, all else being equal, the 5'7" pale, pot bellied, and balding guy with an unattractive face, with somewhat better gaming skills, is going to do better than the 6'2", well tanned, slim and muscled guy with a handsome face and full head of hair. Looks don't matter at all??? Anyone believe this?
Here's the caveat. I believe certain types of charisma can compensate for average or even below average looks. But, and this is the million dollar question, can the relevant types of charisma be effectively learned? And if so, can these PU gurus help transform their garden variety plain and boring students into mega chick magnets. My guess is that most of the gurus focus their charm at attracting students instead of actually changing them.
Now I do agree with agree with him that guys (with or without a lot money) should avoid becoming the walking wallet. Your money is for you and your world. If you carelessly throw money at women, it can actually repress any sexual attraction she may otherwise feel for you. It makes you look like you feel the need to buy their time and attention, not attractive. It registers weakness at a unconscious level. As Tyler said, you automatically mark yourself as a provider, not a lover.
But I also believe being visibly wealthy is a lot more attractive than appearing average which in turn is probably better than being broke. I believe broke guys may still do well if they are extremely young and attractive. But how long does extreme youth last? Being of average means in a place like LA is pretty damn boring. You better have lots of connections, charisma, or looks to get anywhere. Rich guys in LA are the catch and can be sexually attractive as long as they project strength.
BTW, if you ask women what they look for in a man, etc, you are likely to get an answer which is often quite incongruous with their actions. I even remember one study which compared what women requested of a man in her online personal add vs. what kind of man she was actually became attracted to. The results showed very big differences for a large percentage of the women in the study. As I and others have said before, its not what they say, its what they do.
I can only talk about personal experience,
I recently started working out
And lately, more girls have been noticing me
And girls that didn't seem interested before
Are now more interested or outright interested.
The thing a lot of them say is,
"Wow, you're looking really good!",
"You've really been working out!"
Keep in mind Tyler is not the only PUA out there.
There's a guy called Pook,
If you Google "The Book of Pook"
You can legally download his book for free.
He says that working out makes a huge difference.
I think David DeAngelo suggests the same thing.
From my own real life experience
(As opposed to idle speculation)
As for money,
If a girl is looking for a provider,
Then yes it makes a difference.
If she travels in social circles with money,
Then yes it makes a difference.
If she comes from a materialistic background (esp. Asian),
Then yes it makes a difference.
If money = status in her social circles,
Then yes it makes a difference.
If she's 18-21 and looking for fun,
Then money is not a direct issue,
But of course if you call a girl at that age up
And invite her on your boat for a day of sailing,
Pretty much a guarantee she's not going to flake.
Or if you take her on a trip to Cuba,
You know she's going with you
(Whether you get sex or not however will be dependent
On your level of game)
Or if she's into drugs and you have the money to buy drugs,
Then yes it makes a difference.
My view on it is this:
For looks, that is within your control,
Even if you have no money, you can get in shape,
Look up P90X or Insanity, very inexpensive
And you don't need lots of expensive equipment.
Cooking for yourself is cheaper than eating out with bad foods,
Diet can make up to 70% of your results with 30% being the workouts.
So save money AND look good.
As for money, you're going to need money for yourself anyway,
Fulfill your potential, get out there and do your best for you,
And if you happen to become a millionaire, great.
If not, at least you'll be taken care of,
And you may have some left over to take a girl out
And show her a good time.
Thanks for some real life context. Yes, David D seems to have a more balanced and believable message. I mentioned before that Tyler might have been made out to look like a prick in "The Game" during the days in the SoCal mansion with Mystery and Style. Do you remember if that's right?
If working out has helped you so clearly, that's a strong indicator that looks do in fact count. Money also seems to be a big help in most cases from what you say.
Which program do you recommend, Insanity or P90X? Which has more resistance (muscle building) and better diet plans?
I know you're going to think I'm talking rubbish. But I reeeeally think you guys are putting too much stock in money.
I'm trying to think of a single girl I know who even has a rich boyfriend/husband or actively wants one. I do however know a lot whose men are really struggling with finances and careers, including unemployment, etc., and it doesn't matter to their relationship. It just isn't an issue unless you are insanely, ridiculously wealth-obsessed, like one of those girls who will only wear a Rolex, etc. Those are the girls you don't want in your life, so don't try and attract them!
Either that or I totally don't understand how it is in the U.S. and I should just shut up.
There is so much great content on this forum,
I'm glad I can contribute something back.
Yes, in the book The Game, Tyler was not shown in the best light.
I know people who are RSD and ex-RSD and generally they're not too positive about him.
As well, he has had a steady girlfriend for the better part of a number of years now. imo it's easy to talk a good game and even execute in a boot camp setting when you know you have someone waiting for you at home, so you have zero emotional investment. Whereas when I'm single, approaching girls has a completely different dynamic. And I'm saying this from personal experience.
It's easy to approach girls when you know you already have one in the bag, psychologically you already have a buffer and backup plan, so when I watch those videos of him speaking, I'm skeptical because of this.
Not that it completely matters, but a lot of his marketing hype is to get "10's", but his girlfriend is definitely not a "10". She's Latina (which is personally not my type) and I'd say if I had to rate her a "5", maybe "6" if she put herself together nicely. Even if this is subjective, he's definitely not getting even close to the results himself that he proclaims his materials can get for others.
As said, it doesn't matter about the looks, I myself like girls that are probably considered 6-8's, and I'm very happy about that. But of course, I'm not the one selling products to people claiming they can get 9's and 10's.
I should mention, I don't know him personally so the above is mostly speculation, observation and opinion, so take what I say with a huge grain of salt. I could meet him one day and he could turn out to be the real deal and an amazing human being.
As for which program, right now I am doing pure P90X. I have friends who have completed the 90 day program and they look amazing. P90X is definitely more resistance and Insanity is more cardio/pylometrics. As for diet plan, if you Google "paleo diet", that's what I would recommend. Basically, meat and vegetables and no carbs.
As far as money goes, I agree with BellaRuth to some extent.
I make 6-figures and drive a decent car, but I like girls who are on the younger side (late teens-early 20's) who are more down to earth types. For this type of girl, having a nice car is actually an obstacle as it makes me either unattainable or they may feel I am materialistic, so a lot of times I don't even take my car out.
Because of the type of girl I like, if I had to do it all over again, I'd buy a cheapo car (a Honda Civic), keep it nice and clean or even not have a car at all and live near the subway line.
However if I wanted a flashy "10" along with the lifestyle, then yes, I'd most likely need the money. I actually like low maintenance girls and prefer naturally cute to made up gorgeous.
I' ve seen some fat and/or ugly guys who just have character. They know how to work the crowd, be the center of attention. They're fun to be around at all times, and they, yes, take home hot women. I don't believe they are playing some "game" or trying to be like this, or compensate for anything. That's just the ay they are. They can't help it.
Someone who is practicing "game" or some technique will revert to normal when back at home, or they will misstep sometimes. The guys I know, it is completely part of them.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
this is a tricky topic,
the bottom line is you do not need to have a dime in your pocket to get a woman in bed, period.
people seriously underestimate mindset. it is all about mindset. you can have a rich mindset or a poor mindset, whether or not you really are rich or poor is irrelevant to getting laid.
i'm talking about getting laid, not having a relationship, which is what being a pick up artist is about. it depends on your goal, are you looking to get laid or have a girlfriend? because if you want a girlfriend money is going to become a factor. you do not need to be rich, but you need to be stable or at least trying, as women love having men as projects to fix and mold into their ideal mate.
Tyler Durden is right on point...it is ALL ABOUT MINDSET and literally nothing more. you can dazzle any women and be sleeping on a sidewalk. eventually she's going to find out you're homeless, but after you have sex, it wont matter anyway.
limiting beliefs is what limit your reality. money is just paper...confidence is a priceless asset and it is why you see ugly men with hot chicks. because women want confidence as confidence is a form of protection. '
looking like a million bucks and having a million bucks is two completely different things and it shows exactly why money doesn't matter when it comes to getting laid. you can have one nice outfit and be dead broke, go out one night and kill...take home any woman you want. confidence attracts money and women know this instinctively. so it doesn't matter whether he has money or not, he has the means to get it.
I agree, the only thing I will add is that confidence does not grow on trees nor does it drop out of the sky. Confidence increases with achievement. If the goal is to get laid/short term relationships, it doesn't really matter if you can't rub two nickels together. Girls drop their panties for all sorts of struggling artist types or the personal trainer that's still paying off his loans from school.
The key thing in getting laid is being interesting, the rest just kind of happens. The TRICK however is not to appear desperate, which is hard if its been a long time since you've been laid. This is why P4P at least for me is a reasonable option but in America its far too expensive and the risk are from Johnny Law are too high.
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