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Upper vs. Lower tiers: Different dating markets for men

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Upper vs. Lower tiers: Different dating markets for men

Postby Winston » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:44 am

Hi all,
I've been looking through Dan DeLa Cruz's ebook The Global Dating Revolution and found a few interesting chapters that explain why some countries are dating paradises for women, and others for men. He gave some explanations I didn't consider before. Here they are pasted below from one of his chapters. (I'm sure he won't mind since this is helping promote his book)

From The Global Dating Revolution:

UPPER AND LOWER TIERS

Let’s break the world into two parts, favorable for guys and unfavorable for guys. The regions that are unfavorable we’ll call the “upper tiers,â€￾ while the favorable regions we’ll call the “lower tiers.â€￾
The countries included in the unfavorable “upper tierâ€￾ are the U.S.A., Canada, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and high income Asian and Pacific nations. In the image below, these countries are represented by dark blue. They account for only 30%-35% of the world’s population.
The numerous, more favorable, lower tier countries—all countries not in dark blue—account for approximately 65%-70% of the world’s population.

As you will see In the image below, the places around the world that are favorable to men vastly outnumber the places where the environment favors the females. For the sake of brevity, we can say
that the areas in dark blue favor women, while every other color region are places where the environment favors the men.

Image

Image 2 – GDP Nominal Per Capita 2007
--Wikipedia


The dividing line is simple: Its GDP per capita income reveals whether a country is an environment which favors men or creates a nightmare for them.

For example, in both the USA and Ireland, two Level 3 Tier countries, men find it tough to find high quality, feminine, down-to earth women who do not already wear a wedding band or aren’t already committed. While some men in the USA and Ireland will have success, it’s a numbers game: Some find “the right one,â€￾ while many more settle for whatever they can get, and more men still, find
themselves completely left out.

In contrast, in Bolivia and Nicaragua, two Level 1 Lower Tier countries, economy and culture have created a booster crop of young, attractive, sexy, family-orientated ladies who are seriously looking for single guys to date.

Argentina and Chile on the other hand, Level 2 Lower Tier countries (also categorized as “Middle Tierâ€￾ countries), while distinctly more favorable for men than any of the Upper Tier countries, are not
as advantageous as Bolivia and Nicaragua, where young women are culturally molded into their roles of supportive, cherishing, appreciative girlfriends and wives. However I would always opt to be in either Argentine or Chile than in any of the wealthiest nations of the world, if my goal is to meet and date attractive women.

The following holds true in most situations:

Upper Tiers

Men here must compete intensely for women, and even more intensely for attractive women. In the Upper Tiers, men need social skills, looks, money, power, fame, status, and confidence
to succeed with the women of their choice. It’s a numbers game. There simply aren’t enough attractive females so the males have to set themselves apart in order to win. Because of
the disproportion between attractive women and the men who seek them, many men lower their standards and date women who they are not attracted to, and even women who mistreat
them, in order to have any female companionship.

Lower and Middle Tiers

Women here must compete intensely for men. To compete successfully, they need seduction skills, a well-maintained figure, and good looks. They also need to make themselves available and friendly, leaving themselves open to all romantic possibilities. They seek out partners and flirt aggressively. In these Tiers, often, sexy women lower their standards, dating older and less attractive men, even tolerating abuse and mistreatment in order to have male companionship


There are exceptions, of course, in both the Upper and Lower Tier experiences, but most cases will be found within the range of these two descriptions. A case in point: In Lower Tier Bolivia, I dated
scores of attractive, friendly, family-oriented women, while my cousin Enrique, who left Bolivia for Upper Tier USA, with its GDP per capita of $43,000 per year, had the worse experience with women in his life!


Upper Tiers:

4 ENVIRONMENTAL HANDICAPS: THE FOUR WHAMMIES:

Obesity

Obesity results in a lower percentage of females with .7 waist-to-hip ratio. This decreases the number of attractive females in a population

Strong Male Competition

High income males have more money, and time to devote to things like the gym, learning how to play the guitar, going out, spending money in bars and clubs, etc. They can spend money on nice clothes, haircuts, cars, college education, dating books and bachelor pads. In short they can compete better for attractive women. Upper tiers also have a high percentage of male diversity due to immigration; This male diversity increases the competition.

Male Surplus

A gender imbalance arises due to internal and international immigration. Healthy economies and industrial sectors bring in more males in search of employment. Labor demands dictate the severity.

Aging Talent

Pool In the upper tiers there are, in general, more old people then young people. Meaning most of the people you will encounter throughout the upper tiers will in general be older. For example, it’s a well known fact, that there is a large number of “baby boomersâ€￾ that are nearing retirement age in many upper tier nations. For example in many upper tier nations there are more women who are 35 then young women in their 20s. The upper tier nations have the oldest populations in the world and in many cases the young people that help keep the median age at bay are the immigrants that move to the upper tiers from the lower tiers (these immigrants are mostly male).

Lower Tiers:

4 PHYSICAL POWERS: THE FANTASTIC FOUR:

Great Talent Pool

High percentage of .7 waist-to-hip ratios (hourglass figures) in the female population due reasons we will later explain. Women in lower tiers also compete more aggressively against each other for the males, therefore they have more incentive to be in shape, slim, and sexy. In the lower tiers it’s generally more common to see gyms full of women.

Weak Competition

Lower tiers consist of the 65%-70% of the world population. They are also the lowest income earners in the world. Most males here are economically challenged. Males simply don’t have the economic resources to compete on the same scale as the guys in the upper tiers.

Female Surplus

In most of the lower tiers the female surplus is due to the mass emigration of males, who migrate to the upper tiers in order to work and send money back home or to give themselves more economic opportunities. When there are more women then men, the odds are in your favor.

Youthful Talent Pool

More young women in the population then older women. The lower tiers have had the
highest birth rates in the world for decades, making for a much younger and more vibrant population.

All four of these powers increase your odds greatly in meeting and dating attractive women!

Each of these elements of power varies from country to country, and even from city to city, but generally, all Lower Tier countries give men a vast advantage in the game of love. And here’s one place where guys have it all!
Last edited by Winston on Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mr. Local vs. Mr. Global

Postby Winston » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:56 am

Dan gave one reason in his book why upper tier countries have more men competing for fewer women. He said that in wealthier countries, there are many more immigrant workers coming to make money, and most of them are males. So the wave of male workers coming in creates a surplus of males, which is bad for the dating market there for males, giving women more choices and men less.

Does that make sense? Could that be why the US seems to have more single men than women?

Dan also wrote this other chapter in his book I like which illustrates the difference between the life of a typical global dater vs. a typical local dater very accurately. Here it is.

From The Global Dating Revolution:

MR. LOCAL VS. MR. GLOBAL

Mr. Local, an American guy with good social skills, has lived his whole life in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (USA). Because he only dates American women raised in Philly—has never dated foreign women, Mr. Local has no point of comparison. Mr. Global, on the other hand, is a
bit shy. He has less social skills. But Mr. Global has joined The Global Dating Revolution because he understands that foreign lands and foreign women have much more to offer.

While Mr. Local dates American women who have high expectations of him and call him a “loserâ€￾ whenever he disappoints them, Mr. Global is dating sexy women who are “Made In Brazilâ€￾ and is
having the time of his life.

Mr. Local kicks himself for his lackluster dating life. He tries to improve his love life by improving himself, spending money on health supplements, gym memberships, fresh haircuts, clothes, so he always looks slick. He buys jewelry and fancy watches; he just financed a new Lexus to impress the ladies in Philly. And what reward does Mr. Local get for all his efforts? He gets crappy treatment by the sophisticated, self-centered ladies of Philly.

FOREIGN WOMEN TO THE RESCUE!

Mr. Global doesn’t worry about improving himself. He knows he isn’t the problem. Western women are the problem—and he understands that foreign women—like those from Brazil, Colombia, and Costa Rica—are the solution!

In his relationships with women from these countries, Mr. Global has found himself cherished and appreciated in ways no American girl has ever done. The foreign women in Mr. Global’s life cook him
delicious meals, rub his back when he’s tired, and compliment him on his looks (even though he knows his is less than average-looking).

What Mr. Global realizes that Mr. Local has never learned is that great economic forces as well as cultural forces such as feminism have created two vastly different environments across the world. One environment favors a generation of women who have lost their femininity and have placed their careers first. The other environment such as Latin American favors men, and also breeds women who are both more feminine and more old fashioned. They keep themselves fit and slim where Western women let themselves gain weight to the point of obesity.

This knowledge translates into power; something Mr. Global understands, but Mr. Local doesn’t grasp.

If they both stay the courses they’re pursuing, Mr. Global will have much more long-term success than Mr. Local. The girls of Philly just cannot measure up to the sexy Brazilian-raised ladies.
But if Mr. Global told Mr. Local about the Global Dating Revolution and persuaded Mr. Local to meet Brazilian ladies on-line or even try to meet some who live in Philadelphia, then things might just
look up for Mr. Local.

And even if there are no Brazilian ladies nearby, “Who cares?â€￾ Mr. Global would say to Mr. Local. “Come with me to Brazil!â€￾ And if Mr. Local had enough courage to go to Brazil, he would find more friendly, lovely, down-to-earth young ladies then he can handle! The only reason Mr. Local hasn’t booked his flight already is that no one has told him the secret!

Unfortunately, what Mr. Local doesn’t know is keeping him stuck in Philly where he dates overweight, feminist-minded women who treat him poorly. But, amazingly, since he has no point of reference, he is somewhat satisfied with his “success.â€￾

Nonetheless, Mr. Local seems to sense that there could be more for him. He continues to buys books that tell him “How to Become an Alpha Maleâ€￾ or “How to Seduce Women,â€￾ hoping to find “the right touch and approach to have success with attractive women.â€￾ When he finds himself being rejected by these scarce attractive women in Philadelphia, he continues with the “blame game,â€￾ acting as if it’s his own fault that his romantic life isn’t more fulfilling. What he doesn’t realize is that many of the American women he approaches have lost all sense of the word “femininityâ€￾ and “family-orientated valuesâ€￾. And he keeps pointing the finger at himself.

Mr. Global’s got it figured out. He knows to point the finger at the that handicaps that throw the odds against him, but he doesn’t try to fight it. No, he just continues to date attractive, foreign women.
When he goes to Brazil, he dates scores of beautiful, young Brazilian ladies—without even breaking a sweat! When he’s back in the United States, he stays in touch with these lovely women via the internet. Sometimes he gets lucky and a foreign lady comes to visit him!

Interestingly enough, Mr. Global is actually much less attractive than Mr. Local. For instance, Mr. Local has better social skills than Mr. Global. He is more charming, confident, witty, and outgoing. He is better looking and more muscular than Mr. Global.

But Mr. Local is also lonelier than Mr. Global. What should be so easy—a good-looking single man finding compatible, pleasant, pretty women—has become so hard. While Mr. Global, without taking much trouble at all, is having the time of his life with beautiful, charming women that try to please him!

The simple reason for this dichotomy is that Mr. Global has taken a global approach and travels and dates foreign women while Mr. Local dates only local American women. And this makes—literally—
all the difference in the world.

It’s tough to see nice guys like Mr. Local spinning their wheels in the Philadelphia mud. I know how it feels, because I once was Mr. Local, myself. Today, though, I’m Mr. Global—and I enjoy myself like
never before. The only difference between “thenâ€￾ and “nowâ€￾ is that now I use the environment to blow its mighty winds in my favor!

Like Mr. Global, I say, “Join me!â€￾ There is no reason you can’t do exactly what I’ve done. Once you learn the reasons for the differences between the pro-male regions and rest of the world
and the women that are raised in each in region, you can finally
stop blaming yourself and join in on the fun!
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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Postby zzzz » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:56 pm

I'm not sure I agree with some of the stuff in the second part. He seems to go out of his way to make people who go abroad into "losers" who don't try to improve themselves since there is no need. I improve myself for myself, not just others. Those things do matter less in certain countries but you will see guys who have game back in the States there too since they've learned how much easier it really is.

At the end of the day is it just a question of economics?
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Postby tradcom » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:43 am

As I said in this topic, this is no longer all that true for younger people.

Moreover, even if you want to use GDP, you should at least use recent data and adjust it for PPP, like they did here.
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Postby The_Adventurer » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:38 am

ZZZZ, in his example, I don't think Mr. Local was improving himself for himself. I don't think Mr. Local wanted a Lexus or a Rolex. He felt he had to do and have these things. Improving yourself for yourself is exactly what you should do. Be what you want and not what some woman or the TV tells you to be.

It's not just economics. It's economics and culture, or perhaps a culture generated by economics. I've seen local guys with nothing, who live in a shack with no water or electric have hot young girlfriends or wives in the Philippines. Those girls easily look good enough to bag any "rich" foreigner. Why don't they? There's not enough guys to go around no matter how you look at it.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
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Postby Rock » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:31 am

theyoungagegroup wrote:As I said in this topic, this is no longer all that true for younger people.

Moreover, even if you want to use GDP, you should at least use recent data and adjust it for PPP, like they did here.


I beg to differ. An average looking younger guy from the States who has the financial means to travel long term can experience dating paradise in many places, even in 2010. Depending on his looks, style, and affinity for picking-up foreign languages as well as his personal taste in women, here are a few places he might like:

1. Brazil: Learn some Porto and the approach proactively in clubs and public places. If you want a playboy lifestyle, you will get it. If you want a hot girlfriend, you will find her. Even older guys get lucky from time to time. I don't agree with djformoney that foreign guys only get darker, poorer, and/or less attractive girls. If my eyes haven't deceived me, the ones who localize a bit do fantastic.

2. Colombia: Spanish is so easy for English speakers that after 2-3 months in country, you will pick-up a lot automatically. Even easier to get dates than Brazil. Some areas have been spoiled by the influx of gringo bride seekers. But if you distance yourself from this set and localize to a degree, you can easily find a hot girl friend.

3. Thailand: If you present yourself well and perhaps get involved with one of the better unis (Bangkok U, Chula, Tamasek), perhaps as some kind of student, and hang out in at chic clubs and areas where the young set goes, you will make lots of friends and have plenty of choices to land a cute/attractive/hot girl friend or else date around like a playboy. I don't agree with Lad that Thais categorically hate all non-Asian foreigners. Its just so easy to get associated with the typical foreign scum that frequent Thailand so you have to put in special efforts to separate yourself from that crowd. Being well dressed (by standards of young locals), clean, preppy, and young will help. If you are good looking by their standards, even better. And best not to be seen associating with the types of Thais who represent the bar industry and lower classes.

4. China: Enormous country so dynamics will vary depending on where you go. Some girls there will not consider dating a foreigner. But guess what, many others are very curious and would like to try. If you can at least look like someone who has a future, you will attract a lot of attention from females. If you pick-up conversational Mandarin, you potential pool will expand enormously. It will be easy for you to date cute girls in many parts. 99% of the girls you see will not be fat. But if you're into the more voluptuous Brazilian look, you might be disappointed here.

5. Taiwan: I've said plenty about this country. You will do great as a young person if you can just be a bit pro-active. And if you are looking for a more serious relationship or marriage, Taiwan is much lower risk than China IMO. A lot of Taiwan women treat their men extremely well.

6. Philippines: Don't bother now. Wait till you get old. IMO, there are much better looking and sexier women in the countries mentioned above. And with Filipinas, I suspect a man's value is less connected with his youth and attractiveness and has more to do with the security (including money) he brings to the table. This is not a place which will give you strong leverage on your youth.

There are many others, the list above is just a few examples. So stop analyzing why going abroad won't work for the younger generation or how per capita GDP/ per capital PPP GDP doesn't make a difference. Just try it with a completely open mind. You will see how wrong your theory is.
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Postby djfourmoney » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:42 pm

Rock wrote:
theyoungagegroup wrote:As I said in this topic, this is no longer all that true for younger people.

Moreover, even if you want to use GDP, you should at least use recent data and adjust it for PPP, like they did here.


I beg to differ. An average looking younger guy from the States who has the financial means to travel long term can experience dating paradise in many places, even in 2010. Depending on his looks, style, and affinity for picking-up foreign languages as well as his personal taste in women, here are a few places he might like:

1. Brazil: Learn some Porto and the approach proactively in clubs and public places. If you want a playboy lifestyle, you will get it. If you want a hot girlfriend, you will find her. Even older guys get lucky from time to time. I don't agree with djformoney that foreign guys only get darker, poorer, and/or less attractive girls. If my eyes haven't deceived me, the ones who localize a bit do fantastic.

2. Colombia: Spanish is so easy for English speakers that after 2-3 months in country, you will pick-up a lot automatically. Even easier to get dates than Brazil. Some areas have been spoiled by the influx of gringo bride seekers. But if you distance yourself from this set and localize to a degree, you can easily find a hot girl friend.

3. Thailand: If you present yourself well and perhaps get involved with one of the better unis (Bangkok U, Chula, Tamasek), perhaps as some kind of student, and hang out in at chic clubs and areas where the young set goes, you will make lots of friends and have plenty of choices to land a cute/attractive/hot girl friend or else date around like a playboy. I don't agree with Lad that Thais categorically hate all non-Asian foreigners. Its just so easy to get associated with the typical foreign scum that frequent Thailand so you have to put in special efforts to separate yourself from that crowd. Being well dressed (by standards of young locals), clean, preppy, and young will help. If you are good looking by their standards, even better. And best not to be seen associating with the types of Thais who represent the bar industry and lower classes.

4. China: Enormous country so dynamics will vary depending on where you go. Some girls there will not consider dating a foreigner. But guess what, many others are very curious and would like to try. If you can at least look like someone who has a future, you will attract a lot of attention from females. If you pick-up conversational Mandarin, you potential pool will expand enormously. It will be easy for you to date cute girls in many parts. 99% of the girls you see will not be fat. But if you're into the more voluptuous Brazilian look, you might be disappointed here.

5. Taiwan: I've said plenty about this country. You will do great as a young person if you can just be a bit pro-active. And if you are looking for a more serious relationship or marriage, Taiwan is much lower risk than China IMO. A lot of Taiwan women treat their men extremely well.

6. Philippines: Don't bother now. Wait till you get old. IMO, there are much better looking and sexier women in the countries mentioned above. And with Filipinas, I suspect a man's value is less connected with his youth and attractiveness and has more to do with the security (including money) he brings to the table. This is not a place which will give you strong leverage on your youth.

There are many others, the list above is just a few examples. So stop analyzing why going abroad won't work for the younger generation or how per capita GDP/ per capital PPP GDP doesn't make a difference. Just try it with a completely open mind. You will see how wrong your theory is.


Ah I was mentioned...lol

Porto is VASTLY important in Brazil that can't be understated. The majority of women DO NOT SPEAK ANY ENGLISH or very BROKEN ENGLISH. I will agree with you there. But I'd say in Sao Paulo where there is more European Blood flowing and the women are more "White" there is likely still a stigma attached to Black Men based on their knowledge of their countries history.

Of course Xuxa dated Pele for awhile.... You can't get much "Whiter" than she is in Brazil.

I still stand by my statements about Colombia however, just go to the AFA site and look at some of the pictures from those events. Not always the highest quality brothers either, but I have seen a few that shouldn't have any trouble pulling at home.

I would agree with De La Cruz on most of his points. If I wanted to spend time pulling 40somethings all day then I could. There value has gone down and they know it, so they'll date me, f**k me, cook, clean, all sorts of shit to keep me around, been there done that.

My desire is to have a wife and children, so that means moving South or Eastward. Because of mu fondness for Caucasian women, I have looked at FSU. I'm encouraged by a few people including Mark's friend Law that I can pull. Of course having visited before, but still in America mode I really didn't try to pull during my three days (really 2.5) in town.

Colombia has been hit pretty hard by the MOB Industry, I agree. I'd say that likely doesn't matter however. Gold Diggers/Green Card seekers can be easily avoided anyway and I have seen some smoking hot Colombians on the I Love Latins You Tube Page. I'm not totally saying Brothers can't get good looking women, I'm just saying they don't seem to be getting them, better men than me I suppose.

http://www.loveme.com/tour/photos/Barranquilla-July-2010/pages/latin-women-barranquilla-colombia-0868.htm

I'm just always wondering if a girl that looked like this -

Image

Would be interested in Black Man, that's what I can't confirm, without going of course.
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Postby Repatriate » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:43 pm

Rock wrote:3. Thailand: If you present yourself well and perhaps get involved with one of the better unis (Bangkok U, Chula, Tamasek), perhaps as some kind of student, and hang out in at chic clubs and areas where the young set goes, you will make lots of friends and have plenty of choices to land a cute/attractive/hot girl friend or else date around like a playboy. I don't agree with Lad that Thais categorically hate all non-Asian foreigners. Its just so easy to get associated with the typical foreign scum that frequent Thailand so you have to put in special efforts to separate yourself from that crowd. Being well dressed (by standards of young locals), clean, preppy, and young will help. If you are good looking by their standards, even better. And best not to be seen associating with the types of Thais who represent the bar industry and lower classes.

I think you mean Thammassat. But anyways I kind of agree with you but Thailand requires a big language skill investment if you want to date top tier attractive girls. A lot of the cute Thai women don't speak English at all. I avoid the ones that do like the plague unless they come vetted by Thai friends. However, there is a caveat in that foreign guys are still limited by a certain pool of women who are open minded to date foreigners to begin with. It's not as large as you perceive it to be. A lot of girls dating foreigners now have dated them before..it's kind of the same "market" so to speak.
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Postby djfourmoney » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:55 pm

Repatriate wrote:
Rock wrote:3. Thailand: If you present yourself well and perhaps get involved with one of the better unis (Bangkok U, Chula, Tamasek), perhaps as some kind of student, and hang out in at chic clubs and areas where the young set goes, you will make lots of friends and have plenty of choices to land a cute/attractive/hot girl friend or else date around like a playboy. I don't agree with Lad that Thais categorically hate all non-Asian foreigners. Its just so easy to get associated with the typical foreign scum that frequent Thailand so you have to put in special efforts to separate yourself from that crowd. Being well dressed (by standards of young locals), clean, preppy, and young will help. If you are good looking by their standards, even better. And best not to be seen associating with the types of Thais who represent the bar industry and lower classes.

I think you mean Thammassat. But anyways I kind of agree with you but Thailand requires a big language skill investment if you want to date top tier attractive girls. A lot of the cute Thai women don't speak English at all. I avoid the ones that do like the plague unless they come vetted by Thai friends. However, there is a caveat in that foreign guys are still limited by a certain pool of women who are open minded to date foreigners to begin with. It's not as large as you perceive it to be. A lot of girls dating foreigners now have dated them before..it's kind of the same "market" so to speak.


That's any country though, there's going to be a certain amount of Nationalism anyplace you go. Not every girl wants to be involved with a foreigner for several reasons including he doesn't look like the locals and that's what she's attracted too. A woman interested in foreigner in a place like Thailand with a very well developed P4P culture, English Speaking Women vetting is likely more important than say Colombia or Ukraine which all have P4P as well, but pretty much confined to the largest cities. For example Medellin is still largely for locals when it comes to P4P, more Americans and Europeans for sure then a few years ago but still a trickle compared to Bogota which has been assaulted by the Monger P4P crowd and the MOB Industry. That's why they are hitting lesser known areas now, along with Peru.
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Postby Rock » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:38 pm

djfourmoney wrote: Ah I was mentioned...lol

Porto is VASTLY important in Brazil that can't be understated. The majority of women DO NOT SPEAK ANY ENGLISH or very BROKEN ENGLISH. I will agree with you there. But I'd say in Sao Paulo where there is more European Blood flowing and the women are more "White" there is likely still a stigma attached to Black Men based on their knowledge of their countries history.

Of course Xuxa dated Pele for awhile.... You can't get much "Whiter" than she is in Brazil.

I still stand by my statements about Colombia however, just go to the AFA site and look at some of the pictures from those events. Not always the highest quality brothers either, but I have seen a few that shouldn't have any trouble pulling at home.

I would agree with De La Cruz on most of his points. If I wanted to spend time pulling 40somethings all day then I could. There value has gone down and they know it, so they'll date me, f**k me, cook, clean, all sorts of shit to keep me around, been there done that.

My desire is to have a wife and children, so that means moving South or Eastward. Because of mu fondness for Caucasian women, I have looked at FSU. I'm encouraged by a few people including Mark's friend Law that I can pull. Of course having visited before, but still in America mode I really didn't try to pull during my three days (really 2.5) in town.

Colombia has been hit pretty hard by the MOB Industry, I agree. I'd say that likely doesn't matter however. Gold Diggers/Green Card seekers can be easily avoided anyway and I have seen some smoking hot Colombians on the I Love Latins You Tube Page. I'm not totally saying Brothers can't get good looking women, I'm just saying they don't seem to be getting them, better men than me I suppose.


I'm just always wondering if a girl that looked like this -
(Photo deleted to save space)

Would be interested in Black Man, that's what I can't confirm, without going of course.


1. Generally, Brazil gets whiter as you go south, especially starting after Rio and Sao Paulo. If you combine the bottom 3 states, which include Porto Alegre and Florianopolois, Caucasians make up about 80% of the population, not much different from Argentina to the immediate south. Rio and Sao Paulo are the dominant, first tier cosmopolitan cities which attract people from all over and act as melting pots between different colors. Sao Paulo, a bit south of Rio, is probably a tad more white on average and also has a substantial Japanese Brazilian population thrown into the mix. In in both megalopolises, you can find plenty of girls in any shape, size, or color - a true smorgasbord.

2. I think race relations in Brazil are much more complex than in the US. Its more of a class structured society. Is there a correlation between class and apparent race? Most definitely but its far from absolute. As I mentioned, both mega-cities look like melting pots. That means a lot of racial mixing happens - combining descendants of Africa, Germany/Portugal/Italy, and Indians make for some amazing results. And there is also a strong hedonistic component which causes a lot of people to work-out, get tanned, and enjoy showing-off their bodies. Girls with big asses are proud of the fact and the target of much male attention, similar to girls with big tits in the States. The difference is, Brasilieras generally don't hate men.

3. I actually think a black American might have a higher sexual market value in Brazil than Colombia. A lot of the whiter girls I met in Colombia told me they would prefer not to date a black. There seems to be less mixing there. In Brazil, some of the mixed girls told me they preferred black guys and in the mall, I often saw mixed couples - sometimes blacker guy/whiter girl, sometimes the other way around. Now when I asked girls in both places about Chinese and Asians, they acted like those people came from a different planet. Brazilians seem more open minded and I'm sure many would dig a Brasicliero Chinese if he looked OK. But in Colombia, the only image people had were from Chinese restaurants, mainly managed by poor looking immigrants from China.

4. Since you haven't made a lot of headway in FSU, perhaps you should consider Rio/Sao Paulo/southern Brazil. There's a big variety and you probably get more of an age handicap there than in Eastern Europe. Southern Brazil has lower crime rates than the rest of the country I believe too.

5. According to my taste, Brazil probably has more stunners than Colombia. And Brazilian girls are definitely taller on average too. You can skim through photos on Latin Euro - Colombia section and Brazil section to compare relative looks, styles, and body types.
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Postby ladislav » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:10 pm

I think you mean Thammassat. But anyways I kind of agree with you but Thailand requires a big language skill investment if you want to date top tier attractive girls. A lot of the cute Thai women don't speak English at all. I avoid the ones that do like the plague unless they come vetted by Thai friends. However, there is a caveat in that foreign guys are still limited by a certain pool of women who are open minded to date foreigners to begin with. It's not as large as you perceive it to be. A lot of girls dating foreigners now have dated them before..it's kind of the same "market" so to speak.


There are foreigners and there are foreigners. I would say that middle class Thai dating preferences go like this:

1) Their own people
2) Various Orientals- particularly various overseas Chinese.
3) Other Malay- looking people. Must have money.
4) European/ American Caucasians.
5) Arabs/Iranians, etc.
6) Indians/Pakistanis
7) Blacks- almost never.

"Citizenship" in Thailand is not really important, so being a 'foreigner' is not an issue. Being someone who belongs to various categories described above whether they are culturally similar or speak the language or understand the culture may matter.

Also, the non ethnc Thai citizens such as the Khmers from Buriram or Surin are wonderful and that would be the best place to get dates. I would stay away from Bangkok period. I was in Buriram with local girl, no one gave a dirty look, all people were super wonderful and I felt completely accepted. They had a black guy living among them and he was treated as one of them. Most of Isaan is a different world altogether.

But still, in my very personal opinion, unless you are Oriental looking, Thailand is just not worth the investment of your time.

We have to be careful when we use the word 'foreigner'. Some foreigners are more foreign than others as far as the locals are concerned.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
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Postby djfourmoney » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:01 pm

Rock wrote:
djfourmoney wrote: Ah I was mentioned...lol

Porto is VASTLY important in Brazil that can't be understated. The majority of women DO NOT SPEAK ANY ENGLISH or very BROKEN ENGLISH. I will agree with you there. But I'd say in Sao Paulo where there is more European Blood flowing and the women are more "White" there is likely still a stigma attached to Black Men based on their knowledge of their countries history.

Of course Xuxa dated Pele for awhile.... You can't get much "Whiter" than she is in Brazil.

I still stand by my statements about Colombia however, just go to the AFA site and look at some of the pictures from those events. Not always the highest quality brothers either, but I have seen a few that shouldn't have any trouble pulling at home.

I would agree with De La Cruz on most of his points. If I wanted to spend time pulling 40somethings all day then I could. There value has gone down and they know it, so they'll date me, f**k me, cook, clean, all sorts of shit to keep me around, been there done that.

My desire is to have a wife and children, so that means moving South or Eastward. Because of mu fondness for Caucasian women, I have looked at FSU. I'm encouraged by a few people including Mark's friend Law that I can pull. Of course having visited before, but still in America mode I really didn't try to pull during my three days (really 2.5) in town.

Colombia has been hit pretty hard by the MOB Industry, I agree. I'd say that likely doesn't matter however. Gold Diggers/Green Card seekers can be easily avoided anyway and I have seen some smoking hot Colombians on the I Love Latins You Tube Page. I'm not totally saying Brothers can't get good looking women, I'm just saying they don't seem to be getting them, better men than me I suppose.


I'm just always wondering if a girl that looked like this -
(Photo deleted to save space)

Would be interested in Black Man, that's what I can't confirm, without going of course.


1. Generally, Brazil gets whiter as you go south, especially starting after Rio and Sao Paulo. If you combine the bottom 3 states, which include Porto Alegre and Florianopolois, Caucasians make up about 80% of the population, not much different from Argentina to the immediate south. Rio and Sao Paulo are the dominant, first tier cosmopolitan cities which attract people from all over and act as melting pots between different colors. Sao Paulo, a bit south of Rio, is probably a tad more white on average and also has a substantial Japanese Brazilian population thrown into the mix. In in both megalopolises, you can find plenty of girls in any shape, size, or color - a true smorgasbord.

2. I think race relations in Brazil are much more complex than in the US. Its more of a class structured society. Is there a correlation between class and apparent race? Most definitely but its far from absolute. As I mentioned, both mega-cities look like melting pots. That means a lot of racial mixing happens - combining descendants of Africa, Germany/Portugal/Italy, and Indians make for some amazing results. And there is also a strong hedonistic component which causes a lot of people to work-out, get tanned, and enjoy showing-off their bodies. Girls with big asses are proud of the fact and the target of much male attention, similar to girls with big tits in the States. The difference is, Brasilieras generally don't hate men.

3. I actually think a black American might have a higher sexual market value in Brazil than Colombia. A lot of the whiter girls I met in Colombia told me they would prefer not to date a black. There seems to be less mixing there. In Brazil, some of the mixed girls told me they preferred black guys and in the mall, I often saw mixed couples - sometimes blacker guy/whiter girl, sometimes the other way around. Now when I asked girls in both places about Chinese and Asians, they acted like those people came from a different planet. Brazilians seem more open minded and I'm sure many would dig a Brasicliero Chinese if he looked OK. But in Colombia, the only image people had were from Chinese restaurants, mainly managed by poor looking immigrants from China.

4. Since you haven't made a lot of headway in FSU, perhaps you should consider Rio/Sao Paulo/southern Brazil. There's a big variety and you probably get more of an age handicap there than in Eastern Europe. Southern Brazil has lower crime rates than the rest of the country I believe too.

5. According to my taste, Brazil probably has more stunners than Colombia. And Brazilian girls are definitely taller on average too. You can skim through photos on Latin Euro - Colombia section and Brazil section to compare relative looks, styles, and body types.


Ric-Rock!

1) 100% Agree, I want to go SO BADLY. Somebody on ISG called Curitiba the land of big titty white Brazilians. The World Touring Car Championship kicks off its season in Curitiba all the more reason to go.

2) I agree as well that its more of a Social-Economic Status thing in Brazil. That's what I basically mean. Xuxa despite being very White with Light Eyes and Blond hair grew up Poor. She had friends of various colors as a child, so she saw no problem with dating Pele and other Black Brazilians. For Gen X and Gen Y Brazilians however the darker the skin usually means the poorer you are. Now if they know your American, they might separate you from the flock of locals. I would say this is likely the case in the places where they don't see very many Westerners. A majority of people go to Rio and Sao Paulo. As I understand it Porto Alegre has some serious hot women.

They have not been taught to hate men (yet) which is refreshing of course. These types of movements are not wild fire, they are like burning embers. At my age and my time table, there will be no sociological shift that will effect my quest.

3) That's the feeling I get. Despite there being Afro-Colombians, there's still a social stigma attached to being Black in Colombia. This can be seen in many forms of western media including No Reservations on Travel Channel. There was also a debate with Soledad O'Brien with Mark Thompson on his show on Sirius-XM where she talked about the racism in Latin America but focused on Colombia. O'Brien is Afro-Cuban actually and was made fun of as a child since she's "High Yellow". Of course that came from African-Americans which is the legacy of Slavery, often light skinned female slaves were targeted by Slave Owners and we all know the drill.

4) Ah but my headway is limited by ME and nothing else. I made a short trip to Ukraine on a whim. I got the drawers (if I could find the video I'd post it on Xtube) but upon closer inspection I know I can a) get younger (she was 34 at the time), b)better looking (I deleted her pictures from my digital camera, flash/sunlight blocked detail with web cams) and c) without child (Oxanna was 2 at the time).

I've been too cautious to buy into the hype and have tried to find as much information as possible. On RU Adventures this is very much promoted as a "If you have to ask you can't afford it" kind of thing which totally offends me. Ed (Get A Russian Wife) and another poster who didn't use a agency and did it all DIY have bought said this can be done on a budget. So while I'm broke, I'm trying to figure out how to best spend my money on this adventure and reading, reading and reading more.

This subject is very taboo in our culture as I'm sure you know. Its not like there's a raft of books to check out at the Library and most people out of the Millions since the fall of the wall that have married FSU women like to keep to themselves and silent. They know there's a social stigma attached to their relationships so they try to sweep it under the rug.

This means there's no network of people that are willing to related their stories and even fewer Black Men. Not that our needs are unique, we know what Anglo Saxon culture has spread its propaganda about race and race relations.

Now having said all that, I have been contacted off and on by interested ladies, so I know its doable. I just need the money to do it again. I have finally worked out a plan that will likely work but I need money to make it work, plane trips are not free.

I want to go to South America however, as much as I like thin runaway model types typically found in FSU, I am a Black Man and I do like a nice, round, juicy b***y which is vastly easier to find in South America, especially Brazil where Bunda is celebrated. I find it difficult to find women online in Brazil. I know language is a huge barrier and Latin Cupids is one site that I have found useful. ISG has this weird movement to hide a woman pictures. Some because some ISG lurkers have showing women they are featured on the web site. I think this is a typical Mangina Western Culture tactic. Trying to appear to the woman in question he is not like those guys on ISG, which is nonsense. He's trying to curry favor. Of course Escort sites are plentiful and there plenty of examples of attractive Brazilian women on You Tube. I don't think finding a good looking woman in Brazil would be the issue, its speaking enough Porto or finding a woman that does speak English, which they are out there.

Thanks for the input Rock
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Postby Repatriate » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:47 pm

ladislav wrote:There are foreigners and there are foreigners. I would say that middle class Thai dating preferences go like this:

1) Their own people
2) Various Orientals- particularly various overseas Chinese.
3) Other Malay- looking people. Must have money.
4) European/ American Caucasians.
5) Arabs/Iranians, etc.
6) Indians/Pakistanis
7) Blacks- almost never.

I'd say you're generally right but there are Thai girls who do fall into extremes. People's preferences are not always set in stone. When you say Malay looking people I think they are lower on the preference totem in general. Thais aren't big fans of Malaysians, Cambodians, Indonesians, etc.. I do know a regular but good looking Filipino guy who was consistently pulling attractive Thai women who had more money than him though. I'd say it's more of an aberration if it happens that way.

I get the impression that the different groups you listed above hang out with separate social crowds entirely though. I have hung out with "white" western expats before and the girls they are with are nearly an entirely different background than what my thai-american/thai friends hang out with. Most of the ones with western expats are most definitely from Isaan but the bar girl stereotype is only true about half of the time. The younger western men are usually dating younger lower/lower middle class isaan girls who go to middle tier universities like Bangkok U., Dusit, etc..

The higher up you go on that girl chain and it becomes overseas born Thai guys (ie. Thai-Americans, Thai-Brits) and upper class Thais dating models and such. I try like hell to fit into this category but I admit my thai language skills still aren't up to par yet to pull it off :lol:
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Postby Repatriate » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:56 pm

Rock wrote:
3. I actually think a black American might have a higher sexual market value in Brazil than Colombia. A lot of the whiter girls I met in Colombia told me they would prefer not to date a black. There seems to be less mixing there. In Brazil, some of the mixed girls told me they preferred black guys and in the mall, I often saw mixed couples - sometimes blacker guy/whiter girl, sometimes the other way around. Now when I asked girls in both places about Chinese and Asians, they acted like those people came from a different planet. Brazilians seem more open minded and I'm sure many would dig a Brasicliero Chinese if he looked OK. But in Colombia, the only image people had were from Chinese restaurants, mainly managed by poor looking immigrants from China.

Just out of curiosity what was your impression Brazilian Japanese there? They are a highly successful "minority" in Brazil and i'm surprised to hear Brazilians would consider asians as from another planet. Then again i'm guessing the Sao Paulo Japanese didn't do that much mixing into the diaspora until fairly recently.
Then again I suppose that's necessarily true otherwise we wouldn't have this guy around http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida
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Postby Winston » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:40 am

Hi all,
I forgot to post the section the other day from Dan's book that describes the four advantages and disadvantages of the Upper Tiers vs. Lower Tiers, which mention immigrant male workers as a reason why there is a surplus of males in First World countries. Here it is.


Upper Tiers:

4 ENVIRONMENTAL HANDICAPS: THE FOUR WHAMMIES:

Obesity

Obesity results in a lower percentage of females with .7 waist-to-hip ratio. This decreases the number of attractive females in a population

Strong Male Competition

High income males have more money, and time to devote to things like the gym, learning how to play the guitar, going out, spending money in bars and clubs, etc. They can spend money on nice clothes, haircuts, cars, college education, dating books and bachelor pads. In short they can compete better for attractive women. Upper tiers also have a high percentage of male diversity due to immigration; This male diversity increases the competition.

Male Surplus

A gender imbalance arises due to internal and international immigration. Healthy economies and industrial sectors bring in more males in search of employment. Labor demands dictate the severity.

Aging Talent

Pool In the upper tiers there are, in general, more old people then young people. Meaning most of the people you will encounter throughout the upper tiers will in general be older. For example, it’s a well known fact, that there is a large number of “baby boomersâ€￾ that are nearing retirement age in many upper tier nations. For example in many upper tier nations there are more women who are 35 then young women in their 20s. The upper tier nations have the oldest populations in the world and in many cases the young people that help keep the median age at bay are the immigrants that move to the upper tiers from the lower tiers (these immigrants are mostly male).

Lower Tiers:

4 PHYSICAL POWERS: THE FANTASTIC FOUR:

Great Talent Pool

High percentage of .7 waist-to-hip ratios (hourglass figures) in the female population due reasons we will later explain. Women in lower tiers also compete more aggressively against each other for the males, therefore they have more incentive to be in shape, slim, and sexy. In the lower tiers it’s generally more common to see gyms full of women.

Weak Competition

Lower tiers consist of the 65%-70% of the world population. They are also the lowest income earners in the world. Most males here are economically challenged. Males simply don’t have the economic resources to compete on the same scale as the guys in the upper tiers.

Female Surplus

In most of the lower tiers the female surplus is due to the mass emigration of males, who migrate to the upper tiers in order to work and send money back home or to give themselves more economic opportunities. When there are more women then men, the odds are in your favor.

Youthful Talent Pool

More young women in the population then older women. The lower tiers have had the
highest birth rates in the world for decades, making for a much younger and more vibrant population.

All four of these powers increase your odds greatly in meeting and dating attractive women!

Each of these elements of power varies from country to country, and even from city to city, but generally, all Lower Tier countries give men a vast advantage in the game of love. And here’s one place where guys have it all!
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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