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Upper vs. Lower tiers: Different dating markets for men

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Re: Upper vs. Lower tiers: Different dating markets for men

Postby Asp » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:50 am

Winston wrote:UPPER AND LOWER TIERS

Let’s break the world into two parts, favorable for guys and unfavorable for guys. The regions that are unfavorable we’ll call the “upper tiers,â€￾ while the favorable regions we’ll call the “lower tiers.â€￾
The countries included in the unfavorable “upper tierâ€￾ are the U.S.A., Canada, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and high income Asian and Pacific nations. In the image below, these countries are represented by dark blue. They account for only 30%-35% of the world’s population.
The numerous, more favorable, lower tier countries—all countries not in dark blue—account for approximately 65%-70% of the world’s population.

As you will see In the image below, the places around the world that are favorable to men vastly outnumber the places where the environment favors the females. For the sake of brevity, we can say
that the areas in dark blue favor women, while every other color region are places where the environment favors the men.


For similar reasons I had suspected the Human Development Index as an initial guide to how favourable countries might be as dating environments for men or women. It's become the official measure of who's developed and who's developing. Income is one of the things they take into account (they use Gross National Income (PPP)), but not just that, it also takes into account Education, and Health (as measured by life expectancy). A link to a Human Development map is here. There's practically no difference from your GDP map though, as the highest HDI tier which is dark blue (developed countries) virtually the same as your GDP map. Within countries, too, there can be great differences in HDI so possibly more favourable dating environments where HDI/GDP is lower, considering US states for instance, between which I've found noticeable differences where lower ranked states are more favourable.
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Postby Winston » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:52 am

I agree with Rock that Taiwanese/Chinese women are more refined and higher quality than most Filipinas.

But for some reason, Filipinas seem more compatible with the average American man. I'm not talking about having things in common. Something in their personality, behavior or vibe seems to complement the American male like two pieces of a puzzle that fit together nicely and smoothly.

Why is that? Maybe Ladislav can explain?

Sean, a guy I know who has been in Taipei for 10 years and dated both Taiwanese and Filipinas, said "Taiwanese girls are more refined. Filipinas are more fun."

I guess I would agree with that. But it depends on who you meet too.
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Postby Repatriate » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:39 am

The Phillipines is thoroughly colonized and was westernized through religion, language, and a tiered class system. Not to mention the most popular media in the Phillipines are American movies and pop culture. In Taiwan that stuff is popular too but they don't know follow it religiously or try to integrate parts of fake America into the mainstream culture..in the rest of Asia it's more of a fad.
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Postby Winston » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:39 am

Winston wrote:I agree with Rock that Taiwanese/Chinese women are more refined and higher quality than most Filipinas.

But for some reason, Filipinas seem more compatible with the average American man. I'm not talking about having things in common. Something in their personality, behavior or vibe seems to complement the American male like two pieces of a puzzle that fit together nicely and smoothly.

Why is that? Maybe Ladislav can explain?

Sean, a guy I know who has been in Taipei for 10 years and dated both Taiwanese and Filipinas, said "Taiwanese girls are more refined. Filipinas are more fun."

I guess I would agree with that. But it depends on who you meet too.


Btw, I forgot to mention something. The other day I talked on the phone to one of the Taiwanese girls me and Rock met in Taichung. After a while she asked me if the call was expensive for me since we talked for a while.

I'll have to say that that was refreshing, cause if I was talking to a Filipina on the phone for a long time, she would NEVER be concerned about whether the call was expensive for me. They are just never considerate about that kind of thing. It's as if they think money is unlimited and not ever an issue, or are just too dumb to care. Either way, to me it's kind of inconsiderate that they are never concerned about cost. For some reason, conserving resources never crosses their mind.

That's an example of one of the benefits of dealing with an "upper tier" girl I guess, the decency and consideration in their behavior.
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Postby Winston » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:45 am

Repatriate wrote:The Phillipines is thoroughly colonized and was westernized through religion, language, and a tiered class system. Not to mention the most popular media in the Phillipines are American movies and pop culture. In Taiwan that stuff is popular too but they don't know follow it religiously or try to integrate parts of fake America into the mainstream culture..in the rest of Asia it's more of a fad.


Isn't another reason why Filipinas are easier to get along with for Americans, that they are just very relaxed, easygoing and nonjudgmental, so that the American guy can pretty much do what he wants and they are cool with it? Filipinos hardly analyze things at all, so they don't look for little things to be bothered by or hung up on. Ignorance is bliss I guess?

Plus the Filipinas who seek Americans are usually poor and desperate too.
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Postby Rock » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:16 pm

Repatriate wrote:
Rock wrote:
3. I actually think a black American might have a higher sexual market value in Brazil than Colombia. A lot of the whiter girls I met in Colombia told me they would prefer not to date a black. There seems to be less mixing there. In Brazil, some of the mixed girls told me they preferred black guys and in the mall, I often saw mixed couples - sometimes blacker guy/whiter girl, sometimes the other way around. Now when I asked girls in both places about Chinese and Asians, they acted like those people came from a different planet. Brazilians seem more open minded and I'm sure many would dig a Brasicliero Chinese if he looked OK. But in Colombia, the only image people had were from Chinese restaurants, mainly managed by poor looking immigrants from China.

Just out of curiosity what was your impression Brazilian Japanese there? They are a highly successful "minority" in Brazil and i'm surprised to hear Brazilians would consider asians as from another planet. Then again i'm guessing the Sao Paulo Japanese didn't do that much mixing into the diaspora until fairly recently.
Then again I suppose that's necessarily true otherwise we wouldn't have this guy around http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida


Yes, I believe the Japanese diaspora in Brazil has been successful economically, perhaps most successful of all non-white immigrants. They started out as near slaves a century ago but gradually got clout with Japan's rise in the last quarter of the 20th Century. I would venture to say that more than half of young Brazilians today who can trace their roots to Japan have mixed blood. And even those with pure Japanese blood are actually not very Japanese at all. They look different (many times well tanned), move different, act different, and talk different. Some of them even have big bundas, lol. When I see them, my first impression is Brazilian with an exotic east Asian look.

I remember reading something in the paper a couple years ago about some of these Japanese Brazilians who had returned to Japan to take on blue color jobs as part of a government program. Well not surprisingly, most of them suffered massive culture shock and were not at all accepted by the community as repatriated Japanese. They were just considered another group of foreigners.

Now garden variety FOB Chinese are probably going to be looked at as weird people from another planet by most cariocas (Rio locals). In Rio, there is just a tiny smattering of Chinese people and very few of the Japanese descendants described above (most are in SP or other areas). I got to know a Taiwan family that runs a small Japanese restaurant in Rio just a block off the Copacabana beach. The parents had been there 25 years spoke accented not completely fluent Porto. They had a son who I never met but the daughter was quite outgoing and impressive - 18 at the time, hot with an exotic look, fluent in Porto, English, Mandarin, and Taiwanese, preparing to apply to Harvard and some other high powered schools. You can be sure she was popular with most Brazilians but that's cus she's hot from a relatively prosperous family. I do believe the parents' social circle was mainly other Chinese.

Anyway, I talked a lot with the parents. It sounds like the Chinese community is pretty small and they all cooperate to some extent. He told me about an FOB mainland Chinese girl who had been whoring herself out in Copacabana a couple years earlier. Now that sort of things is common for Brazilians and no big deal. Its legal too. But somehow, she got featured in some newspaper article which was spun into a moral criticism of Chinese in Brazil (very hypocritical). Of course Rio's Chinese community considered that an embarrassing loss of face. Some members took up a collection to which the father was happy to contribute and used it to pay a hit-man to take her out. He told me he never saw her again.

As for Colombia, Chinese and Asians seemed very rare, at least in Cali, Medellin, and Cartegena. Perhaps Bogota has a small community but I'm not sure. During my visits there, I think I only saw one Asian - a late 30s Singaporean who had lived in Brazil for 6 years as a diplomat and was looking for a Colombian bride (gotta wonder why he didn't find anything in Brazil). He ended-up getting engaged to a secretary at a marriage agency. But generally, when I asked girls their candid opinion about Asia and Chinese (after all, I was living in Asia), they would usually reply with something like 'no me gusta los chinos' or 'los chinos son feos, sucios, etc' and then laugh. A few of them knew Gong Li though and consider her attractive. You gotta realize, when people have rare exposure to a particular group, they usually revert to whatever the prevailing stereotypes happen to be. And in Colombia, those tend to be very old school. It would be interesting to see their reactions to a place like Pattaya.
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Postby Repatriate » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:21 pm

Winston wrote:I agree with Rock that Taiwanese/Chinese women are more refined and higher quality than most Filipinas.

I'd say this is pretty true about Thai women compared with Taiwanese/Chinese women too. Thai women can be cute/beautiful but frequently there's nothing going on upstairs in the head. The university educated girls are not very intellectual, motivated, or particularly smart.
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Postby Winston » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:14 pm

Repatriate wrote:
Winston wrote:I agree with Rock that Taiwanese/Chinese women are more refined and higher quality than most Filipinas.

I'd say this is pretty true about Thai women compared with Taiwanese/Chinese women too. Thai women can be cute/beautiful but frequently there's nothing going on upstairs in the head. The university educated girls are not very intellectual, motivated, or particularly smart.


Are Thai women as shameless as Filipinas too? Would they ever be concerned about how much you are spending or how much something costs if they aren't paying for it, as in my example above?

Russian women also have this shamelessness. No matter how much you spend or lose, they don't care and don't have the slightest feeling of guilt or concern for seeing a guy spend a ton of hard earned cash.

What makes people so different by ethnicity? Is it genetic or cultural? I know the politically correct crowd will say all differences are cultural and learned, but come on now. Biology does determine behavior. It's a fact.
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Postby Repatriate » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:24 pm

Winston wrote:[
Are Thai women as shameless as Filipinas too? Would they ever be concerned about how much you are spending or how much something costs if they aren't paying for it, as in my example above?

Russian women also have this shamelessness. No matter how much you spend or lose, they don't care and don't have the slightest feeling of guilt or concern for seeing a guy spend a ton of hard earned cash.

What makes people so different by ethnicity? Is it genetic or cultural? I know the politically correct crowd will say all differences are cultural and learned, but come on now. Biology does determine behavior. It's a fact.


Yes, Thais and Filipinos are definitely alike in this respect. If you let the women spend they will do it shamelessly but I think the difference is not all the girls are like this. The women can be very restrained in their behavior if they care about you, that's how you can tell most of the time what they are really like.

Thais also buy stuff just for "face" reasons. Like they'll spend all their money on a used Mercedes even though they can barely make the payments for the car while they live in a shitty apt or condo. The personal credit and loan industry in Thailand is a booming business. I'm surprised the banks here are even able to make a profit off these credit cards since the credit defaults must be really high. Thais are not what I would call "responsible" people when it comes to money or risky behavior.
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Postby Winston » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:52 pm

Maybe in Thailand they follow the US Fed system of creating money out of nothing, so the banks have nothing to lose from defaults?

Do most Thais know anything about Buddhism? Or even follow its philosophy? If not, why is Thailand called "A Buddhist Country"?

What do you do in Thailand? Do you have a business there? Do you teach English? Do you ever go to bars there?

Also, how much does it cost to extend your visa in Thailand? How does the tourist visa system work there?
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Postby Repatriate » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:04 pm

Winston wrote:Maybe in Thailand they follow the US Fed system of creating money out of nothing, so the banks have nothing to lose from defaults?

Do most Thais know anything about Buddhism? Or even follow its philosophy? If not, why is Thailand called "A Buddhist Country"?

They follow Buddhism and some really do believe in it but it's mixed in with their own cultural beliefs too. They believe in making merit to benefit their own prosperity etc..basically believing in religion for all the wrong reasons. I think their grasp of religious and moral principles is very shallow but that's not too different from a lot of other countries.
Do you ever go to bars there?

I don't go to the beer bars or go go joints anymore but I do occasionally go to nightclubs. I have pretty much made up my mind to avoid the nightlife scene in the future since i'm not a big fan of Thai style nightclubs with blaring techno/hip hop music and packed liquor tables. It's not all that easy to pick up girls in these places with limited thai skills unless you look like a total stud.
Also, how much does it cost to extend your visa in Thailand? How does the tourist visa system work there?

There's a comprehensive site that goes over all the visa stuff at www.thaivisa.com

I'm not going to go into other details on my personal life since that sort of stuff is important for the job I am in.
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Postby momopi » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:19 pm

Winston wrote:Maybe in Thailand they follow the US Fed system of creating money out of nothing, so the banks have nothing to lose from defaults?


There are no central banks that use full-reserve banking in any country today.

Historically speaking, the Chinese were the first to employ paper currency with non-full reserves about a thousand years ago, which caused inflation.

The first "flying cash" paper currency was printed during Tang China around 800 AD and it was fully backed. During Song Dynasty (960-1279) they started printing money without full-reserves.

Image
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Postby Rock » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:43 pm

Repatriate wrote:
Winston wrote:I agree with Rock that Taiwanese/Chinese women are more refined and higher quality than most Filipinas.

I'd say this is pretty true about Thai women compared with Taiwanese/Chinese women too. Thai women can be cute/beautiful but frequently there's nothing going on upstairs in the head. The university educated girls are not very intellectual, motivated, or particularly smart.


1. Perhaps you should separate Taiwanese from Chinese cus they're often visibly different. Of course I realize that Chinese from various parts of the mainland also tend to look different from each other to an extent. But with Taiwanese, you can often recognize them abroad even before they open their mouths. Young people here, esp. from biggest cities are more westernized. They tend to dress different and often have different body types. Many can easily pass for ABCs with a bit of adjustment to their clothes. And an increasing number of local people today speak decent to fluent American style English.

2. When Winston talks about 'higher quality', I'm not sure what he means. Classier Thais behave in a visibly refined manner, almost to the point of being theatrical. Taiwanese are rougher and more casual in this regard. But if he's referring to the ability and/or interest to engage in slightly deeper or or intellectual style conversations, Taiwanese and even many Chinese win hands down. Many Taiwanese are stimulating conversationalists IMO. I also find financial expectations of garden variety girls Taipei girls to be very modest. Girls I've dated generally don't expect fancy restaurants or shopping trips. Some will even treat you and buy you gifts a fair amount of the time. As for Thais, I must say, they seem to be a lot better than they used to be in this regard. Perhaps with economic development and increasing sophistication, they've figured out it can be more profitable in the long term to work more slowly and subtly?

3. Physically, I'm not sure if Thais are all that in spite of their reputation. Sure, you see large numbers of very cute or attractive girls there, even a lot of stunners, esp. in the hot spots of Bangkok. But the country has 55 million people and only one 1st tier city so its not really surprising that you would see an impressive concentration of beauties there. There's also a huge number of very plain and rough looking women throughout the country. And many of us realize now that there's a complex class system in place which extends to women's perceived beauty. Rule of thumb, lighter skin is more beautiful, darker skin is uglier. But some of the most beautiful girls I've seen are medium complexion girls from the south (a very different look from Issan stereotype), a look which some Thais appreciate too. And I've seen plenty of very average to plain looking or even ugly Thai Chinese in Bangkok too. Bangkok Bank headquarters has many employees who fit this description. Parts of Issan have people with part or even full Chinese blood. Then of course you've got the mixed blood beauties, hot looking transvestites/transsexuals, and plenty of attractive foreign girls which add exotic appeal to the mix. Compared to all that, Taiwan is downright boring. But if you like a place with hoards of cute to attractive ethnically Chinese girls and some stunners thrown in, all with a modest amount of westernization, it might be the place.
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Postby Repatriate » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:38 pm

Rock wrote:1. Perhaps you should separate Taiwanese from Chinese cus they're often visibly different. Of course I realize that Chinese from various parts of the mainland also tend to look different from each other to an extent. But with Taiwanese, you can often recognize them abroad even before they open their mouths. Young people here, esp. from biggest cities are more westernized. They tend to dress different and often have different body types. Many can easily pass for ABCs with a bit of adjustment to their clothes. And an increasing number of local people today speak decent to fluent American style English.

I'm a bit surprised you would say that some Taiwanese kids could pass as ABCs. They look very "fob" like to me even when they try to mimic western culture. There's just something entirely off with their mannerisms and socialization that hints that they aren't originally from the U.S. right away. I know that a lot of Taiwanese are painfully hip at times but there's just a certain way they present themselves that's obvious. There are a LOT of these recent arrivals in the LA area and they are easy to spot.

I can tell ABCs from native Taiwanese just from the way Taiwanese walk and even gesture. Not to mention ABC guys are just much more aggressive and assertive. ABC women are even more obvious to me. If they speak then it becomes 100% obvious just by some of the stuff they talk about. That may sound ridiculous but I guess i've been around enough ABCs to really separate the cultural and social quirks down to a science. :lol:

I consider myself pretty good at spotting and picking out certain ethnicities/nationalities in a crowd it's a behavioral thing lots of times.

2. When Winston talks about 'higher quality', I'm not sure what he means. Classier Thais behave in a visibly refined manner, almost to the point of being theatrical. Taiwanese are rougher and more casual in this regard. But if he's referring to the ability and/or interest to engage in slightly deeper or or intellectual style conversations, Taiwanese and even many Chinese win hands down.

I agree totally. Thais are all about "face" and outward appearances. Women and men both powder their faces, wear fancy clothes, and put on airs if they believe themselves to be in the "hi-so" crowd. This means they will blow money on trinkets, accessories, and expensive cars to impress other Thais but really everyone knows what the game is. The actual "rich" in Thailand make up a tiny sliver of the population even in Bangkok. This whole scene comes from watching tv shows and a finely tuned class hierarchy which fosters corruption, nepotism, and general all around selfish ill will within their society.

This kind of reflects in other areas such as professional pursuits or education. Everything is a show. Even the smarter students from well off families believe in collecting university certificates to pad their credentials to put on their wall in the job that most likely their family connections will provide. Ask them some questions about their field and they will stare at you blankly or give you very surface level answers on a topic. I used to date a girl who majored in Russian language & cultural studies who went to Thammassat. She didn't know a damn thing about writers like Tolstoy or Dostoevesky and could barely tell me anything about Russia or the language. She was fun to be around though. :lol:

3. Physically, I'm not sure if Thais are all that in spite of their reputation. Sure, you see large numbers of very cute or attractive girls there, even a lot of stunners, esp. in the hot spots of Bangkok. But the country has 55 million people and only one 1st tier city so its not really surprising that you would see an impressive concentration of beauties there.

Yes, i'd say this is also true but it depends on your type I suppose. Thais are generally short and slim with no butt and small breasts. However the stunners can be rather tall but with the same problems I mentioned before.
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Postby lovesong » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:18 am

Rock wrote:
Repatriate wrote:
Rock wrote:
Anyway, I talked a lot with the parents. It sounds like the Chinese community is pretty small and they all cooperate to some extent. He told me about an FOB mainland Chinese girl who had been whoring herself out in Copacabana a couple years earlier. Now that sort of things is common for Brazilians and no big deal. Its legal too. But somehow, she got featured in some newspaper article which was spun into a moral criticism of Chinese in Brazil (very hypocritical). Of course Rio's Chinese community considered that an embarrassing loss of face. Some members took up a collection to which the father was happy to contribute and used it to pay a hit-man to take her out. He told me he never saw her again.



I know this is an old thread but it contained some great tidbits of info in the very beginning. But after I read the quote above, I felt disgusted. So basically some morally weak Chinese families pay somebody to kill a poor country girl because of their perceived loss of face in the social mirror of Brazil. Despite this girl's obviously wrong choices, this girl was doing the best she could to deal with the cards that were dealt to her by life. She probably had a family back home in China living in an impoverished area and had little to no education since the majority of China's elite only give a f**k about themselves despite making fortunes from making cheap crap. f***ing retarded to put it bluntly. One day I hope they realize the consequences of the choice they made.


Hey listen,
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