Discuss dating, relationships and foreign women.
This thread is funny.
You don't have to read a best selling book to learn how to hold conversations with Filipinas. They are not looking for intellectual conversation or stimulating conversation even. They are looking for SINCERITY and NICENESS. They just expect to talk about simple things, like your feelings, your family, your view on love, etc. You gotta go down to their level. Once you're there, the topics become simple.
Maybe I should record one of my conversations with a typical Filipina to give you an example.
If there are gaps or nothing to talk about, just ask what she did today and build on that, like a good cold reader. Watch how Larry King interviews his guests. He doesn't ask intelligent questions. He just tries to get at the heart of what they are saying with simple questions.
Compliment and tease her a lot too. Tell her that her photo took your breath away and that she looks very sexy and exotic and makes you think of a distant tropical paradise. What girl doesn't like to hear that?
Basically, pretend like you're talking to a child (albeit one you want to date lol, but nevermind) or one with a child mentality. You don't hold intelligent conversation with a child do you? You talk about things at his level. Some people are naturally good at this and can fill the gaps with lots of random stuff. As long as they are willing to reciprocate, you should have no problem.
You got to BECOME INTERESTED in her world. Ask her lots of questions, then deeper ones to try to understand her. Then mix it up by flirting with her and teasing her in a lighthearted manner.
Example of a typical dialogue with a Filipina:
- What do your parents do?
"My dad is a factory worker and my mom is a housewife."
- Wow it must be hard work.
"Yes we earn very little money and never have enough."
- Well at least you have each other. Love and family are what's important.
"Yes, I love my family, and I love God. I wish I could help them."
- I understand. We all have struggles in life. That's the glory of it. You should be glad that you look so cute and lovely though.
"No I'm not that beautiful. There are many other girls more beautiful in the Philippines."
- Well to me you are beautiful. You take my breath away. Wow. You're so maganda!
::::giggle::::: "You are so bolero. (sweet talker) So when you come to Philippines?"
- I will try to take a vacation from work next month to come.
"I will be happy to meet you when you arrive."
- Me too.
See how easy that is? I could go on and on like that. Why can't you?
At some point, she will begin asking questions about you too. It's your choice at that point whether you want to tell her the truth about everything, white lies, or be cryptic or evasive. America is not the rosy place she imagines. Most expats don't get into that with them too much. I do though. You can explain to her with simple examples what America is like or what your life is like, etc. Don't worry about it. She is not that judgmental. As long as you are nice, sincere and easy to get along with and you have enough money to support you and her, she is happy.
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
That sounds great in theory, and I've been employing this strategy for a long time, but without much success. Whenever I put it into practice I end up coming across like an interogator or like I'm interviewing them for a job. And it tends to ruin the casual, spontaneous, flirty vibe that you want to have in these conversations.
I write down all my questions for them in advance, then go down the list. Then when they give me their invariably brief answers, I usually can't think of any good follow-up questions.
Talkative Filipinas? Are you serious??? Where? Cuz I haven't met any yet.
I do. I say a lot of the same things and same questions. But that only fills up the first
10 or 15 minutes of the first webchat. Then what do you talk about? Particularly if you're going to have 20 or more hours
worth of webchatting to do before you meet her in person.
And then, if you've blown your whole conversational load online, what are you going to have left to ask her when you meet
Ironically enough, I actually had an easier time talking to American girls back when I was on a local dating site about
8 years ago. Yes, you were much less likely to get responses from the girls you messaged. But when you did they were much
more likely to contribute to the conversation and take some of the weight off of you. You would have shared cultural
interests and local news stories, etc to talk about and the conversation would flow a lot more naturally.
I even ended up sleeping with a couple of the local American girls I met online. Sure, it was much harder to get their
interest in the first place, but once I had their interest I was virtually home-free.
But with these Filipina girls, getting them to take an active role in the conversation is like pulling teeth. They all know
how to say "Hi, how are you?" but very little beyond that. And I can only compliment their looks so much before it starts to
get old and corny.
"If there are gaps or nothing to talk about, just ask what she did today and build on that"
I do that every conversation. I also ask what they plan on doing that night, next day, weekend, etc. They just don't give
me anything to build on. Either that or I'm just bad at figuring out how to build on it.
"Maybe I should record one of my conversations with a typical Filipina to give you an example."
Yeah, I would love to hear that. Maybe I can get some ideas that way.
If you are not dealing with someone who needs to see game, you have a great opportunity to be natural, to be yourself and form bond that is healthy and strong.
Forget James Bond. That is just a fantasy movie and nobody in real lives lives or talks like that. Real life and people interactions are much more mundane actually. That's why you don't see what happens inbetween in James Bond movies. Because they would have to break the fantasy to show you that. You'd see James Bond trimming his toenails, scratching the itch on his arm, complaining to his friends about the girl and the politics in the office, doing wierd guy things etc.
It is too much to expect two people who have just met to be able to have an hour long conversation without actually doing anything. Why not schedule shorter times and say that you would like to take your time to get to know the other person. Relax a little. You've got many lifetimes to live . The abilty to enjoy each other's company comes with familiarity too. If you are feeling relaxed and comfortable with someone the conversation and time spent together will grow naturally. The quiet spaces won't feel awkward. After the glitz and glamor are gone this will be someone you are comfortable just being around.
Sometimes men do tend to think they relate to women and talk to them the way they relate to their guy friends. This is not true and if anyone is still harboring that illusion then get rid of it quickly. What's that thing, women need to speak 10,000 words, it doesn't matter that much what they are as long as they are sweet and pleasant. So you can't go looking for logic in the conversation. Even then there is only so much men and women can do together. You will notice that in every gathering eventually the men and women filter out and go into their own spaces. That can be useful to know. You don't have to expect so much and feel so much pressure.
Finally you do have to know the cultural wavelength you are on. If you are very protestant like, that is your natural temperament, then the catholic temperament with its emphasis on mystery, sacrifice, ritual, color, irrational passion may not suit you. Remember in the philipines they actually enact out the passion of the christ every year! Some dudes get nailed up to the cross. The oriental countries may be a better fit. So if you are not feeling a bond it may just be that you are culturally incompatible.
This is some advice to be savored. Some good insight. Somehow, I had a very protestant upbringing, but frankly, tended to find many catholic girls to be compatible with me. I married such a girl. We can talk for hours. I am away from home right now, and we talk every night. three hours tonight. It seemed like 20 minutes. We are not done yet, we are just "Pausing" till tomorrow. The "us" is a very safe place for each of us, so far ranging conversations flow naturally.
She knows I post here. I'm back in the USA for a couple of months, and she is in Mindanao. She will read this post today. She tolerates my warped humor, (Yes, she got the spiel about the mistress, fortunately for me!) so I will say in front of all of you that
she is my morning sun. I am lucky to have her, and she is as always, a blessing in my life. There are all kinds of filipinas, but when you find a good one, there is nothing better on this planet.
For starters, do spend time learning something about Filipinos and the Philippines. It will help out in conversations considerably. ultimately, nothing will replace your own insight. What advice you might find here is just shards to be collected. You have to put it together yourself.
Yes, of course. I know James Bond is fantasy. I only bring it up because I see so many real life hook-ups in the US that seem just as mysterious. I'll see a guy meet a hot girl. I see them talk and hang out a little bit. He seems kinda lame and uninteresting, not particularly funny or exciting when I'm talking to him. But then, next thing I know, he's hooked up with the girl. WTF??? How the hell did he do that? What the hell did he say/do that convinced her he was worth f***ing? After all, he seemed to be a charmless bore whenever I was around him. Did he magically turn on some sort of James Bond charm with her when I wasn't looking?
It's very frustrating.
So while, yes, most of us on this board find US girls impossible to impress, there are clearly a whole lot of average working-class guys who don't seem to have any problem getting attractive American girls. What is their secret?
He probably did not "convince" the girl with words. The 7%-38%-55% rule says that in human/interpersonal communications, 7% is in words, 38% is in how you say it (tone/presentation), and 55% is nonverbal (body language). In some cases the nonverbal communication in body language and facial communication can be as high as 80%.
Look in a mirror and pretend that you're chatting with a girl. What are you saying to her with your face, body posture, eyes, hair, teeth, clothing, and shoes? Check your facial symmetry, body ratio, double-chin, etc. Not all women will be attracted to the same characteristics.
Personally, I suck at conversation (compared to several of my friends who can easily captivate women), so I learned to talk about ankimo and sashimi.
Last edited by momopi on Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, it all depends what you are looking for, hook up or a partner, family or both or whatever.
For guys if you want to only hook up then all that stuff about game, pua is what you need to be focussed on. Chances are, if she is the hookup kind, the girl has already decided if you are hook up material based on some amalgam of your age, your looks, your race. If you pass that filter, only then does all the business about body language, saying the right things comes into play.
It is said that romantic love is one of the most easily taken up forms of narcisissm. After all you are primarily focussed on yourself and your feelings as is the girl you are hooking up with. Neither has any real care for the other.
Chances are you are not going to find hook up in conservative catholic countries unless you meet the bar girls.
You can certainly try for both, hook up and see if the person you hooked up is good relationship material or something like that. What are the chances that a girl who has hooked up many times is going to turn into a loving kind wife? But hey you can try. Good luck.
Oddly enough, given this forum many of the concerns seem to be how to hookup and get game while remaining searching forever. But whatever float your boat.
Men are not immune to the thrill of hookup (or more correctly the possibility of hookup) and can get stuck in between hookup and commitment leaving them with neither. And it seems it is easy for people to get stuck in searching mode. This allows them to keep believing the fantasy; there is someone special coming along, it could be better etc.
But for those who are done with hook up for whatever reason, who are looking to find their partner, which means one person after which you are finished and no longer care to win over girls, then you are dealing with courtship. This is different. You also have to commit proper before sex happens. You present yourself to the girl and she will examine if you are a good partner; whether you will be a good provider, what your values are, how you will fit in with the rest of the family maybe etc. These are the things you have to care about, presumably you already do which is why you are in this category. You will still be judged but in a different way. Let no one think a relationship can happen without some judgement after all you are judging the girl too.
It is worth mentioning it is good to masturbate before talking to or meeting with the girl. At least once of course but preferably twice or more. This takes away the tension, you are not thinking about sex and can have a decent conversation. You will also get to focus a little on what she is like versus just thinking she is hot. (Nothing wrong with her being hot). This will be handy for the intermediate spaces and times.
Then speaking of cultural compatibility, of course it is always easiest to marry within your culture with someone who shares a similar upbringing and value systems. However if you happen to be a misfit in your culture or the culture has collapsed then you have to find compatibility.
If yours in a more protestant temperament - you try to appear moderate, you find the msytical silly or boring, same for ritual, you avoid excessive emotions, you think everything is moving forward in a line of progress, you make lists and keep your house very tidy, you have a copy of richard dawkins' book with you, you think friends is funny, then the oriental cultures are a good fit for you - china, korea, singapore, japan a little, also scandinavian lutherian countries. There will still be differences but there will be a common understanding of how life should be.
If yours is a more catholic temperament - you ar drawn by the ritual and mystery, moved by the passion, enjoy a little chaos, are goofy maybe, a little cynical too perhaps, know pathos, brooding, think richard dawkins is an idiot, turn off the tv when friends is on then cultures that fit are hindu, orthodox christian....(any others?)
Of course even in a culture that is incompatible you could find a misfit there but the odds are lower for that. And then there are the wannabes. In some places you will find people trying to become waspy even if it does not fit their base temperament. Some taiwanese people try to act japanese. Asians in america becomes twinkies, coconuts. All ruining themselves trying to become something they are not. These people may not be that good matches because they are well fake and generally very confused inside.
The south east asian cutures, combodia, thailand, vietnam, I don't know how they fit. Anyone has suggestions where these and other cultures fit? Perhaps we can draw up a chart.
Remember there is no judgement here. You can only be who you are and shouldn't try to be something you are not.
The hookup and perpetual searching for a better girl over the horizon- is that not the general tone here? Many other expat sites focus on the actual details of living overseas- often related to family living issues, schools etc., while here the tone seems to be finding easy sex with one eye to the horizon for that perfect girl for "someday", which of course, will never come. Like you say, if that floats your boat...
I think the perpetual searching mode offers a kind of shelter and it might be a trap that can keep one from ever deciding or making commitments, after all, there is always a somewhat better lay just around the corner or one plane ticket away.
It's just a different perspective. I would say in the Philippines, most of the expats I am in touch with are family men. Many of course are not into family and are in the bar and GRO set, and our paths do not cross.
One thing in that connection is significant. Filipinos in general, especially government related folks, see and treat you much differently if you are a family man in the Philippines as opposed to someone they perceive as just being there to screw their women. Having a bar girl for a GF will severely limit your social contacts in the Philippines. It is the "look" they will exchange
with each other, and you will not see them again. They see you as a vulgar low class individual. They might bang a bar girl, they just do not see that as acceptable GF or wife material...not the kind of girl you take home to mother.
One way or the other, it tends to lock one in the world they choose and enjoy...
I think personally that you're trying WAY too hard to focus on what to say. I think that to begin with you should simply ask open-ended questions about non-threatening everyday things like her family, what she likes etc. and find common ground. Also, try not to talk about things that only interest you, the trick is to show interest. Look at Winston's advice, you get his drift?
I know this sounds silly and ultra basic, but I feel that this is a very good way to open people up. I don't mean to come accross as patronising in any way. It's an absolute fact that the best conversations DO happen spontaneously. I think that planning and rehearsing what to say can in fact generate pressure.
Also do you feel like; 'I must say the right things or she'll think I'm boring'. Could this be generating pressure? This could be the result of conditioning. This is not a relaxing and confidence-inducing mindset. You must look at this from a different angle.
Maybe you're also focusing too much on getting results (e.i. dates, sex), and this is generating a lot of pressure. When you're under pressure it can be difficult knowing what to say. Just focus on things like expanding your network or even just enjoying the conversation and you should be more relaxed. Meeting women is supposed to be fun, not a means to an end. I could be wrong about all this however, I belieive that your focus does have a big impact.
You also said in the original post that you feel like you come accross as a 'nerd'. You shouldn't see yourself that way, it won't do your self-esteem any good at all. Again, you must find a way of looking at yourself in a diferent light. Maybe society or something has conditioned you to see yourself that way. Also, you mustn't beat yourself up when you get rejected.
I think that the more relaxed you feel about yourself, the more free-flowing conversations will be. This will show in your body language.
I hope you find this useful.
This works great until you don't speak her language and she doesn't speak yours.
Now I am sure that many here would like to and can pick up a girl non-verbally on the dance floor, but I am 50.
I want to be able to talk with her and if I cannot it does not matter if she is a Brasilian 12.0, age 17.
I have done this, approached women in China cold and hit them up for coffee, a number, dinner right on the spot.
Nothing when I speak English or butchered Chinese.
That content is mighty damned important.
Yes this is very true. The perpetual searching mode seems like a shelter from reality. It may not even be about the better lay, but about keeping the fantasy alive. It is like remaining a teenager forever, remaining in your adolescent fantasies and possibilities. The moment you stop searching and accept someone as your partner you have to accept the daily daily mundane of life. You have to find a way to live with her and her family. You will have to accept that James bond is not real. You have to also accept that you are not going to be able to hookup with all the other girls.
Yes no doubt, but still the tone here gives a fascinating glimpse of the breakdown of the post-modernist mind. Half the discussions are about game and hookup, the other are bemoaning the loss of the patriarchy and the culture of narcissism. So which is it you want then?
A patriarch may set up a family tree, build value over time, emphasize ritual and tradition. He does not hookup. He would not be James bond. I'm not sure what James bond is but he is not a patriarch.
So we want all the goodness of the patriarchy but also want to be james bond. We want to make the commitment but retain the option to do something else. Throw in some new age shit like believe it and it will be yours and you have the perfect recipe for lonliness, unhappiness and various neuroses.
It seems then that men are not immune from taking up destructive conditionings and beliefs.
I don't know where you come from or your background, but your insight is astute and well written. Obviously, you are
no amateur. Your comment about this being a unique insight into the post-modernist mind really hit home.
"Yes no doubt, but still the tone here gives a fascinating glimpse of the breakdown of the post-modernist mind. Half the discussions are about game and hookup, the other are bemoaning the loss of the patriarchy and the culture of narcissism. So which is it you want then?"
I thought no one else saw the contradiction. It's hard for me to think of myself as a patriarch but those are my values.
I do not hook up with other women, and I do love my wife. In reality, a decent love life is very difficult for men who really are
real life James Bonds- it is in fact a very difficult life. I suppose that a man unwilling to make a choice either way may end up caught in an endless cycle of desire and defeat.
The research continues....
There were some really good responses to the original question asked by Al. Winston was pretty dead on. I did the online dating route too so I talked to a ton of girls, and because I wanted asians, and I like the filipina girls, 95% of them were filipinas. A lot of them liked me so much I am still in touch with them on Facebook etc despite them knowing I have a girlfriend from the Phillipines. So I can, lol, IMO speak with some authority on the subject.
1. You may not want to USE the webcam EVERY time. Maybe having the cam up every time is making you uneasy. This can happen because there is nothing worse than the silence look between two people IRL. Take the pressure off yourself.
2. Have music playing in the background that either relaxes you or makes you feel more confident. Set the mood for yourself.
3. Use some PUA material. This kind of thing can work like a charm because they simply aren't expecting it.
4. Use humor OFTEN, especially EARLY ON. If you can get a girl laughing hard early on, and you see her laughing on the webcam...you've got her. Think about it. She's laughing out loud in a public place often times.
a. And DON'T JUST TELL JOKES. For my money's worth, jokes suck. Now, those girls allllllllllllll commented on how funny I was...and this happens in real life too.....some people I know IRL say I'm one of the funniest people they've ever met...and you know what? I've never told a joke in my life. Never. To me, jokes are artificial and contrived. You need to learn techniques like observational, situational humor. Be able to think of something funny on the fly and spontaneously in the heat of the conversation.
5. As Winston was saying, take an active interest in her culture. Get her talking about her world. You just can't go wrong here. A lot of these women confessed to me that so many of the guys they talked to basically didn't take much of an interest in them beyond their appearance. You might not know it at first, but this can go a long way, which leads to:
6. Let's say you hit it off w a girl and you talk to her a few times. Start digging deeply into her life. Find out about her hopes, fears, whatever. You need to work to establish some type of intimacy and bond between the two of you that.....makes her want to talk to you because she has this "odd" connection with you.
7. Once you're more on the winning side of a battle, at some point tell her you were thinking about her during the day, and that you were looking fwd to talking to her all evening. This will flatter her.
8. Don't be intimidated AT ALL. Winston was right. These girls are friendly and simple to talk to. I think some of us are still hung up on the verbal fencing we have to do with western women to get laid.
9. And just be yourself, man. I can't stress this enough. What you think is not interesting about you...may not be the case at all with her. You have a whole range and lifetime of experiences to draw from to share with a girl, furthermore...she has probably never been outside her town in the Phillipines. You have travelled and can travel. You have a huge advantage there. In this sense, you ARE like James Bond to THEM.
Lastly, I know some people said maybe you should just go to a place, but I think that depends on what you want. If you are looking for a monogamous relationship an potential wife like I was, once you establish a deep connection with a girl over a period of months over the internet like I did, the battle is already half won. When you land in her city, unless you do some collossal f**k up...you are going to sweep that girl off her feet for coming out there FOR HER.
When I first got to Jakarta, and I was sitting in the outdoor hotel bar having a cocktail as the sun set, waiting for my girl to arrive from her flight...I wasn't even remotely nervous. I knew I'd already won the battle.
And sitting there, I did feel like Bond.
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