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Why are the Nazis considered the bad guys?

If you're a history buff, love to talk about history and watch the History Channel, this is the board for that.

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Postby colinberry1 » July 29th, 2013, 10:57 am

Well just look at what we have now, just try getting out of that,
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Postby Mr.Darcy » July 30th, 2013, 2:36 pm

It just doesn't make any sense. If Hitler was an insane racist idiot, how did he come to power and have most of the population favor him? Why would he ally with Japan if he was so focused on race? Why would he use other cultures to influence his ideas? Yet, the allies were racists and immoral as well. and they allied with Stalin which people now argue to this day that he was worse than hitler. The jews got back at Germany after ww1 and they did the same after ww2.
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Postby fschmidt » July 30th, 2013, 5:02 pm

Mr.Darcy wrote:It just doesn't make any sense. If Hitler was an insane racist idiot, how did he come to power and have most of the population favor him? Why would he ally with Japan if he was so focused on race? Why would he use other cultures to influence his ideas? Yet, the allies were racists and immoral as well. and they allied with Stalin which people now argue to this day that he was worse than hitler. The jews got back at Germany after ww1 and they did the same after ww2.

Hitler wasn't insane and wasn't an idiot, but he was racist. Being racist doesn't mean he couldn't ally with other races that he thought were acceptable. Jews didn't get back at Germany after WW1, that is just absurd.
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Postby Jester » July 31st, 2013, 2:45 am

momopi wrote:
The Japanese invasion of Manchuria took place in 1931. The KMT leadership knew that they were militarily inferior to Japan's technology, and went to Nazi Germany for assistance. The Chinese military modernization plan, outlined by German advisers, were to train 80 NRA divisions to German standards, as well as domestically manufacture military armaments under license from Germany. In exchange, China would export much-needed raw materials to Germany. The Chinese government at the time had serious financial issues and could not afford to pay in cash, but did have bountiful resources such as tungsten that is critical to making armor piercing ammunition, which Germany needed.

From the Japanese perspective, knowing that they were the one who invaded Manchuria and China wants it back, they watched the Chinese military modernize with German assistance and realized that if they sit on their asses, the Chinese Army would eventually have 80 divisions of modernized troops trained by German advisers, and equipped with German hardware. The Germans were willing to export their modern armaments to China, including Panzer tanks and a variety of aircraft. Once the modernization program is complete, the Chinese army would most likely march north and crush the Japanese army in Manchuria.

The Japanese Army decided that they could not afford to "stood pat" and invaded South, then the rest is history. They were able to nip the Chinese military modernization program in the bud, and force Germany to officially discontinue their military assistance to China, though relations continued to early 1940s.
From the US perspective, had Japan successfully conquered China, it would make Japan a much larger competitor and long-term threat to US interests in the Pacific. Thus, it was not in America's best interest to allow that to happen.

Unfortunately for the Japanese, Tojo was in charge instead of Yamamoto. Had Yamamoto been the boss, he would have prevented the Japanese army from invading Manchuria in the first place. Much of what Yamamoto said about attacking the US is widely reported and do not need to be repeated. He was a Navy man who believed in using gunboat diplomacy to get the most favorable treaties for Japan without being dragged into a massive land war. He knew very well that the Japan would have a time-limited advantage in both China and the Pacific.

At the beginning of the second Sino-Japanese war, the Chinese NRA (Army) had approx. 1.7 million men. By the end of WW2, after 8 years of fighting across China, the NRA numbered over 5 million. When Pearl Harbor was attacked, the US had 8 carriers vs. Japan had 16. By end of WW2 the Japanese had built 27 aircraft carriers (+4 under construction) and lost most of them, versus the USN had built 119 carriers with another 20-25 under construction. In 1941 the USN had 790 ships in commission, in 1945 the USN had 6,768 ships in commission (a total of 8,312 USN ships were in service during WW2). Yamamoto had correctly predicted that Japan would be fighting against impossible odds in a protracted war against opponents that grew in size over time.

The kind of odds that Japan was up against can be described as, fighting against an army that grew in size by ~500,000 every year, and fighting against a navy that grew by ~2,000 ships every year. This is why the Japanese ended up committing themselves to suicide attacks in later stages of the war.


New info to me!

Explains why Japan bit off more than they could chew.

Is this acknowledged by "establishment" historians?
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Postby Winston » August 3rd, 2013, 7:22 am

Check out this Nazi cartoon about Jews and Blacks in America. It's pretty funny. Odbo would have loved this. He would have fit in very well in Nazi Germany.

Caption: “America for the ‘Americans’! The extraordinary increase in the population of Negroes and Jews is causing headaches for the more established Americans.â€￾ Source: Issue #23/1934

Image
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Postby Winston » August 3rd, 2013, 7:27 am

To read what the Nazis actually said, wrote and preached, in order to better understand them, see this index of Nazi literature, pamphlets and speeches:

Pre 1933 Nazi Material
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/pre1933.htm

Post 1933 Nazi Material
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ww2era.htm

Nazi pamphlet debunking Allied propaganda and lies about them: (click next to scroll through the pamphlet)
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/lugen0.htm

Anti-semitic Nazi literature against the Jews
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ ... tm#Antisem
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Postby Moretorque » August 4th, 2013, 12:56 am

Mr.Darcy wrote:It just doesn't make any sense. If Hitler was an insane racist idiot, how did he come to power and have most of the population favor him? Why would he ally with Japan if he was so focused on race? Why would he use other cultures to influence his ideas? Yet, the allies were racists and immoral as well. and they allied with Stalin which people now argue to this day that he was worse than hitler. The jews got back at Germany after ww1 and they did the same after ww2.


Don't pay attention to the guy who posted under you, he is in a dream world of denial. We are waiting for the intelligent folk to figure out the reason to tie your money supply to something real. There is a hidden creditor who makes unlimited money and they have been twisting all of us inside and out searching for dictatorships to enforce on the people that work for them so they can rule the world.

Yes these creditors for the most part claim to be of Gods tribe.
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Postby PeterAndrewNolan » August 4th, 2013, 10:21 pm

Well? I live here and I have bothered to go find out more about what REALLY happened and not the fairy story about what happened. Alas, those are VERY sensitive things for anyone living in Germany. As per usual? All is not as it seems. That the three world wars were planned in the 1870s should be a BIG HINT about what really happened in Germany in WW II.
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Postby Moretorque » August 5th, 2013, 12:05 am

PeterAndrewNolan wrote:Well? I live here and I have bothered to go find out more about what REALLY happened and not the fairy story about what happened. Alas, those are VERY sensitive things for anyone living in Germany. As per usual? All is not as it seems. That the three world wars were planned in the 1870s should be a BIG HINT about what really happened in Germany in WW II.


We are cattle being herded around as they search for a system to rule the world permanently, you know England has been doing this and getting away with it for centuries. They have nothing to loose, they just print digits up and hand them out to idiots to do their bidding for it.

I am amazed at how people will kill each other over made up #'s.
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Postby Winston » August 14th, 2013, 9:18 am

Here is a Nazi newsletter by Joseph Goebbels explaining why England and Churchill are responsible for WWII. Interesting to hear their side of it.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb47.htm

It is a major error to assume that England’s plutocrats slipped into the war against their will or even against their intentions. The opposite is true. The English warmongers wanted the war and used all the resources at their disposal over the years to bring it about. They surely were not surprised by the war. English plutocracy had no goal other than to unleash war against Germany at the right moment, and this since Germany first began to seek once again to be a world power.

Poland really had little to do with the outbreak of war between the Reich and England. It was only a means to an end. England did not support the Polish government out of principle or for humanitarian reasons. That is clear from the fact that England gave Poland no help of any kind whatsoever when the war began. Nor did England take any measures against Russia. The opposite, in fact. The London warring clique to this day has tried to bring Russia into the campaign of aggression against Germany.

The encirclement of Germany long before the outbreak of the war was traditional English policy. From the beginning, England has always directed its main military might against Germany. It never could tolerate a strong Reich on the Continent. It justified its policy by claiming that it wanted to maintain a balance of forces in Europe.


In the same newsletter, Goebbels commented on how England was spreading the false propaganda that Germany wanted to take over the world, when nothing could be further from the truth:

The English warmongers claim that National Socialism wants to conquer the world. No nation is secure against German aggression. An end must be made of the German hunger for power. The limit came in the conflict with Poland. In reality, however, there is another reason for England’s war with Germany. The English warmongers cannot seriously claim that Germany wants to conquer the world, particularly in view of the fact that England controls nearly two thirds of the world. And Germany since 1933 has never threatened English interests.


In conclusion, Goebbels emphasized that:

We did not want war. England inflicted it on us. English plutocracy forced it on us. England is responsible for the war, and it will have to pay for it.


As you can see, what Goebbels wrote paints a very different picture of what the Nazis wanted - peace and the avoidance of war - than what is presented to you by the Western history, which claims that Hitler wanted to take over the world.

In another newsletter "What Does America Really Want?" Goebbels stated that Germany just wanted to be left alone, yet America kept trying to support a worldwide campaign against them and would not mind their own business. He wrote:

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb28.htm

Was the American president ever personally attacked in the German press, or America’s leading men slandered? We have been very restrained, even though we certainly had every reason to discuss this or that matter of American domestic policy.

Such things are not our concern. American statesmen, not us, determine American domestic policy. We are concerned only with Germany’s affairs. We also have no reason or intention of smuggling German political ideas into America. The very opposite, since the methods that we use are purely German. They are only valid in Germany. But we do believe that just as we respect the internal affairs of other countries and avoid polemics against them, they should treat us in the same way.

One cannot say that that is true of the United States of North America at present. Nearly the whole press, radio, and film industry support the worldwide campaign against Germany.

Senator Pitman put the matter bluntly on 22 December 1938: “The American people do not like Germany’s government.â€￾

...We have nothing against the American people. We know and respect their political views and internal affairs, even if we might do things differently. We believe we have the right to expect the same of American public opinion about Germany. We also fail to see the benefits of such controversy. What good will it do America? Does it think it can starve Germany using the same methods as those of the World War?

...It is time to recommend peace and good sense. American public opinion is going the wrong way. It would benefit by returning to the old, tested practices of international courtesy and good manners, and by treating Germany in the way normal among civilized nations.


As you can see, his noble words call for peace, and for Germany to be treated with courtesy and respect, like civilized nations ought to be treated. These are hardly the words of warmongers who want to take over the world.
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Postby colinberry1 » August 19th, 2013, 11:00 am

Well this is an interesting read.
Not picking any side's, but just perusing the different information that is floating on the net, but these days who do you believe, but the truth is out there somewhere.

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... 60&t=55124

UK Government To Start "NATIONAL SERVICE"
http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... &mobile=on

http://thewatchtowers.com/urgent-red-al ... ice-video/
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Postby Winston » August 22nd, 2013, 5:26 pm

Interesting movie about a world where the Nazis won WWII.

Fatherland (1994) - Full Film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BUzxvrWNBY

Description:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109779/

Fictional account of what might have happened if Hitler had won the war. It is now the 1960's and Germany's war crimes have so far been kept a secret. Hitler wants to talk peace with the US president. An American journalist and a German homicide cop stumble into a plot to destroy all evidence of the genocide.
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Postby Winston » February 12th, 2014, 7:23 am

You won't believe these quotes I found by American historians that say that Britain and the Allies caused and started WWII with Germany! WTF?! Are they real? If so, how can this be? They go against the dogma that we've been taught about the Nazis starting WWII for world domination.

Quotes by Winston Churchill floating around also incriminate Britain, saying that it wanted a war with Germany for economic reasons. I've pasted them below as well. Are they legit? Why would Churchill say these things if he had portrayed Britain as a victim of WWII all along? Also below are quotes by diplomats and generals that incriminate the Allies for causing WWII as well.

Quotes by American Historians that incriminate the Allies

"Britain was taking advantage of the situation to go to war against Germany because the Reich had become too strong and had upset the European balance."
- Ralph F. Keeling, Institute of American Economics

"In no country has the historical blackout been more intense and effective than in Great Britain. Here it has been ingeniously christened The Iron Curtain of Discreet Silence. Virtually nothing has been written to reveal the truth about British responsibility for the Second World War and its disastrous results."
- Harry Elmer Barnes. American Historian

"The fact is that the only real offer of security which Poland received in 1938 and 1939 emanated from Hitler. He offered to guarantee the boundaries laid down in the Versailles Treaty against every other country. Even the Weimar Republic had not for a moment taken this into consideration. Whatever one may think of Hitler's government or foreign policy, no doubt exists on this point; his proposals to Poland in 1938/39 were reasonable and just and the most moderate of all which he made during the six years of his efforts to revise the Versailles Treaty by peaceful means."
- Professor Harry Elmer Barnes, American Historian

"The precise effect of the Mutual Assistance Pact was to give Poland a clear signal that aggression and belligerency was tolerable and a warning to Germany that any retaliation would be met by force."
- Sir. Basil Liddell Hart, The History of the Second World War

"The last thing Hitler wanted was to produce another great war. His people, and particularly his generals, were profoundly fearful of any such risk - the experiences of World War One had scarred their minds."
- Sir. Basil Liddell Hart, The History of the Second World War

Quotes by Winston Churchill that incriminate Britain

World War 1

"Should Germany merchandise (do business) again in the next 50 years we have led this war (WW1) in vain."
- Winston Churchill in The Times (1919)

World War 2

"We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not."
- Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

"Germany becomes too powerful. We have to crush it."
- Winston Churchill (November 1936 speaking to US General Robert E. Wood)

"This war is an English war and its goal is the destruction of Germany."
- Winston Churchill (Autumn 1939 broadcast)

"The war wasn’t only about abolishing fascism, but to conquer sales markets. We could have, if we had intended so, prevented this war from breaking out without doing one shot, but we didn’t want to."
- Winston Churchill to Truman (Fultun, USA March 1946)

"Germany’s unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an independent exchange system from which the world-finance couldn’t profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig."
- Winston Churchill (The Second World War - Bern, 1960)

Quotes by others about WWII that incriminate the Allies

"I believe strongly in the honourable intentions of your Fuhrer, however, tell him he should not overlook the fact that the ancient hatred of my people against everything German is abysmal."
- Marshall Pilsudski (1867-1935)

"Of all the Germans, Believe it or not, Hitler is the most moderate as far as Danzig and the Corridor are concerned."
- Sir, Neville Henderson, British Ambassador to Berlin, 16th August, 1939

"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it, even if it wants to."
- Rydz-Smigly, Chief inspector of the Polish army in a public speech in front of Polish officiers (Summer 1939)

"Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other."
- Lord Halifax, English embassador in Washington (1939)

"There will be no peace in Europe until all Polish lands shall have been restored completely to Poland, until the name Prussia, being that of a people long since gone, shall have been wiped from the map of Europe, and until the Germans have moved their capital Berlin farther westwards."
- Henryk Baginski, Poland and the Baltic, Edinburgh 1942.

"Poland's decision of August 30, 1939 that was the basis for general mobilization marked a turning point in the history of Europe. It forced Hitler to wage war at a time when he hoped to gain further unbloody victories. "
- Kazimierz Sosnkowski, Polish General and Government-in-Exile's commander-in-chief, August 31, 1943

"We made a monster, a devil out of Hitler. Therefore we couldn’t disavow it after the war. After all, we mobilized the masses against the devil himself. So we were forced to play our part in this diabolic scenario after the war. In no way we could have pointed out to our people that the war only was an economic preventive measure."
- US foreign minister James Baker (1992)

"Not the political doctrine of Hitler has hurled us into this war. The reason was the success of his increase in building a new economy. The roots of war were envy, greed and fear."
- Major General J.F.C. Fuller, historian, England

"We didn’t go to war in 1939 to save Germany from Hitler...or the continent from fascism. Like in 1914, we went to war for the not lesser noble cause that we couldn’t accept a German hegemony over Europe."
- Sunday Correspondent, London (17.9.1989)

"The enemy is the German Reich and not Nazism, and those who still haven’t understood this, haven’t understood anything."
– Churchill’s chief counselor Robert Lord Vansittart (as said to foreign minister Lord Halifax, September 1940)

End of quotes

Here is a clip from the Nazi film "Triumph of the Will (1935)" where Hitler addresses the Hitler Youth and says "The German people must be peace-loving. They must love peace, yet be brave."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C9iUaP51CI[/youtube]

How come the Western media never tells you that Hitler said that? He never said in his speeches that he wanted to take over the world. But I guess actions speak louder than words.
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Postby Winston » April 2nd, 2014, 11:29 am

Check out this thread in my SCEPCOP forum called "Were we told the truth about WWII?" It's very informative and controversial. Lots of debate in it.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/ ... =12&t=3347
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Postby green1976 » May 3rd, 2014, 1:39 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMbtilcv5lo[/youtube]
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