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Has Hitler been overly demonized/vilified and not as bad as we were told?

If you're a history buff, love to talk about history and watch the History Channel, this is the board for that.

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Post by fschmidt » February 11th, 2014, 5:11 am

How many threads on Hitler do you have, Winston? Why not just a create a new subforum called "The Hitler Fan Club"?

Of course you didn't respond to my post in your other recent Hitler thread, but for future reference, it's here:

viewtopic.php?p=168662#168662




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Post by Winston » February 11th, 2014, 6:25 am

fschmidt wrote:How many threads on Hitler do you have, Winston? Why not just a create a new subforum called "The Hitler Fan Club"?

Of course you didn't respond to my post in your other recent Hitler thread, but for future reference, it's here:

viewtopic.php?p=168662#168662
I already responded to that post here:
viewtopic.php?p=168716#168716
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Post by Jester » July 27th, 2014, 4:28 am

Winston wrote:Check out this new radical film odbo told me about that presents Hitler's side of the story, which we were never told. Up til now, we've only heard one side of the story. How fair is that?
Ignored this thread before (I think) because (even though I don't believe the HoloHoax horsehit) I am not that interested in whether Hitler was a good guy or a militaristic hothead.

But now I've stumbled on this, riveted by it. Stunning, truthful.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vfdZtpx ... hsgbxg6lIQ
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vfdZtpx ... hsgbxg6lIQ[/youtube]

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Post by OutWest » July 27th, 2014, 5:04 am

fschmidt wrote:How many threads on Hitler do you have, Winston? Why not just a create a new subforum called "The Hitler Fan Club"?

Of course you didn't respond to my post in your other recent Hitler thread, but for future reference, it's here:

viewtopic.php?p=168662#168662
If one suspends for a moment, any thought of the Jews, just the tens of thousands of Germans murdered by this man because they did not agree with him would kind of do it for
most rational folks. If every single account of the death of Jews was 100% false...the vast millions remain...Poles...Russians...handicapped...Gypsies...the all have their accounts of mass murder of their own...of course...all of these groups just made it all up and concocted a history for the events...

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Post by Cornfed » July 27th, 2014, 5:18 am

OutWest wrote:If every single account of the death of Jews was 100% false...the vast millions remain...Poles...Russians...handicapped...Gypsies...the all have their accounts of mass murder of their own
Would there have been a way to bring about positive outcomes in the circumstances without killing anyone?

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Post by fschmidt » July 27th, 2014, 5:34 am

Cornfed wrote:Would there have been a way to bring about positive outcomes in the circumstances without killing anyone?
Of course. Hitler's initial goal was to create one German homeland large enough to allow for the German diaspora. His original plan was to occupy land to the east including Poland and part of Russia (Ukraine actually). The problem with his initial plan is the same as the problem Israel has today, namely that one can't maintain second class citizens within one's borders in any sensible way. Hitler's plan for the slavs was basically the same as Israel's for the Palestinians. And of course the solution is obvious, just throw these people out. Hitler could have expanded Germany and thrown out all non-Germans with very few casualties. Israel could do the same today with the Palestinians. But since Nazism and Judaism are very similar ideologies, they both made / are making the same kind of mistakes.

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Post by Moretorque » July 31st, 2014, 2:18 am

fschmidt wrote:
Cornfed wrote:Would there have been a way to bring about positive outcomes in the circumstances without killing anyone?
Of course. Hitler's initial goal was to create one German homeland large enough to allow for the German diaspora. His original plan was to occupy land to the east including Poland and part of Russia (Ukraine actually). The problem with his initial plan is the same as the problem Israel has today, namely that one can't maintain second class citizens within one's borders in any sensible way. Hitler's plan for the slavs was basically the same as Israel's for the Palestinians. And of course the solution is obvious, just throw these people out. Hitler could have expanded Germany and thrown out all non-Germans with very few casualties. Israel could do the same today with the Palestinians. But since Nazism and Judaism are very similar ideologies, they both made / are making the same kind of mistakes.


From what I am lead to believe they look the same because they were created by the same people? Eustace Mullins does a interview in New Orleans in 2005 and it was very telling. :shock:
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Re: Has Hitler been overly demonized beyond what he deserves

Post by Winston » June 5th, 2015, 10:54 pm

New documentary about an 11 minute rare genuine recording of Hitler's private dialog with the leader of Finland, Mannerheim. It was recorded in a train where he was trying to sweet talk Mannerheim into helping the Nazis fight against Russia. Hitler did not know he was being recorded at the time.

Many people are surprised by this recording because Hitler sounds charming, relaxed and soft-spoken in it, not like the raving mad man that the US media depicts in his public speeches. Hitler explains in this recording that he didn't want war with the Soviet Union but felt he had to because the Soviets may take the oil fields of Romania and ruin the Nazi war machine. He explained why he went to war with Russia and sounded very calm and rational about it.



Here is the full recording with subtitles.

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Re: Has Hitler been overly demonized beyond what he deserves

Post by Winston » June 6th, 2015, 1:55 am

In the YouTube comments of the secret rare Hitler recording, someone made this interesting analysis of WWII strategy that makes sense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8raDPASvq0

"Peter Macmillan 7 months ago
+Jim Summers
Hi Jim,

I appreciate your knowledge of this topic, even if I disagree with you about some things. You might find Roger Moorhouse's new book "The Devil's Alliance" interesting. it came out this month, and it examines some of the issues we've been arguing about. He's an academic historian, but he writes without jargon, and cites his sources clearly, so you can decide for yourself whether you agree with his conclusions.

He challenges the received wisdom about when Hitler first decided to attack Russia, and points out the attempts that Hitler made to entice the USSR into war with Britain or China, and his desire to negotiate the USSR out of trying to influence Eastern Europe. When that failed, Hitler opted for war for primarily strategic reasons, rather than ideological ones. He was better prepared for war than the USSR, which was busy playing catchup in the development of weapons and tactics.

While Molotov was in Berlin in November 1940, there was a Soviet military conference near Moscow. The survivors of Stalin's purges were trying to rebuild the Red Army and to renew the development of offensive doctrine, capabilities, and weapons without getting in trouble with the NKVD. They were years away from attacking East.I don't think the invasion of the U.S.S.R. was a justifiable preemptive strike. It was an opportunistic grab for territory, resources, and power. Many countries (the Confederacy in 1861, Japan in 1941, Israel in 1973, and the United States in 2003) have claimed that they attacked an enemy that was about to attack them. All of those claims are subject to debate. I think the German claim is an outright lie.

I think we agree about Stalin's ultimate desire to conquer Western Europe. We disagree about whether he had a plan for doing so. I don't think so, and I don't think Stalin wanted to provoke a war in 1941. German had already defeated France, Britain was in serious trouble, and the Red Army was not strong enough to take on the Wehrmacht. If Hitler hadn't decided to declare war on the United States, if he had treated the Ukrainians and others better, if he had taken the advice of his generals in the spring of 1942, if Goering hadn't mismanaged the Luftwaffe, if the Japanese hadn't pulled their troops from the Soviet border in time for the Soviets to transfer armies from the East to defend Moscow, if, if, if, the USSR would have been defeated. Despite these mistakes, Stalin barely survived.

If Germany had prevailed, U.S.-German Cold War would have been as bad (or worse) than the U.S.-U.S.S.R. one. The treatment of ordinary people would have been as bad (or worse) in a German-controlled Europe as it was in the Warsaw Pact. The Jews were mistreated in the U.S.S.R., but not exterminated as they were in Nazi occupied Europe.

Hitler and Stalin were both evil. The Left in the United States has minimized the evils of communism and Stalin, and the Right in the United States has minimized the evils of fascism and of Hitler. Both tend to ignore the civilians killed by Allied bombing, our complicity in the Holocaust, and other uncomfortable truths about World War Two.

I think that's my last word on the subject for awhile. It's been a pleasure reading and responding to your posts. I read what you wrote with interest, and I might revisit "Icebreaker" and "Chief Culprit" at some point. I hope you'll keep an open mind as you continue your own reading and research.

Peter"
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Re: Has Hitler been overly demonized beyond what he deserves

Post by starchild5 » June 6th, 2015, 2:46 am

Don't waste your time on Hitler propaganda....They will keep this news alive as long as Darwin's fake evolution theory stands up....

I thought we are way past this cycle of Psy-Ops.....For some years, they will make a person...good and then bad and then reverse...all B**lS**t upon more b**ls**t

Common guys....These people are not HUMANS....They are messing with your mind....They are so smart...They win on both sides of the equation....Even if Hitler was good, they will win..Like Christ and will create a religion around it...


What is the difference between Hitler and Christ...NONE...They were both created to screw humanity
....Fake LIGHT VS DARK Psy-op..F***CK the Psy-ops really....

--------------------

The war was not about Hitler...It was about YOU...YOU YOU YOU YOU....Humanity....getting raped and f***cked....and murdered brutally....

...There is a conspiracy with in a conspiracy....They want to keep the memories of Hitler alive so that Jewish fake holohoax could get some ground...

Please delete Hitler good or bad from humanity and see how Jew's themselves will cry wolf....They themselves want Hitler name to be alive for ever

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Re: Has Hitler been overly demonized beyond what he deserves

Post by starchild5 » June 6th, 2015, 2:50 am

Can't believe the story on this actor has over 130 posts already....WAKE THE F UP....What is wrong with you people...

What the F are you doing all day and night in your first world countries.... :lol: :lol: ....Its soo obvious... :P :P .....This whole story is to keep his name alive...else...The jew's wouldn't be able to score on holohoax...

They don't want your Kids to ask...HITLER ...WHO?

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Hellstorm - Exposing the real genocide of Nazi Germany

Post by Mr S » June 6th, 2015, 11:41 am

Hellstorm - Exposing the real genocide of Nazi Germany

http://www.hellstormdocumentary.com/

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Re: Has Hitler been overly demonized beyond what he deserves

Post by Winston » June 6th, 2015, 12:21 pm

Check out this book that presents a fair and balanced evaluation and portrayal of Hitler. It goes deep into his good traits and bad traits, and paints a more realistic, complex image of Hitler rather than the cartoonish villain portrait that Western media paints.



Hitler: Beyond Evil and Tyranny

This fascinating and richly detailed new biography of Hitler reinterprets the known facts about the Nazi Fuehrer to construct a convincing, realistic portrait of the man. In place of the hollow shell others have made into an icon of evil, the author sees a complex, nuanced personality. Without in any way glorifying its subject, this unique revision of the historical Hitler brings us closer to understanding a pivotal personality of the twentieth century.

Here's a great review of it:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R24N5M1DY4XIKY/

"127 of 145 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars A much needed corrective history, November 7, 2011
By BMSMEAR
This review is from: Hitler: Beyond Evil and Tyranny (Hardcover)

Prof. Stolfi has written a much needed corrective interpretive
history of Adolf Hitler - a history free of the socially mandated operating
assumption and pre-conceived conclusion of Hitler as fundamentally evil;
that 'evil' is the appropriate and only filter with which to interpret all of Hitler's
actions, values and aspirations. This typical approach inevitable leads to
authorial moralizing complete with an endless string of
condemning adjectives re: Hitler, i.e. psycho, barbaric, evil, crazy, insane,
egomaniacal. This is not only tiresome, but un-enlightening,
un-academic, and useless in reaching meaningful conclusions about Hitler
and his motivations. Hitler winds up as a buffoonish cartoon rather than a complex human
being with sincere motives.

Prof. Stolfi courageously uses a more realistic approach to his subject,
applying a new filter to interpret Hitler and reaching conclusions that immediately
strike the reader as realistic and more accurate than the pre-packaged
condemnations of previous authors. The end result is a broader portrait of a
three-dimensional human, rather than a cartoonish figure.

Prof. Stolfi and Prometheus publishers are owed a great debt of gratitude
for this book: serious social sanctions are typically applied to Hitler biographers
who use any interpretive filter other than 'Hitler as evil': sanctions including
boycott, ad hominum attack, accusations of prejudice, pressure to terminate employment,
etc. In taking the risk, they've provided the public with the rarist commodity - real
history rather than dogmatic ideology masquerading as history."

In the comments section, some great points were made about Hitler's great accomplishments and innovations in the area of economic recovery that the world should learn from:

"BaylessKtol says:
from My new order, by Adolf Hitler, edited w/ commentary by Raoul de Roussy de Sales. This comment by de Sales is on p. 133:

"It was always one of Hitler's greatest boasts that of all civilized countries Germany had been the only one to find a cure for this world evil, unemployment. . . .Unemployment was cured, according to him, as soon as the concept that the wealth of a country was not its gold nor its capital, but its powers of production and its labor, was accepted. Germany having no gold and being, in fact, financially bankrupt, the problem had to be solved by unorthodox methods. And there is no disputing the fact that the system evolved by the German economists and financiers under the pressure of necessity did succeed in producing an apparent recovery which baffled the world. In a very short time after Hitler's advent to power, not only was unemployment wiped out, but a shortage of labor began to appear. The problem of capital was also solved by the simple process of a disguised, but nonetheless real, centralization of control in the hands of the government. Employers and industrialists became, in fact, mere managers, operating under the direction of the State."
=====

That last sentence -- that Hitler & the NSDAP government took over management of Germany's financial and economic affairs from "employers and industrialists" -- a great majority of whom were Jewish and also Anglo -- may have been the event that precipitated Louis Brandeis's declaration to Rabbi Stephen Wise, "within a fortnight of der Fuhrer's rise to power" [on Jan. 30, 1933] that "All Jews must leave Germany." [see p. 78, 1984 ed. of Edwin Black's The Transfer Agreement--25th Anniversary Edition: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine ]Brandeis may have interpreted the signals correctly: no longer would Germany be the piggy bank for exploitation by American & Jewish bankers."

Another commentator presented some shocking facts about the alleged Holocaust extermination of the Jews.

"Bulldog says:
Wow, the comments in this thread make me want to bang my head against a wall.

1) If you look at modern historical books you would come to the conclusion that everyone who died in the camps were Jews (they weren't) and that Hitler personally killed them all.

2) Look up the voyage of the damned. They made a movie about it for those of you who are confused by big words. Basically the Nazi's shipped off a boatload of Jews and no other country would take them. In the words of the Canadian government (Mr. Nice guys) "why should we have to deal with Germany's Jew problem." If antisemitism wasn't rampant, the Nazi's couldn't have rounded them up.

3) Don't you think we should learn from history? Instead of demonizing the man and basically making it out like he's Satan incarnate, why not take a step back and look at how this man developed, how he (and the Nazi party) came to power, how they went from being democratically elected to being a totalitarian government. Good things came out of the Nazi years as well, before the Nazi's inflation was so out of control that employees wanted to be paid in bread because money was basically worthless. Hitler brought prosperity, the autobahn and the Volkswagen. Maybe by actually learning the whole story, we can prevent something like this from happening again, the way the US economy is going, it would be quite easy for another Hitler to move in, blame the Arabs, and away we'd go again."

This commentator explains what made Hitler great and why the Holocaust was not premeditated:

"Nichidoku says:
Firstly, mind you one point: A world historical figure means someone having rendered huge impact on world history, regardless of one's political nature i.e. being either a good saint or a bad evil. Thus whatever Hitler's conviction, he is indisputably a world historic figure, and a super-sized one. It seems you have pathetically failed to understand the definition of a basic term of common sense. Pity on you.

Secondly, I would like to state my opinion on Hitler. I believe he is one of the greatest statesmen and the most brilliant strategist on throughout the human history, as well as a remarkable artist, a self-educated intellectual and great book reader. He is both intelligent and diligent and lives a simple and plain private life. He has a genuine and irrepressible desire to love and help his fellow German people, reclaim the honor, revive the vitality and restore the power and prestige of his beloved German nation which is nothing wrong as any capable and ambitious national leader, and for such good intentions and lofty aims he has committed himself fully and selflessly, has done a lot of things concretely and has made substantial achievements politically, economically and socially which are truthful and undeniable facts.

Hitler's only material fault is to order the elimination of many Jews in Europe. But there are several clarifying points that needs to be brought into perspective for a fair, in-depth and comprehensive understanding of this seemingly inexcusable matter:

1. the number of 6 million is grossly inflated.
2. Jews as a collective elitist body on the world stage did do lots of bad things to the native societies where they inhabit as evidenced by their ruthless and relentless effort of controlling, monopolizing and manipulating political and economic, and cultural life of many European countries and US, both in that age and at today, with ulterior motives and dirty means which naturally invite legitimate opposition and protest from the native peoples.
3. The Holocaust is not really a premeditated agenda. Hitler, for all his animus toward the Jewish, didn't intend to physically exterminate Jews in the first place. In fact he initially cooperated with Zionist movement to encourage and help Jews in Germany to relocate in their cradle place the Midddle East. Only when the war time situation escalated and deteriorated, Hitler lost his patience and rationality and started to order to wipe out many Jews in that regard as a "final solution"."

Some more interesting revelations:

"VMeister says:
Mr. King - Might I add that FDR was also enamorate with Hitler. Both leaders were amazed (and jealous) at Germany's recovery from the depression under Hitler's stewardship. Both Churchill and FDR's aggressiveness against Germany in later half of 1930's was attributed to a certain degree by bankers, however it was largely due to pressure by jewish interest groups. Nice example of this, as reported by an outsider: google "jerzy potocki jews."
Churchill's connection with jews extend back in his family's history. I suspect, some of Churchill's positions within the British govt might have been promoted by them - including Chancellor of the Exchequer, a post that hardly fits Winston's background. His love of jews and Zionism are best represented by letters to Zionist leader Theodr Herzl during and after war (Churchill did win, post war, Herzl Award). Another aspect that is not usually highlighted is that aristocratic Churchill/FDR resented the success of the "non-establishment" leader of Germany.
On the side, to get an accurate flavor or zeitgeist of the period, read Henry Ford's book "International Jew." This is an excellent and rather unbiased book that is both well written and researched. It is an eye opener - very relevant to today. Google "International Jew Study Hour" to hear a reading/commentary of this book.
Ah, the "footnotes" of history carry the truth."
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Re: Has Hitler been overly demonized beyond what he deserves

Post by Winston » June 6th, 2015, 1:55 pm

Momopi,
Can you shed light on this? I'm confused about something. The Neo-Nazi documentaries claim that during The Battle of Britain, Churchill was the one who first bombed civilian cities in Germany, which resulted in Hitler bombing London rather than just military targets. But American documentaries such as "Why We Fight" (produced by Frank Capra and the US Army) claim the reverse: That Hitler was the one who first started bombing London, which resulted in Churchill retaliating and bombing German civilian cities. What's the truth on this matter?

Also, why didn't the Allies declare war on Russia for invading Poland too? And why did the Allies let Stalin capture Eastern Europe after WWII? Why didn't they fight to liberate Eastern Europe from Stalin too?
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Re: Has Hitler been overly demonized beyond what he deserves

Post by droid » June 6th, 2015, 2:23 pm

. .Unemployment was cured, according to him, as soon as the concept that the wealth of a country was not its gold nor its capital, but its powers of production and its labor, was accepted.
Please see
https://archive.org/stream/GottfriedFed ... 9_djvu.txt


"g. Social-Democracy is doomed because it is based on Marxist ideology, which does not recognize the radical difference between industrial capital and loan-capital. Social- Democratic government, as a moderate application of Marxism that fails, paves the way for Communism"
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?

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