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Do most people secretly admire Adolf Hitler?

If you're a history buff, love to talk about history and watch the History Channel, this is the board for that.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Do you secretly admire Adolf Hitler? Be honest, your vote will be anonymous.

Yes, I do. He was an admirable and amazing leader who brought his country out of ruin into great strength and prosperity, even if he was misguided.
17
59%
No, I don't and never have. He was an evil tyrant who spread racist hatred and massacred many innocent Jews and people.
12
41%
 
Total votes: 29

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Post by Wolfeye » September 18th, 2014, 7:24 am

Well, someone doesn't HAVE to take pleasure in doing any of these things in order to be evil. An argument could be made that someone that DOESN'T want to do any of that & does anyway is WORSE.

As far as evil, I detest all forms of living someone else's life. I know, self-defense is technically imposing things on people & all that- but I think the overall theory of hi-jacking other people's lives is well-conveyed. Actually, the only thing I can think to compare it to is a demon. That whole substitutive style? Even a parasite doesn't quite cover it.

Hitler is something very easy to reference when one means "f***ed-up." It's just life a "zombie apocalypse" as a general "what if?" scenario. Any time someone's worried about having to scavange for tools, get food from somewhere other than a store, and fight determined enemies the theme of "zombie apocalypse" comes up. It doesn't seem like there's ever been zombies going on a rampage (at least, not in numbers).

Another thing is that American media sensationalizes anything race-based, as far as attacks go. Someone white can get attacked in the exact same way as someone black, but there's no extra racial angle to sell- so it doesn't tend to make the news. All I really heard about World War II in school was basically that millions of Jews died & a little bit of American involvement in the war. Pearl Harbor was mentioned, the term "island hopping" came up, and that an atomic bomb was dropped. A very little bit about the resistance in France & about D-Day (nothing in detail, really), was about it. Didn't mention Russia, didn't mention Greece driving Italy out of their country, didn't mention Britain or anything they did in S.E. Asia, didn't mention any of the appalling stuff that happened at Nanking or Norway (apparently, there was a bunch of Polish & Russian women that got thrown in a brothel in Norway & there was a mass escape attempt- don't know if it worked or not).

They definitely didn't mention the famine in Ukraine, which killed millions of people (some say it it was 12 million, but a lot of estimates seem to be around 6 or 7). No mention of that seems to imply that it doesn't matter, since they weren't Jews. The whole damn story of World War II wasn't about some people trying to take over the world or comport other people's lives wherever they went, it was all about the attacking of the Jews. The whole war revolved around the Jews, as far as school conveyed.




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Post by Winston » September 18th, 2014, 8:08 am

You all gotta understand something.

No one thinks of themselves as evil. Everyone thinks they are doing the right thing and best thing. Even Hitler never saw himself as evil. So that's a very subjective word.

Rulers have a different perspective than we do.

Rulers and leaders do not see things the way you do. They have a different perspective and see a bigger picture. To them, their country is like their own body and soul, like a single organism. They do what's best for it.

Here is a simple analogy to help you understand the mentality of ruling elites:

For them to kill or sacrifice human lives, would be akin to you killing off "bad cells" in your body so that your overall health can be better and stronger. That's how they see things. They view the country they are ruling like a single organism. What's best for the organism (country) is what they look for.

They cannot afford to be kind and respectful to every person, or else they could not rule successfully or efficiently. Likewise, you cannot preserve the lives of every cell in your body, because some of them have to be sacrificed for the good of the larger whole.

When invading bacteria come into your body, your immune system has to send white blood cells to kill them off. Does that make your immune system "evil" for killing the invading bacteria or germs? Not really. It does what it needs to protect you. Isn't that a good thing? Would you prefer it otherwise?

To the invading bacteria, the white blood cells sent out by your immune system might be considered "evil". So it's all a matter of perspective, of which side you are on. There are "bacteria wars" in your body everyday. Your immune system does what's necessary to protect your health.

If you can understand this analogy and see it from that perspective, it will better help you understand the mentality of rulers and the ruling elite.

Rulers tend to be far smarter than we are.

Also, the ruling elites tend to be far smarter than we the common people. To lead or rule a nation or government, or even a large organization, takes a lot of intelligence, capability, skills, great vision, etc. It's not something an average person can do. Only an exceptionally few extraordinary people can do that.

Try putting on a Shakespeare play at your local community theater, and you will see how much work and responsibility it is. You have to organize a lot of details and tasks. If you don't love it, it will be very draining. It's not something anyone can do. It takes a lot of skill, capability and organizational skills, even though you are just directing a play at a community theater.

Now if you move up a larger scale to managing large organizations, cities, nations, governments, institutions, etc. then this becomes even more true. Running a nation, country, or even a large organization or industry takes exceptional people who are far smarter and brighter than most people. Such people require great vision, responsibility, and dedication in order to shoulder the burden of an entire country. They also need to make unpleasant decisions too sometimes.

The point is, these people are smarter than you and I. They can see things that you can't see. So you are in no position to judge them. You haven't been in their shoes either, so you can't really judge them fairly. As the saying goes, "You can't judge others if you haven't been in their shoes." So if you have never run a country or large organization, and don't know shit about it, then you are in no position to fairly judge rulers or understand them.

Anyone can sit and judge others or blame others as "bad or evil". But very few are capable of leading a nation or even a large organization. So you have to at least admire and respect such people, even if they do things that seem "evil, immoral corrupt".

Rulers see things we don't and may have reasons we don't understand.

You gotta consider that rulers and the ruling elite, may have reasons for doing things, that you can't understand or that you can't relate to.

A great story that illustrates this, is the book of Job in the Old Testament Bible. At the end of the story when Job asks God why he let all those bad things happen to him, God goes into an eloquent tirade about how he takes care of the Earth and all its plants and animals. He is basically telling Job that his vantage point is very different from Job's, and thus his reasons for doing things, or allowing things, can never be understood by Job.

Likewise, perhaps the ruling elite have reasons we can't understand as well, or they see things that we can't see. You gotta consider that.

Remember that everyone does the best they can with what they know how. Rulers may do bad things and may make mistakes. They aren't perfect. But their perspective is different than ours. They are smarter than us too. So we have to respect that at least.
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Post by gsjackson » September 18th, 2014, 10:35 am

Leave it to the most free thinking Asian on the planet to resuscitate something akin to the divine right of kings theory. Reminds me of the old Doonesbury character, Honey, an Asian devoted to the Peerless Leader.

No, much as the American experiment has gone amuck, the founders had it right about people who get hold of the power to govern -- they are easily corrupted, self-serving, often stupid, sometimes sociopaths, and to be entrusted with very little.

As the Greeks noted millennia ago, democracies inevitably degenerate into oligarchies, and the oligarchs become corrupt, necessitating an autocrat of some kind to come in and try to clean things up. The oligarchs have clearly gone beyond the Pale (pun intended) in the current U.S. Let's hope the autocrat who eventually comes in will be as benign and even idealistic about the nation as Vladimir Putin, the right guy at the right time to clean up Russia. But for the foreseeable future there is nothing on the horizon but puppets of the oligarchy, like Hillary Clinton.

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Post by Winston » September 18th, 2014, 11:57 am

gsjackson wrote:Leave it to the most free thinking Asian on the planet to resuscitate something akin to the divine right of kings theory. Reminds me of the old Doonesbury character, Honey, an Asian devoted to the Peerless Leader.

No, much as the American experiment has gone amuck, the founders had it right about people who get hold of the power to govern -- they are easily corrupted, self-serving, often stupid, sometimes sociopaths, and to be entrusted with very little.

As the Greeks noted millennia ago, democracies inevitably degenerate into oligarchies, and the oligarchs become corrupt, necessitating an autocrat of some kind to come in and try to clean things up. The oligarchs have clearly gone beyond the Pale (pun intended) in the current U.S. Let's hope the autocrat who eventually comes in will be as benign and even idealistic about the nation as Vladimir Putin, the right guy at the right time to clean up Russia. But for the foreseeable future there is nothing on the horizon but puppets of the oligarchy, like Hillary Clinton.
I never said anything about the divine right of kings, or about royal blood. Read what I wrote again. I was explaining why rulers are smarter than most of us and do not think like us.

What you say is true, power corrupts. However, I think in some ways a monarchy is better than the "fake democracy" that we have in America, because such a rulership is open and public. That makes the monarchs ACCOUNTABLE to the people. If they get too evil or corrupt, they will be overthrown or assassinated. So that keeps them accountable.

But what we have in America is a ruling elite with NO ACCOUNTABILITY because they hide in the shadows behind the facade of puppet politicians and the staged election system. So they can do whatever they want and get away with it, as long as they change the politicians every few years. This kind of rulership is all LIES and DECEPTION, with no accountability. When things go wrong, there is no one to blame but puppet politicians, which will be replaced by other puppet politicians. It's a stupid charade.

There will always be a ruling elite. Napoleon said that, "There will always be kings, even if we don't call them that." Society cannot function without some kind of authority or rulership. So we might as well have an OPEN PUBLIC ruling elite, one that is accountable and can be overthrown if they get out of hand.

The most evil Roman Emperors, such as Caligula or Nero for example, got way out of hand and therefore got assassinated or deposed. It served them right. But we can't do that in America because there is no accountability. The ruling elite, or oligarchy, can do whatever they want and get away with it.

That's why there is no honor in serving in the American military. You are not serving your country in the US military, you are serving corporate elites who hide from you and lie to you. Why would anyone want to serve people who hide and lie? That's stupid.

Furthermore, monarchs love their country and treat it like their own body and soul. But the ruling elite in America that hide in the shadows do not treat America like their own body and soul. They have no loyalty to the country. All they care about is greed, power, control and their own secret nefarious plans that they hide from the public. They have no honor themselves, so who would want to serve them? There is no honor in serving such scum.

At least Roman Emperors, and Kings and Queens, announce their plans to their people and state their reasons for invading other countries. The American elite does not. All it does is lie and deceive.

What do you think?
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Post by gsjackson » September 18th, 2014, 1:01 pm

No, you didn't explain why rulers are smarter than most of us and don't think like us, you opined that they are and do. I went to click on the underlined declarations of fact, and lo and behold, no link to some little study of IQ's, or some such.

There is much merit in the rest of what you say. The transparency of an omnipotent dictator probably would be preferable to the unaccountable and unperceived (by most) shadow government that runs things now.

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Post by Winston » September 18th, 2014, 1:16 pm

gsjackson wrote:No, you didn't explain why rulers are smarter than most of us and don't think like us, you opined that they are and do. I went to click on the underlined declarations of fact, and lo and behold, no link to some little study of IQ's, or some such.

There is much merit in the rest of what you say. The transparency of an omnipotent dictator probably would be preferable to the unaccountable and unperceived (by most) shadow government that runs things now.
It's common sense. Of course leaders are usually going to be smarter than the common people, at least in most cases. If they were only average, they could not be successful leaders. Duh. Come on now.

Go talk to the CEO of a successful company and you will see that such leaders are usually very intelligent, educated, capable, dedicated, and have a great vision. They also have a sixth sense that allows them to make the right decisions. They don't make decisions on logic alone. They definitely are NOT average people.

So if a CEO is like that, then how much more so would leaders of governments or nations be just as smart too. Do you follow my logic? Note that I'm talking about successful leaders of successful organizations.

Try being the leader or director of something, and you will see what I mean. It's a lot harder than you think, and it requires you to acquire traits that you may not already have. Average people cannot run countries or governments, or even organizations. Isn't that obvious?
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Post by gsjackson » September 18th, 2014, 2:23 pm

Winston wrote:
gsjackson wrote:No, you didn't explain why rulers are smarter than most of us and don't think like us, you opined that they are and do. I went to click on the underlined declarations of fact, and lo and behold, no link to some little study of IQ's, or some such.

There is much merit in the rest of what you say. The transparency of an omnipotent dictator probably would be preferable to the unaccountable and unperceived (by most) shadow government that runs things now.
It's common sense. Of course leaders are usually going to be smarter than the common people, at least in most cases. If they were only average, they could not be successful leaders. Duh. Come on now.

Go talk to the CEO of a successful company and you will see that such leaders are usually very intelligent, educated, capable, dedicated, and have a great vision. They also have a sixth sense that allows them to make the right decisions. They don't make decisions on logic alone. They definitely are NOT average people.

So if a CEO is like that, then how much more so would leaders of governments or nations be just as smart too. Do you follow my logic? Note that I'm talking about successful leaders of successful organizations.

Try being the leader or director of something, and you will see what I mean. It's a lot harder than you think, and it requires you to acquire traits that you may not already have. Average people cannot run countries or governments, or even organizations. Isn't that obvious?
Nonsense. And nonsense straight out of a corporate PR department, or a self-help book. Corporate CEO's typically are bland, seemingly innocuous types, who escaped the bloodletting of climbing the corporate ladder by virtue of being somewhat invisible and having a patron. Then they somehow managed to be the ones to get the last stab in to ascend to the top rung. Very few of them are "successful" now at anything other than goosing short term stock share value to pad their own bank accounts.

And surely you're not referring to presidents of the United States. Just to take the last three -- two glib lowlifes with no character and no principles, one moronic lowlife.

I can similarly go through every institution in American life and demonstrate that the so-called leaders are much closer to the worst and the dimmest than the best and the brightest.

You need to read the funnies more Winston. I highly recommend Dilbert. Anyone who's actually worked in some sort of corporate hierarchy with "leaders" at the top -- as you never have -- will recognize the truth there about the stooges in "management." It's called real life. Go sample a bit of it, and come back and tell me about the awesomeness of the "leaders."

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Post by fightforlove » September 18th, 2014, 3:24 pm

Hitler was brilliant on domestic issues, at restoring strength to Germany and taking care of his people, I love his "creators of culture" rhetoric; but he was ultimately a disaster as a military leader. His moves to take over Austria, Czech and even Poland worked; he could have even stopped after invading France and the low countries and enjoyed his spoils, but then his gigantic head began to get in the way. Failing to destroy the RAF or bomb Britain into submission was one thing, but his decision to invade Russia was ludicrous. His Generals knew better and tried to warn him. The only factor that could have changed that outcome is if Japan had also gone to war against Russia. Like Napolean, Alexander, et al, Hitler's zeal that got him to the top was exactly what also inevitably lead to his downfall.
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Post by Jonny Law » September 18th, 2014, 4:08 pm

Dear Winston,

Hitler was a F#*KING ASSH*!E. And unlike the Japanese Emperor did not survive and keep power after World War 2.

I guess it is good to die. Today everyone is still obsessed with Hitler and no one gives a sh!t about Hirohito.

Japan was never invaded by land. The emperor was able to keep power after the war.

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Post by KokujinKrusader » September 18th, 2014, 4:59 pm

Jonny Law wrote:Dear Winston,

Hitler was a F#*KING ASSH*!E. And unlike the Japanese Emperor did not survive and keep power after World War 2.

I guess it is good to die. Today everyone is still obsessed with Hitler and no one gives a sh!t about Hirohito.

Japan was never invaded by land. The emperor was able to keep power after the war.

Emperor Hirohito, April 29, 1901 – January 7, 1989 was the 124th Emperor of Japan according to the traditional order, reigning from December 25, 1926, until his death on January 7, 1989.
This is partially because the world is Eurocentric, and perhaps in part because of the set of people that run the media in the Western world. I am sure if Weeaboos became more prominent and did more than post on forums and jerk to hentai hirohito would be better-known. Just a theory though.
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Post by Moretorque » September 18th, 2014, 7:19 pm

There are good books on this subject and I want to order them before you can no longer get them. From one book I read William Engdahl claims Hitler was just a tool installed for economic reasons and a check against Stalin by the credit monopoly operating out of the US and the CITI.

From my reading his aggression against the Jewish community was welcomed and planned by our rulers to make the state of Israel they were building much more palatable to the Jewish community to accept as a safe haven for Jews.

Europe was a much nicer place to reside than Palestine so in order to make the building of Israel look much more legit the ruling elite decided to literally put a fire under their tales to get them to go there.

If it were not for all the oil in the region more than likely the state of Israel would not be there, look at as a home base setup in the region to take over that whole area of the world for the coming one world dictatorship they are building.
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Post by droid » September 19th, 2014, 12:11 am

Jonny Law wrote:Hitler was a F#*KING ASSH*!E. And unlike the Japanese Emperor did not survive and keep power after World War 2.
What a logical, educated, and informed argument...


Winston wrote:But what we have in America is a ruling elite with NO ACCOUNTABILITY because they hide in the shadows behind the facade of puppet politicians and the staged election system. So they can do whatever they want and get away with it, as long as they change the politicians every few years. This kind of rulership is all LIES and DECEPTION, with no accountability. When things go wrong, there is no one to blame but puppet politicians, which will be replaced by other puppet politicians. It's a stupid charade.
There will always be a ruling elite. Napoleon said that, "There will always be kings, even if we don't call them that." Society cannot function without some kind of authority or rulership. So we might as well have an OPEN PUBLIC ruling elite, one that is accountable and can be overthrown if they get out of hand.
That's priceless Winston, although most people can't get around that in their heads; instead assimilating platitudes and self-deception mechanisms.
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Post by Moretorque » September 19th, 2014, 3:25 am

droid wrote:
Jonny Law wrote:Hitler was a F#*KING ASSH*!E. And unlike the Japanese Emperor did not survive and keep power after World War 2.
What a logical, educated, and informed argument...


Winston wrote:But what we have in America is a ruling elite with NO ACCOUNTABILITY because they hide in the shadows behind the facade of puppet politicians and the staged election system. So they can do whatever they want and get away with it, as long as they change the politicians every few years. This kind of rulership is all LIES and DECEPTION, with no accountability. When things go wrong, there is no one to blame but puppet politicians, which will be replaced by other puppet politicians. It's a stupid charade.
There will always be a ruling elite. Napoleon said that, "There will always be kings, even if we don't call them that." Society cannot function without some kind of authority or rulership. So we might as well have an OPEN PUBLIC ruling elite, one that is accountable and can be overthrown if they get out of hand.
That's priceless Winston, although most people can't get around that in their heads; instead assimilating platitudes and self-deception mechanisms.
America was supposed to be that with the founding documents but our rulers who rule today figured out that they could coopt the whole system and erect a puppet charade to fool the people by having unlimited money via counterfeiting. Without the net I could have never figured it out, I new it had something to do with the debt but did not realize the Federal Reserve was the total heart of the fraudulent government system.
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Post by Luc Furr » September 19th, 2014, 3:58 am

Do people secretly admire Hitler? Perhaps.

People lie, we lie to our families, friends, coworkers and even ourselves.

Here is a wacky example: We so often hear guys saying how disgusting ladyboys are but I was talking with a thai chap last night and he said that of the guys who see and initially walk away disgusted or uninterested in ladyboys about 50% return for sex.

Guess it is like Jack said, we can't handle the truth.

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Post by OutWest » September 19th, 2014, 5:21 am

fightforlove wrote:Hitler was brilliant on domestic issues, at restoring strength to Germany and taking care of his people, I love his "creators of culture" rhetoric; but he was ultimately a disaster as a military leader. His moves to take over Austria, Czech and even Poland worked; he could have even stopped after invading France and the low countries and enjoyed his spoils, but then his gigantic head began to get in the way. Failing to destroy the RAF or bomb Britain into submission was one thing, but his decision to invade Russia was ludicrous. His Generals knew better and tried to warn him. The only factor that could have changed that outcome is if Japan had also gone to war against Russia. Like Napolean, Alexander, et al, Hitler's zeal that got him to the top was exactly what also inevitably lead to his downfall.
A man who led Germany to utter ruin was good at caring for his own people? A man who murdered tens of thousands of Germans because they disagreed with him was good at caring for his own people?

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