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Will Expatriation Become Illegal?

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MrPeabody
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Post by MrPeabody » September 22nd, 2014, 5:03 am

If you live outside of the US, the IRS is a huge burden. You have to file taxes even though you don't make money in the country because your income is taxed worldwide. You need to keep a mail address in the US to receive mail from them. If they send you a letter and you don't receive it, you may wake up one morning having all your accounts frozen. I recently received an IRS letter claiming I owed taxes for 2012 because my broker *f.ucked* up and didn't report the basis. I had to hire a CPA to file an amended return. Another unnecessary expense I didn't need. And having to send mail to a third world country can only be done reliably by expensive services like American Express. So having to have a mail address in the US is annoying and expensive. If someone is permanently in another country it doesn't make sense to remain a citizen and have this unnecessary burden. The US politicians are assholes for not letting people drop their citizenship without penalties when they want too.
Last edited by MrPeabody on September 22nd, 2014, 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.




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Yohan
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Post by Yohan » September 22nd, 2014, 5:04 am

Moretorque wrote: ...I hear is as soon as Americas economy collapse's all Pass Ports are revoked and this is by sometime in 2017
US-citizens will be able to travel abroad in future, no doubt about that - but many are not even interested at all to do so.

Compared to other countries worldwide - for example EU -, only few US-citizens are travelling frequently beyond the US-borders.

Many US-citizens do not even apply for a passport, and about travelling overseas, USA will not restrict its citizens, but will ask for more formalities, and of course for some money.

Travelling as US-citizen in the past was easy and cheap, but nowadays considering the low value of the USD, more expensive air-fares, high international hotel-rates, etc. it is not so cheap anymore, and it will become more expensive, US-authorities might ask for travel related fees/taxes, obligatory overseas health insurance and the list continues...

For sure, ordinary US citizens will face financial problems to travel to far away destinations - maybe only by car to Canada and Mexico...

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Post by Yohan » September 22nd, 2014, 5:15 am

MrPeabody wrote:If someone is permanently in another country it doesn't make sense to remain a citizen and have this unnecessary burden. The US politicians are assholes for not letting people drop their citizenship without penalties when they want too.
It makes maybe sense to keep an address in USA and to visit USA for a few weeks every year, I know US-citizens and also Canadians who are doing this. - Usually overseas somewhere in Asia for retirement to escape the cold winter and for a cheap life, but during spring/summer/autumn-time moving for 1 or 2 months to USA/Canada. Some are also doing part-time work during their stay in USA/Canada. Money is money...

If you are living overseas in an advanced country and can aquire the citizenship of that country after living there for an extended period of time, it makes sense NOT to keep the US-citizenship. I know US-citizens, who switched over to Australian citizenship or EU-citizenship (France, Germany and some others).

However if you are living in a 3rd world country, or developing country in Asia, I think you are better off to keep your US-nationality, you never know what happens and in case of serious problems you can disappear quickly.

Many Asian countries are not really stable or impoverished, like Thailand, Philippines - others might face Islamic problems in future, like Malaysia, some have a politically unsure future, like Taiwan...

To get out of USA is OK, but you should choose only economically advanced countries for your new nationality.

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Post by Moretorque » September 22nd, 2014, 12:26 pm

Taco wrote:
Moretorque wrote:
Word I hear is as soon as Americas economy collapse's all Pass Ports are revoked and this is by sometime in 2017.
Who told you that?
A four star General leaked it to a independent news source and when the country the US goes down economically they have plans to take it by force for the new owners. Foreign and private mercenary troops and he was saying they have all kinds of nasty stuff to thin the herd by the millions at a time if desired.

This is here say internet news.
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Post by Moretorque » September 22nd, 2014, 12:33 pm

Yohan wrote:
Moretorque wrote: ...I hear is as soon as Americas economy collapse's all Pass Ports are revoked and this is by sometime in 2017
US-citizens will be able to travel abroad in future, no doubt about that - but many are not even interested at all to do so.

Compared to other countries worldwide - for example EU -, only few US-citizens are travelling frequently beyond the US-borders.

Many US-citizens do not even apply for a passport, and about travelling overseas, USA will not restrict its citizens, but will ask for more formalities, and of course for some money.

Travelling as US-citizen in the past was easy and cheap, but nowadays considering the low value of the USD, more expensive air-fares, high international hotel-rates, etc. it is not so cheap anymore, and it will become more expensive, US-authorities might ask for travel related fees/taxes, obligatory overseas health insurance and the list continues...

For sure, ordinary US citizens will face financial problems to travel to far away destinations - maybe only by car to Canada and Mexico...
They are going to make traveling more difficult for everyone world wide except themselves, they want to pin all of us into our little districts. Go watch Loki and Beal on Star Trek. Gene Rodenberry's writing staff called all this over 40 Years ago. His staff realized how predictable man was.
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Post by Ghost » September 22nd, 2014, 2:03 pm

Next time I leave may be the last time. Go and don't come back. It's getting dark out there, folks.

I do recall hearing about proposed legislation limiting travel to certain "off limits" countries. And it would have started with countries like Syria, if memory serves.

More realistically, I don't think the daddy-gov will limit travel significantly. To shut that sector down would cost a lot of money. And the daddygov loves money. Not to mention airlines and their profits. Expect prices to go up. Expect more hassle. Expect having to present even more papers, citizen.

I already know about having passports revoked for being in CS arrears. But if any of us on here have that issue, we have bigger problems...

Relatively few Americans travel, and that's good. Don't want them fouling up things abroad even more.

How about an IQ test before allowing travel? Now maybe we could get behind that kind of travel restriction...
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Post by MrPeabody » September 22nd, 2014, 3:06 pm

Yohan wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:If someone is permanently in another country it doesn't make sense to remain a citizen and have this unnecessary burden. The US politicians are assholes for not letting people drop their citizenship without penalties when they want too.
It makes maybe sense to keep an address in USA and to visit USA for a few weeks every year, I know US-citizens and also Canadians who are doing this. - Usually overseas somewhere in Asia for retirement to escape the cold winter and for a cheap life, but during spring/summer/autumn-time moving for 1 or 2 months to USA/Canada. Some are also doing part-time work during their stay in USA/Canada. Money is money...

If you are living overseas in an advanced country and can aquire the citizenship of that country after living there for an extended period of time, it makes sense NOT to keep the US-citizenship. I know US-citizens, who switched over to Australian citizenship or EU-citizenship (France, Germany and some others).

However if you are living in a 3rd world country, or developing country in Asia, I think you are better off to keep your US-nationality, you never know what happens and in case of serious problems you can disappear quickly.

Many Asian countries are not really stable or impoverished, like Thailand, Philippines - others might face Islamic problems in future, like Malaysia, some have a politically unsure future, like Taiwan...

To get out of USA is OK, but you should choose only economically advanced countries for your new nationality.

Getting another citizenship doesn't solve the IRS problem. You have to actually renounce, and the US now makes that very difficult imposing penalties on people renouncing. The US empire wants to keep the slaves within their tax jurisdiction.

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Post by thatkid1 » September 22nd, 2014, 4:07 pm

Word I hear is as soon as Americas economy collapse's all Pass Ports are revoked and this is by sometime in 2017.
I keep hearing this i saw an article on BBC or something a year ago, a russian anaylst saying the way things are going here its definitely gonna collaspe in 2017 unless a major war or some type of event gets in the way

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Post by Rock » September 22nd, 2014, 4:39 pm

MrPeabody wrote:If you live outside of the US, the IRS is a huge burden. You have to file taxes even though you don't make money in the country because your income is taxed worldwide. You need to keep a mail address in the US to receive mail from them. If they send you a letter and you don't receive it, you may wake up one morning having all your accounts frozen. I recently received an IRS letter claiming I owed taxes for 2012 because my broker *f.ucked* up and didn't report the basis. I had to hire a CPA to file an amended return. Another unnecessary expense I didn't need. And having to send mail to a third world country can only be done reliably by expensive services like American Express. So having to have a mail address in the US is annoying and expensive. If someone is permanently in another country it doesn't make sense to remain a citizen and have this unnecessary burden. The US politicians are assholes for not letting people drop their citizenship without penalties when they want too.
Not true. They use your registered residency address overseas for all mailings. I know, I get mail from them in Taiwan and have never had a USA address on file. Another example - there are tons of USA citizens in Canada, many of whom are also Canadian citizens. A high percentage of them do not have a USA address on file with IRS as well. They are required to file taxes and in FBARs (if they have accounts totaling over US$10,000). But a significant percentage still don't.

IRS can only freeze accounts you have in the US or with a US institution though that power will likely be expended to certain cooperating countries in future. If you are a permanent resident in some other country, why not just keep your money there or in a third country?

When you sell a security, the current year broker statement sometimes only reports the revenue. You may have to dig back to the year you bought the security to find the basis (cost). I recommend doing your own taxes with Turbo Tax to make sure these things don't get missed.

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Post by MrPeabody » September 22nd, 2014, 5:17 pm

Rock wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:If you live outside of the US, the IRS is a huge burden. You have to file taxes even though you don't make money in the country because your income is taxed worldwide. You need to keep a mail address in the US to receive mail from them. If they send you a letter and you don't receive it, you may wake up one morning having all your accounts frozen. I recently received an IRS letter claiming I owed taxes for 2012 because my broker *f.ucked* up and didn't report the basis. I had to hire a CPA to file an amended return. Another unnecessary expense I didn't need. And having to send mail to a third world country can only be done reliably by expensive services like American Express. So having to have a mail address in the US is annoying and expensive. If someone is permanently in another country it doesn't make sense to remain a citizen and have this unnecessary burden. The US politicians are assholes for not letting people drop their citizenship without penalties when they want too.
Not true. They use your registered residency address overseas for all mailings. I know, I get mail from them in Taiwan and have never had a USA address on file. Another example - there are tons of USA citizens in Canada, many of whom are also Canadian citizens. A high percentage of them do not have a USA address on file with IRS as well. They are required to file taxes and in FBARs (if they have accounts totaling over US$10,000). But a significant percentage still don't.

IRS can only freeze accounts you have in the US or with a US institution though that power will likely be expended to certain cooperating countries in future. If you are a permanent resident in some other country, why not just keep your money there or in a third country?

When you sell a security, the current year broker statement sometimes only reports the revenue. You may have to dig back to the year you bought the security to find the basis (cost). I recommend doing your own taxes with Turbo Tax to'
make sure these things don't get missed.
In countries like Mexico, you can't use an address because they don't have a reliable mail system, so you still need a US address.

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Post by Array9 » September 22nd, 2014, 6:37 pm

Moretorque wrote:
Taco wrote:
Moretorque wrote:
Word I hear is as soon as Americas economy collapse's all Pass Ports are revoked and this is by sometime in 2017.
Who told you that?
A four star General leaked it to a independent news source and when the country the US goes down economically they have plans to take it by force for the new owners. Foreign and private mercenary troops and he was saying they have all kinds of nasty stuff to thin the herd by the millions at a time if desired.

This is here say internet news.
I usually don't pay attention to what unnamed sources say but V, the Guerrilla Economist, has been on point in terms of what TPTB are planning for the past two years. The full article can be seen here:

http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=1040

The other thing the General said is that when this thing happens, they’re going to shut down all passports. All passports will be cancelled. All your airports and shipping ports will be shut down. He said the recent spat of evidence in terms of gun boats – high speed gun boats, that were sighted in Texas, that were sighted right here in New York and in New Jersey and in California, Louisiana, Florida – that they are being operated by special op covert operational teams. Not the ones you see in the black woods in Texas, where you have the Texas State Police riding in – I am not talking about those – these are different boats. The reason for that is this, folks – usually in a collapse situation, people with means will like to hire a skipper, so they can get off land. These boats are there to ensure that anybody that tries to leave will be sent direct to the bottom.

This is a very high level of covert operational activity, and it is designed to create chaos – and that is the thing that this General has talked about – and he is scared, and this man is not scared of anything. But what is coming upon this country, and what they have planned, has so shaken him to core, that he has contacted me to get out, to leave
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Post by Moretorque » September 23rd, 2014, 12:25 am

Ghost wrote:Next time I leave may be the last time. Go and don't come back. It's getting dark out there, folks.

I do recall hearing about proposed legislation limiting travel to certain "off limits" countries. And it would have started with countries like Syria, if memory serves.

More realistically, I don't think the daddy-gov will limit travel significantly. To shut that sector down would cost a lot of money. And the daddygov loves money. Not to mention airlines and their profits. Expect prices to go up. Expect more hassle. Expect having to present even more papers, citizen.

I already know about having passports revoked for being in CS arrears. But if any of us on here have that issue, we have bigger problems...

Relatively few Americans travel, and that's good. Don't want them fouling up things abroad even more.

How about an IQ test before allowing travel? Now maybe we could get behind that kind of travel restriction...

Ghost the legislation is just a front world wide to make you believe the politician are in charge and they are not, the people with the credit check book are but they have the whole system designed to deflect all attention away from this fact. They do what ever they want and operate outside all laws of all nations.

Do not be surprised if they use some kind of made up pandemic like Ebola as a excuse to round people up world wide who are real informed but the real reason for the pandemic scare could or will be to round the people up who realize the creditor class did this whole con top to bottom and all roads go back to the CITI!.

Daddy GOV does not need our money he has a phony check book remember, the only reason they tax us is to take our wealth away so we cannot fight the system. You need to understand the creditors have unlimited Monopoly play Money.
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Post by Ghost » September 23rd, 2014, 8:45 pm

Moretorque wrote:
Ghost wrote:Next time I leave may be the last time. Go and don't come back. It's getting dark out there, folks.

I do recall hearing about proposed legislation limiting travel to certain "off limits" countries. And it would have started with countries like Syria, if memory serves.

More realistically, I don't think the daddy-gov will limit travel significantly. To shut that sector down would cost a lot of money. And the daddygov loves money. Not to mention airlines and their profits. Expect prices to go up. Expect more hassle. Expect having to present even more papers, citizen.

I already know about having passports revoked for being in CS arrears. But if any of us on here have that issue, we have bigger problems...

Relatively few Americans travel, and that's good. Don't want them fouling up things abroad even more.

How about an IQ test before allowing travel? Now maybe we could get behind that kind of travel restriction...

Ghost the legislation is just a front world wide to make you believe the politician are in charge and they are not, the people with the credit check book are but they have the whole system designed to deflect all attention away from this fact. They do what ever they want and operate outside all laws of all nations.

Do not be surprised if they use some kind of made up pandemic like Ebola as a excuse to round people up world wide who are real informed but the real reason for the pandemic scare could or will be to round the people up who realize the creditor class did this whole con top to bottom and all roads go back to the CITI!.

Daddy GOV does not need our money he has a phony check book remember, the only reason they tax us is to take our wealth away so we cannot fight the system. You need to understand the creditors have unlimited Monopoly play Money.
Yeah, that is a good point. And it can be easy to forget that the money is a symbol used to control us, not in use because they need money. It's like modern day voodoo: controlling the masses, turning them into zombies via the manipulation of symbols.

Still, if I interpret it correctly, TPTB don't want to crash their system as soon as possible. They seem to be taking things gradually. Now, that could be because they want to or because they have to, not being powerful enough to collapse the world overnight. So I expect the screws to keep tightening gradually for some time before a total global collapse.
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Post by thatkid1 » September 23rd, 2014, 9:57 pm

http://rt.com/business/russian-lawmaker-dollar-ban-663/ so it was Russian Law makers predict a dollar collaspe in 2017, I think mid 2015 you will start to see more asset holds and increasing amount of money to renounce your citizenship, which is already happening now but it will be apparent.

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Post by Jester » September 26th, 2014, 8:44 am

Rock wrote:
Not true. They use your registered residency address overseas for all mailings. I know, I get mail from them in Taiwan and have never had a USA address on file.
I hate to say this, but I'm not sure I believe you. Do you have some special website or office that no one else does? I think you're mistaken. No expat anywhere in Latin America, including Belize, gets mail at their foreign home from the IRS. You have to have a US mailing address, or else.
Rock wrote:
Another example - there are tons of USA citizens in Canada, many of whom are also Canadian citizens. A high percentage of them do not have a USA address on file with IRS as well. They are required to file taxes and in FBARs (if they have accounts totaling over US$10,000). But a significant percentage still don't.
Irrelevant. The immediate discussion was not who has to pay, it was whether to keep a US mailing address.
Rock wrote:
IRS can only freeze accounts you have in the US or with a US institution though that power will likely be expended to certain cooperating countries in future. If you are a permanent resident in some other country, why not just keep your money there or in a third country?
+1 Excellent idea.

But... some US earned income is hard to collect into a foreign bank account. For example, mailed checks, ACH transfers, ClickBank, PayPal, Amazon/Kindle, etc. Some of these might pay to a country like Britain, others are US addresses only. OK it may be that Clickbank will "mail" a check to Guatemala, but would you ever see it?

I'm not saying don't renounce, though. In some cases you will still be able to collect by forming a Delaware LLC after renouncing, with a Delaware address, and collect US income into its bank account.

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