Very Bad News For The US

[Taco]

The escalating tension in the Ukraine has the potential to spiral out of control very fast. If Russia and China got together and decided to kill the petrodollar, they could do it almost overnight. So when it comes to Ukraine, it is definitely not the United States that has the leverage.

Very Bad News For The US
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... ted-states

[Devil Dog]

The escalating tension in the Ukraine has the potential to spiral out of control very fast. If Russia and China got together and decided to kill the petrodollar, they could do it almost overnight. So when it comes to Ukraine, it is definitely not the United States that has the leverage.

Very Bad News For The US
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... ted-states

On the other hand, Russia and China hold approximately 25 percent of all foreign-owned U.S. debt, and if they started massively dumping U.S. debt it could rapidly create a nightmare scenario.

Yep, a nightmare scenario for Russia and China too. You really think China wants to massively devalue their dollar holdings and ruin the economy which has enabled their economic rise? Who buys their plastic junk and electronics when the US market goes away?


There is an old saying, "If you owe the bank $100,000 the bank owns you. If you owe the bank $100,000,000 you own the bank." About 15 years ago I saw a distant relative real estate developer file for bankruptcy. He owed the bank many millions. They paid him a huge salary to manage "their" business in an attempt to stem the losses.

[gsjackson]

The escalating tension in the Ukraine has the potential to spiral out of control very fast. If Russia and China got together and decided to kill the petrodollar, they could do it almost overnight. So when it comes to Ukraine, it is definitely not the United States that has the leverage.

Very Bad News For The US
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... ted-states

On the other hand, Russia and China hold approximately 25 percent of all foreign-owned U.S. debt, and if they started massively dumping U.S. debt it could rapidly create a nightmare scenario.

Yep, a nightmare scenario for Russia and China too. You really think China wants to massively devalue their dollar holdings and ruin the economy which has enabled their economic rise? Who buys their plastic junk and electronics when the US market goes away?


There is an old saying, "If you owe the bank $100,000 the bank owns you. If you owe the bank $100,000,000 you own the bank." About 15 years ago I saw a distant relative real estate developer file for bankruptcy. He owed the bank many millions. They paid him a huge salary to manage "their" business in an attempt to stem the losses.

The U.S. market went away seven years ago, when Americans all of a sudden were told they didn't have many thousands of dollars of "equity" in their houses to borrow against. The consumer economy here has been in the tank ever since, and China has been slowly recalibrating the situation in light of their own rapidly slowing economy. And lately we learn that even Walmart has come on hard times.

I don't think China will dump American dollars, and the U.S. can monetize its debt any time it decides it doesn't want to be in peonage to semi-hostile countries and banksters. Though I'm sure everyone in Washington enjoys the irony of borrowing money from China and using it to encircle them militarily.

I don't doubt that Russia can do the U.S. some significant economic harm, so the Ukraine hysteria from neocon and media pinheads needs to run its course very soon. I mean WTF -- we let some reckless neocon wackjob torpedo an EU-brokered truce in Ukraine and orchestrate a full-blown coup, featuring neo-Nazi thugs, right on Putin's doorstep while he's distracted at the Olympics (just like in 2008 when Georgia invaded South Ossetia during the Olympics), in a region that Russia has long made clear is a line not to be crossed by NATO. What did we expect him to do?

[HouseMD]

Russia doesn't want to destabilize the value of oil by trying to unpeg it from the USD, as one of the largest slices of their economy comes from oil exports. They would be shooting themselves in the foot economically. China and Russia are not so close of allies at the moment that China would feel compelled to sacrifice its long term interests, economy, and holdings to secure a petty port for a foreign nation. The Chinese care about one thing- China. And they are playing the long game. While US lawmakers plan for a year or two down the road, the Chinese are planning a generation or two down the road. They will continue to hold their US debt, and possibly collect even more, because this debt serves to ensure they receive consistent income, regardless of the export market, and simultaneously lags their greatest competitor, the USA. The dumping of US reserves is a nuclear option, nearly as much so as the use of actual nuclear weapons, as it would unleash economic damages that would basically result in a total global depression. China doesn't like uncertainty, they don't like risk, and they certainly don't like civil unrest.

More likely we'll end up with a split Ukraine, with Russia keeping Crimea.

[OutWest]

The escalating tension in the Ukraine has the potential to spiral out of control very fast. If Russia and China got together and decided to kill the petrodollar, they could do it almost overnight. So when it comes to Ukraine, it is definitely not the United States that has the leverage.

Very Bad News For The US
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... ted-states

On the other hand, Russia and China hold approximately 25 percent of all foreign-owned U.S. debt, and if they started massively dumping U.S. debt it could rapidly create a nightmare scenario.

Yep, a nightmare scenario for Russia and China too. You really think China wants to massively devalue their dollar holdings and ruin the economy which has enabled their economic rise? Who buys their plastic junk and electronics when the US market goes away?


There is an old saying, "If you owe the bank $100,000 the bank owns you. If you owe the bank $100,000,000 you own the bank." About 15 years ago I saw a distant relative real estate developer file for bankruptcy. He owed the bank many millions. They paid him a huge salary to manage "their" business in an attempt to stem the losses.

The U.S. market went away seven years ago, when Americans all of a sudden were told they didn't have many thousands of dollars of "equity" in their houses to borrow against. The consumer economy here has been in the tank ever since, and China has been slowly recalibrating the situation in light of their own rapidly slowing economy. And lately we learn that even Walmart has come on hard times.

I don't think China will dump American dollars, and the U.S. can monetize its debt any time it decides it doesn't want to be in peonage to semi-hostile countries and banksters. Though I'm sure everyone in Washington enjoys the irony of borrowing money from China and using it to encircle them militarily.

I don't doubt that Russia can do the U.S. some significant economic harm, so the Ukraine hysteria from neocon and media pinheads needs to run its course very soon. I mean WTF -- we let some reckless neocon wackjob torpedo an EU-brokered truce in Ukraine and orchestrate a full-blown coup, featuring neo-Nazi thugs, right on Putin's doorstep while he's distracted at the Olympics (just like in 2008 when Georgia invaded South Ossetia during the Olympics), in a region that Russia has long made clear is a line not to be crossed by NATO. What did we expect him to do?

Where do you get the Nazi/Neo-Nazi connection in the Ukraine? I mean, I guess it could be so, but where do you get that as a fact? Post some proofs so we can make it more factual...
What docs show an extensive Neo-Nazi organization in the Ukraine? When did they spring up?

The Neo-Cons are not the same as Neo-Nazis, so BOTH are active in the Ukraine? What are some of
their organizations? Within the US, some point to Neo-Conservative roots going back to
Leon Trotsky- a Trojan horse within the then limited government groups designed to subvert both "sides" to the statist religion, an implementation of Fabianism. No doubt a lot of old dead things ground up in this baloney.

[HouseMD]

The escalating tension in the Ukraine has the potential to spiral out of control very fast. If Russia and China got together and decided to kill the petrodollar, they could do it almost overnight. So when it comes to Ukraine, it is definitely not the United States that has the leverage.

Very Bad News For The US
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... ted-states

On the other hand, Russia and China hold approximately 25 percent of all foreign-owned U.S. debt, and if they started massively dumping U.S. debt it could rapidly create a nightmare scenario.

Yep, a nightmare scenario for Russia and China too. You really think China wants to massively devalue their dollar holdings and ruin the economy which has enabled their economic rise? Who buys their plastic junk and electronics when the US market goes away?


There is an old saying, "If you owe the bank $100,000 the bank owns you. If you owe the bank $100,000,000 you own the bank." About 15 years ago I saw a distant relative real estate developer file for bankruptcy. He owed the bank many millions. They paid him a huge salary to manage "their" business in an attempt to stem the losses.

The U.S. market went away seven years ago, when Americans all of a sudden were told they didn't have many thousands of dollars of "equity" in their houses to borrow against. The consumer economy here has been in the tank ever since, and China has been slowly recalibrating the situation in light of their own rapidly slowing economy. And lately we learn that even Walmart has come on hard times.

I don't think China will dump American dollars, and the U.S. can monetize its debt any time it decides it doesn't want to be in peonage to semi-hostile countries and banksters. Though I'm sure everyone in Washington enjoys the irony of borrowing money from China and using it to encircle them militarily.

I don't doubt that Russia can do the U.S. some significant economic harm, so the Ukraine hysteria from neocon and media pinheads needs to run its course very soon. I mean WTF -- we let some reckless neocon wackjob torpedo an EU-brokered truce in Ukraine and orchestrate a full-blown coup, featuring neo-Nazi thugs, right on Putin's doorstep while he's distracted at the Olympics (just like in 2008 when Georgia invaded South Ossetia during the Olympics), in a region that Russia has long made clear is a line not to be crossed by NATO. What did we expect him to do?

Where do you get the Nazi/Neo-Nazi connection in the Ukraine? I mean, I guess it could be so, but where do you get that as a fact? Post some proofs so we can make it more factual...
What docs show an extensive Neo-Nazi organization in the Ukraine? When did they spring up?

The Neo-Cons are not the same as Neo-Nazis, so BOTH are active in the Ukraine? What are some of
their organizations? Within the US, some point to Neo-Conservative roots going back to
Leon Trotsky- a Trojan horse within the then limited government groups designed to subvert both "sides" to the statist religion, an implementation of Fabianism. No doubt a lot of old dead things ground up in this baloney.

I was in Ukraine before Euro 2012, and there were gangs of neo-Nazis camping in the streets (their version of Occupy Wall Street) in large tent cities. They made up the majority of the people I met on the streets, and were fiercely anti-Russian and anti-West at the same time. That same large mass of disenfranchised people are likely the ones that form the base of this movement, so I do not doubt that there is a good deal of fascist sentiment in the streets of Kiev right now. What do you expect when you've got a generation of men that are used to their country being a puppet of the East and West, never controlling its own fate or future? If anything, they're fascist for the right reasons (if there is such a thing)- they're Ukrainians for stronger Ukraine that are sick of their country being kicked around.

[gsjackson]

Where do you get the Nazi/Neo-Nazi connection in the Ukraine? I mean, I guess it could be so, but where do you get that as a fact? Post some proofs so we can make it more factual...
What docs show an extensive Neo-Nazi organization in the Ukraine? When did they spring up?

The Neo-Cons are not the same as Neo-Nazis, so BOTH are active in the Ukraine? What are some of
their organizations? Within the US, some point to Neo-Conservative roots going back to
Leon Trotsky- a Trojan horse within the then limited government groups designed to subvert both "sides" to the statist religion, an implementation of Fabianism. No doubt a lot of old dead things ground up in this baloney.

The principal Ukrainian organizations involved in the uprising and reasonably characterized as neo-Nazi are Svoboda, the Social-National party and Right Sector. You can look them up. Anyone paying attention knows that they have played a huge role in the uprising/coup, including much of the violence.

Yes, these groups and others in the uprising are being manipulated by American neoconservatives, who specialize in "regime changes," e.g. Syria, Libya, Iraq. You don't seem to know much about them. There's been quite a lot written about them. You might even read my article on neocon journalists in the Encyclopedia of American Journalism (pub. Routledge). Since they virtually controlled American foreign policy through much of the Bush administration, and are always looking for a chance to get back in the game as the main players, like now, it would well serve you to inform yourself about them. You're right that some of the early neocons, such as Irving Kristol, were Trotskyites, and that background can certainly be seen in their perpetual-revolution, all-war-all-the-time outlook. But the Fabian Society?

Yes, it is ironic that neocons, many of whom are Jewish (including Victoria Nuland, the nitwit apparently most responsible for this coup) and are regarded as having Israel's security as their paramount concern, are in bed with neo-Nazis. Just as it's ironic that they are in bed with Al Quaeda in Syria. But that's what all-war-all-the-time will get you. They are the greatest threat to peace in the world today.

[??????]

President Putin speaks to the press: http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/6763

[C.J.]

Chaos is exactly what the west needs to take over Ukraine. It's ALWAYS been their key to the door. Which is why they're sticking their nose where it doesn't belong and they're offering the illegitimate Ukrainian admins money to stand against Russia.

Meanwhile, Russia's getting down to business. You know something fishy is going on when Putin moves. Unlike Obama, who sits on his ass, hides behind his satanist butt-buddies to threaten other countries and write 100s of EOs a year. When the satanist scum threatens other governments, it's always because they're scared.

I like how Putin answered all those questions and basically quashed the satanist west's credibility in one fell swoop;he was honest, firm and blunt. There's no doubt the western scum are behind this complete farce.

The west will try every trick in the book to discredit Putin, and get as much political power as possible to destroy Russia, their mortal enemy. I hope the west crumbles under their own stupidity.

[Tsar]

Chaos is exactly what the west needs to take over Ukraine. It's ALWAYS been their key to the door. Which is why they're sticking their nose where it doesn't belong and they're offering the illegitimate Ukrainian admins money to stand against Russia.

Meanwhile, Russia's getting down to business. You know something fishy is going on when Putin moves. Unlike Obama, who sits on his a**, hides behind his satanist butt-buddies to threaten other countries and write 100s of EOs a year. When the satanist scum threatens other governments, it's always because they're scared.

I like how Putin answered all those questions and basically quashed the satanist west's credibility in one fell swoop;he was honest, firm and blunt. There's no doubt the western scum are behind this complete farce.

The west will try every trick in the book to discredit Putin, and get as much political power as possible to destroy Russia, their mortal enemy. I hope the west crumbles under their own stupidity.

I agree. I want Putin to give a message to the West and take control of Ukraine. Russia and China could easily crush the Western powers and destroy NATO by destroying the petrodollar. They could destroy the petrodollar and within days America would be in hyperinflation, Europe and it's Euro would collapse, then the Middle Eastern oil nations would have no other choice except to suspend trade in dollars. The United States which is rumored to have little gold and silver reserves would be forced into a hyperinflationary recession. China could close it's doors on all exports destroying the American economy and businesses. South American nations would also suspend trade in dollars. Russia could turn off the pipeline to the EU and freeze most of Europe. Then without the American military might, terrorists would be emboldened to attack Israel, potentially sparking a Middle Eastern war and destroying Israel's greatest defender. Kim Jong-un and North Korea would also be emboldened. Iran could resume working on it's nuclear program and it could challenge America if there was a military conflict. Without the petrodollar and Euro, the Middle Eastern oil nations would also lose some of their greatest customers which could spark populist or radical uprisings deposing of the Western-friendly leaders or they would change their focus to joining the anti-West movement. So China has the best hand in deciding the future of the world, Russia could send Europe into an energy crisis but that would act as a double-edged sword and they need to have China on their side to strike America, and together they can bring down the Western World.

[OutWest]

Where do you get the Nazi/Neo-Nazi connection in the Ukraine? I mean, I guess it could be so, but where do you get that as a fact? Post some proofs so we can make it more factual...
What docs show an extensive Neo-Nazi organization in the Ukraine? When did they spring up?

The Neo-Cons are not the same as Neo-Nazis, so BOTH are active in the Ukraine? What are some of
their organizations? Within the US, some point to Neo-Conservative roots going back to
Leon Trotsky- a Trojan horse within the then limited government groups designed to subvert both "sides" to the statist religion, an implementation of Fabianism. No doubt a lot of old dead things ground up in this baloney.

The principal Ukrainian organizations involved in the uprising and reasonably characterized as neo-Nazi are Svoboda, the Social-National party and Right Sector. You can look them up. Anyone paying attention knows that they have played a huge role in the uprising/coup, including much of the violence.

Yes, these groups and others in the uprising are being manipulated by American neoconservatives, who specialize in "regime changes," e.g. Syria, Libya, Iraq. You don't seem to know much about them. There's been quite a lot written about them. You might even read my article on neocon journalists in the Encyclopedia of American Journalism (pub. Routledge). Since they virtually controlled American foreign policy through much of the Bush administration, and are always looking for a chance to get back in the game as the main players, like now, it would well serve you to inform yourself about them. You're right that some of the early neocons, such as Irving Kristol, were Trotskyites, and that background can certainly be seen in their perpetual-revolution, all-war-all-the-time outlook. But the Fabian Society?

Yes, it is ironic that neocons, many of whom are Jewish (including Victoria Nuland, the nitwit apparently most responsible for this coup) and are regarded as having Israel's security as their paramount concern, are in bed with neo-Nazis. Just as it's ironic that they are in bed with Al Quaeda in Syria. But that's what all-war-all-the-time will get you. They are the greatest threat to peace in the world today.

I know quite well what Neo-Conservatives are in reality, but the term has become a smear term that
is simply used by many to attack anyone who is not "American Progressive Liberal",
when of course, as we discuss here, it has a very specific ideology. I was trying to draw that out.

True traditional "conservatives" want limited government whenever possible, maximized freedom and typically a conservative approach to overseas involvements.

The Neo-Conservative is anything but. They want unlimited government and limitless ambition
overseas.

Good clarity here:http://www.israpundit.com/archives/63594408

It gets set out very clearly. Obviously, a meeting of Nazis and Communists, like Hitler meeting Stalin, is merely two heads of the same statist devil.

So as it ends up, a true classical liberal like the late Daniel Pattrick Moynihan or a conservative like Bob Barr of Texas, end up having no place at the table.
The objective is to reduce the dispute to two competing monsters, so the outcome is assured.

[gsjackson]

I know quite well what Neo-Conservatives are in reality, but the term has become a smear term that
is simply used by many to attack anyone who is not "American Progressive Liberal",
when of course, as we discuss here, it has a very specific ideology. I was trying to draw that out.

True traditional "conservatives" want limited government whenever possible, maximized freedom and typically a conservative approach to overseas involvements.

The Neo-Conservative is anything but. They want unlimited government and limitless ambition
overseas.

Good clarity here:http://www.israpundit.com/archives/63594408

It gets set out very clearly. Obviously, a meeting of Nazis and Communists, like Hitler meeting Stalin, is merely two heads of the same statist devil.

So as it ends up, a true classical liberal like the late Daniel Pattrick Moynihan or a conservative like Bob Barr of Texas, end up having no place at the table.
The objective is to reduce the dispute to two competing monsters, so the outcome is assured.

Agree, except Bob Barr is from Georgia.

[OutWest]

I know quite well what Neo-Conservatives are in reality, but the term has become a smear term that
is simply used by many to attack anyone who is not "American Progressive Liberal",
when of course, as we discuss here, it has a very specific ideology. I was trying to draw that out.

True traditional "conservatives" want limited government whenever possible, maximized freedom and typically a conservative approach to overseas involvements.

The Neo-Conservative is anything but. They want unlimited government and limitless ambition
overseas.

Good clarity here:http://www.israpundit.com/archives/63594408

It gets set out very clearly. Obviously, a meeting of Nazis and Communists, like Hitler meeting Stalin, is merely two heads of the same statist devil.

So as it ends up, a true classical liberal like the late Daniel Pattrick Moynihan or a conservative like Bob Barr of Georgia, end up having no place at the table.
The objective is to reduce the dispute to two competing monsters, so the outcome is assured.

Agree, except Bob Barr is from Georgia.

Yes..that was typo- I met Barr in Georgia...

Thanks for the proofing! LOL

Our National Defense policy must renew a commitment to non-intervention. We are not the world's police force and our long, yet recently tarnished, tradition of respecting the sovereignty of other nations is necessary, not from only a moral standpoint, but to regain the respect of the world as a principled and peaceful nation. Bob Barr.

He has been a vigorous opponent of the patriot act since its inception and has spoken strongly against the other additional violations cooked up by the Bush/Obama administration.

He is hardly a neo-conservative...just using him as an example.
Whether he is totally living up to this is another question, but I have appreciated his positions from a distance mostly.

[zboy1]

I know quite well what Neo-Conservatives are in reality, but the term has become a smear term that
is simply used by many to attack anyone who is not "American Progressive Liberal",
when of course, as we discuss here, it has a very specific ideology. I was trying to draw that out.

True traditional "conservatives" want limited government whenever possible, maximized freedom and typically a conservative approach to overseas involvements.

The Neo-Conservative is anything but. They want unlimited government and limitless ambition
overseas.

Good clarity here:http://www.israpundit.com/archives/63594408

It gets set out very clearly. Obviously, a meeting of Nazis and Communists, like Hitler meeting Stalin, is merely two heads of the same statist devil.

So as it ends up, a true classical liberal like the late Daniel Pattrick Moynihan or a conservative like Bob Barr of Georgia, end up having no place at the table.
The objective is to reduce the dispute to two competing monsters, so the outcome is assured.

Agree, except Bob Barr is from Georgia.

Yes..that was typo- I met Barr in Georgia...

Thanks for the proofing! LOL

Our National Defense policy must renew a commitment to non-intervention. We are not the world's police force and our long, yet recently tarnished, tradition of respecting the sovereignty of other nations is necessary, not from only a moral standpoint, but to regain the respect of the world as a principled and peaceful nation. Bob Barr.

He has been a vigorous opponent of the patriot act since its inception and has spoken strongly against the other additional violations cooked up by the Bush/Obama administration.

He is hardly a neo-conservative...just using him as an example.
Whether he is totally living up to this is another question, but I have appreciated his positions from a distance mostly.

I don't trust Bob Barr, though...They're far better Libertarian spokesman out there than him. And, didn't he support the Patriot Act initially, as well as being a close ally of Newt Gingrich back in the 90s? (I don't trust anyone that close to a slime like Newt...)

[gsjackson]

I certainly wasn't suggesting that all conservatives are neocons. A Pat Buchanan type paleocon could hardly be any more different from neocons, whom they regard as sworn enemies. Same with libertarians. Whatever views they once may have had about domestic policy, neocons are all about war now. And then putting in kleptocrats once the latest "regime change" effort has resulted in a coup.

As for Barr, I wasn't too impressed with him either years ago, but the Iraq invasion somehow brought out the honest and principled citizen in him. Same with that corrupt, almost senile old pol, Byrd of West Virginia. Iraq transformed him into the most eloquent and principled constitutionalist on the Hill. An absolutely incredible transformation.