Marriage rates in America are at an all time low

[cdnFA]

One could make the argument that the US is turning into too different populations.

The well educated wealthier half who do get married.

The less educated poorer underclass who just shack up.

There is a theory that this division is behind the lowering of divorce rates recently, that the sorts of people who are more prone to divorce just don't bother trying as much any more.

I remember having a conversation with two girls who fit the latter profile. Both common law married, minimal post university education, below average incomes, with kids. Their attitudes towards marriage were both sad and very irrational. Much like saying one shouldn't use an umbrella because one could still get wet. Our conversation came about because I pointed out that if I were a woman there is no way I'd plop out kids with a guy without being married and if a guy wasn't willing to make even that minimal level of commitment over common law, to be willing to verbalize intentionally rather than have the government do it for him, he wasn't someone I'd take seriously. Silly me but I thought it was a reasonable idea but I fit in with the first group culturally speaking.


http://time.com/3616569/divorce-rates-a ... the-rocks/

"One big reason that divorce rates began to fall after 1980 was that people, almost always those with less education and less income for the required accouterments of marriage, took the logic of the divorce revolution and ran with it. If marriage and childbearing were no longer tightly linked but rather discreet—even unrelated—life events, and if they were not earning enough to enjoy the middle class status objects enjoyed by their more educated peers, then why marry at all? Why not just have kids without getting married? While college educated women continued to demand a ring before they became mothers, the percentage of poor women having kids outside of marriage was already on the rise; now working class women, many of them temporarily cohabiting with their child’s father, also bypassed the chapel on the way to the maternity ward. "

This quote and other facts regarding divorce to put to question the idea that education = anti marriage. Other information also puts the education = divorce as being unlikely.
Well at least for that vast majority who don't major in women's studies and other non academic fields which should not be in university anyway.

[The_Adventurer]

I don't know that anyone is suggesting education equals anti-marriage or divorce, but I think we can be certain that the majority of women are going to marry up not down. This means a man with equal or greater education and certainly greater income. That puts a large majority of men out of consideration already.

In these educated middle class families, both parents work, often long hours, and put the kids in day care etc. The man who wants a more traditional arrangement with a stay at home wife and mother is pretty much out of luck, both because of economic realities and that educated, high earning women will rarely want to become such.

[Cornfed]

Or to put it another way, women are married to the system now.

[Moretorque]

Or to put it another way, women are married to the system now.

Exactly and the education system now is are you a drone that sucks the states co ck and does what it's told for credits #'s to advance up their pyramid and if not you are to be replaced.


I live in a college town with the supposedly educated and the people here are a bunch of FN idiots!

Pull the plug on the all powerful state and see how fast women need men who know how to do something real rather than chase credits and suck the states a$$ in the process.

The whole system really does make the statement of just how shallow most people are.

The youth are in line to tote it along as well but for how long, some are waking up and realizing this is not working at all. for them...

[cdnFA]

I don't know that anyone is suggesting education equals anti-marriage or divorce, but I think we can be certain that the majority of women are going to marry up not down. This means a man with equal or greater education and certainly greater income. That puts a large majority of men out of consideration already.

In these educated middle class families, both parents work, often long hours, and put the kids in day care etc. The man who wants a more traditional arrangement with a stay at home wife and mother is pretty much out of luck, both because of economic realities and that educated, high earning women will rarely want to become such.

I've seen the "education ruins women" thing on HA before.

The marriage up and down thing is an issue. Women do marry down more than they used to and reality has a way of putting people in line eventually. Apparently though when a woman makes more than a man both parties tend towards being unhappy. Some deal with it fine, others have cultural hang ups that get on them. Guy feels like crap because he is no longer the big man, woman feels dude is a free loader. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it. To quite the movie Pulp Fiction. That voice in your head is pride, f**k pride. I've never been one of those go getter types anyway.

Finding a stay at home wife and mother is pretty hard. Going that route is a pretty crap deal for a female. I know a house husband and he is looking for a small business to run just to get away from his kids for a bit and into the adult world more. He loves his kids but it is good to have something outside of the house, a life. being stuck at home watching kids, I saw my mother do it. It sounds like a mind numbing life. Sadly raising kids is a full time job and the work force doesn't really cater to reducing hours very much, and pure division of labour does work better. When you add to that the risk of divorce which guys here go on about. If you have no work experience and stay at home taking care of the kids, you are in a bit of a precarious position should you find the relationship going south or your dude starts cheating on you. Sure there is alimony and the like but there are also dead beat dads. Also what if hommie dies, most people are under insured. Never mind disability and just plain old losing the job and not being able to find something similar. From what I understand a career high flyer who stays at home will often but not always not be happy with the situation, I mean would you? It increases but does not guarantee a divorce.

[Slick]

With the 60% divorce rate and most women getting alimony and/or child support, a lot of men realize it's not worth getting married to an AW

[The_Adventurer]

I don't know that anyone is suggesting education equals anti-marriage or divorce, but I think we can be certain that the majority of women are going to marry up not down. This means a man with equal or greater education and certainly greater income. That puts a large majority of men out of consideration already.

In these educated middle class families, both parents work, often long hours, and put the kids in day care etc. The man who wants a more traditional arrangement with a stay at home wife and mother is pretty much out of luck, both because of economic realities and that educated, high earning women will rarely want to become such.

I've seen the "education ruins women" thing on HA before.

The marriage up and down thing is an issue. Women do marry down more than they used to and reality has a way of putting people in line eventually. Apparently though when a woman makes more than a man both parties tend towards being unhappy. Some deal with it fine, others have cultural hang ups that get on them. Guy feels like crap because he is no longer the big man, woman feels dude is a free loader. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it. To quite the movie Pulp Fiction. That voice in your head is pride, f**k pride. I've never been one of those go getter types anyway.

Finding a stay at home wife and mother is pretty hard. Going that route is a pretty crap deal for a female. I know a house husband and he is looking for a small business to run just to get away from his kids for a bit and into the adult world more. He loves his kids but it is good to have something outside of the house, a life. being stuck at home watching kids, I saw my mother do it. It sounds like a mind numbing life. Sadly raising kids is a full time job and the work force doesn't really cater to reducing hours very much, and pure division of labour does work better. When you add to that the risk of divorce which guys here go on about. If you have no work experience and stay at home taking care of the kids, you are in a bit of a precarious position should you find the relationship going south or your dude starts cheating on you. Sure there is alimony and the like but there are also dead beat dads. Also what if hommie dies, most people are under insured. Never mind disability and just plain old losing the job and not being able to find something similar. From what I understand a career high flyer who stays at home will often but not always not be happy with the situation, I mean would you? It increases but does not guarantee a divorce.

It's just not a fit for this modern world. It was never a crap deal for the woman in the past. In fact it was the better end of the deal!

When I was growing up, neighbours all knew each other and were friends. They usually had kids of similar ages. The mothers would get together and gossip, watch shows, and bake stuff, and the kids played together.

Also, in that time, kids played outside. Unsupervised kids could go down the store and buy their comic books. Kids would go to the arcade and play Pac-Man. We played in the mountains, even though there were "evil snakes" out there! Parents only needed to get involved if someone started crying or something got burned down. There wasn't all this fear of kidnappings, molesters and all that stuff people deal with, or believe they have to deal with, today. Kids did their own thing and didn't need to be watched at all times. It's still like that here in China.

Watch old movies like The Explorers or the Stephen King movie Stand By Me. Kids ran around and had their own adventures. Thanks to washing machines, dishwashers, vacuum cleaners and formula 409, the "work" of a stay at home mom was easy.

Maybe none of this is possible in USA today, but it can still be had abroad.

[jamesbond]

[When I was growing up, neighbours all knew each other and were friends. They usually had kids of similar ages. The mothers would get together and gossip, watch shows, and bake stuff, and the kids played together.

Also, in that time, kids played outside. Unsupervised kids could go down the store and buy their comic books. Kids would go to the arcade and play Pac-Man. We played in the mountains, even though there were "evil snakes" out there! Parents only needed to get involved if someone started crying or something got burned down.

There wasn't all this fear of kidnappings, molesters and all that stuff people deal with, or believe they have to deal with, today. Kids did their own thing and didn't need to be watched at all times. It's still like that here in China.

I remember growing up, we knew who our neighbors were and we would have our neighbors over for dinner and they would invite us over for dinner. We played "outside" and not inside (like most kids do today). We would walk to the local park and local library unsupervised.

Now people stay indoors and don't socialize with there neighbors at all. Welcome to life in modern day America.

[Adama]

Every guy loves a slut but no one wants to marry one. It goes something like this...

Promiscuous women ---> Low Marriage Rate/High Divorce Rate ---> Low Birth Rate

All the countries I've been to that have low birth rates have tons and tons of unmarriable women. These women are usually very arrogant, demanding and confrontational. In addition, they have no life skills and can't keep the weight off. Philippines birth rate is around 3 births per woman. Which is one of the highest among Christian countries. Most other western countries its around 1.2 births per woman.

Thailand has one of the highest rates of female promiscuity in the world and its birth rate is now under 2 births per women because no one wants to marry them any more.

You almost had me, til I saw that The United States and Mexico are equal, and the US is equal with other countries in South America. I'd also like to read on how they arrived at those statistics. Also, correlation doesn't mean causation. But of course, you still could be right. It would be great if you could post some more thoughts on this, with evidence if you have it.

[The_Adventurer]

Would could equally claim that first world prosperity equals low birth rates. The places with the highest are all poverty ridden.

Taco may not be wrong though. It could just as well be:

First world prosperity ---> Promiscuous women ---> Low Marriage Rate/High Divorce Rate ---> Low Birth Rate

[Eric]

I can't understand the arbitrary rules of this country. It's that marriage is valued - we're all raised up to supposed to do well in school, get good grades - go off to a good college, then marry, then an awesome banging job, and that's it. But along the way all guys talk about is banging chicks and screwing around, taking drugs; nothing that helps you succeed at these things.
And then what's worse is that it seems you get made fun of for trying to do that, do the right thing. Those guys are the hardest hit. It seems like people still praise marriage and the "good life" but out of one side of their mouth they do all the bad things - and really don't care. They just say it because they "have to" - to seem competent, or something.

The women all dress like skanks, act like skanks - yet we're supposed to not want to "hook up" with them, but find a gf. Who wants a f***ing gf or marriage when you can f**k all you want - day and night, any girl available.
Guys here complaining about quality women - well it seems there aren't many dating/relationship material. But is it just me, the tone of the culture does away with that, because what's the point? It's too hard being with one girl when you can bang any girl. It's too hard wanting to find someone special ...when you'd get pulled off, distracted and there's no reward or incentive for it; but we still want it.
I think the grass is greener. We want what we can't/don't have.
People will always complain; it's human nature. We want what's on the other side of the rainbow.

I think much of us face an identity crisis.
It's one thing to be in a straight laced society and trying to bang chicks on the side - because you're not supposed to, and it's novel. I get that. But when it's open market, then suddenly it's not novel. And all the girls are not marriage/relationship material.

This is just how I feel. There are so many things I don't understand about this country. I think the problem arises from trying to hold up an idea we have of how it is/ how we were raised possibly, with the current culture and situation. It's impossible.
You will be miserable. Just go with it, and if you don't want to - get out of it and go somewhere else. I think many of us face that demon of 'what we're supposed to be' still as it gets further and further away, as society gets more degraded, and it becomes impossible to attain. It's kind of like a status we are holding ourselves to. Which is completely opposed to the current culture - so it makes us sad/conflicted. At least, it's how I feel. It's kind of like trying to go in two completely different directions - something's got to give. Then we feel bad because we've done it.
Honestly, I think just go with it. I know I will get attacked for this, but it's the honest wise answer. No sense suffering, needlessly. If you want to get out, go some place else. That's the option.
Any one else feel this way, relate to this?

[Taco]

[Teal Lantern]

Like a well fed gremlin, once you see what it turns into you may be glad you never got one.
http://www.womansdivorce.com/
http://archive.is/RPbpy

Why are muh-soggy-kneed menz afraid of commitment?

[jamesbond]

Here is a good video by Brittany Pettibone explaining why people don't want to get married anymore.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1mHV5BTeco[/youtube]

[Taco]

Here is a good video by Brittany Pettibone explaining why people don't want to get married anymore.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1mHV5BTeco[/youtube]

Men control marriage not women. Its obvious American men are not interested anymore. They don't like to marry promiscuous women.