Rooshv Forum bans discussion of pre-marital sex and other sinful behavior

[Neo]

I went to church today. The map on the wall indicated missionaries all over the face of the earth, same as other churches I've been to send their missionaries out. If God wants the person, they will hear the gospel.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I went to church today. The map on the wall indicated missionaries all over the face of the earth, same as other churches I've been to send their missionaries out. If God wants the person, they will hear the gospel.

Oh so God has to want them first? I guess the poor souls that God did not want are doomed to eternal hell.

Also, many countries, including the one i am in right now, prohibits Christian missionaries and proselytizing. I guess the people here who have their own religions are just majorly screwed according to your logic.

Thank goodness Christianity is dying off! The world does not need such arrogant chauvinism operating under the guise of faith.

[Neo]

I went to church today. The map on the wall indicated missionaries all over the face of the earth, same as other churches I've been to send their missionaries out. If God wants the person, they will hear the gospel.

Oh so God has to want them first? I guess the poor souls that God did not want are doomed to eternal hell.

Also, many countries, including the one i am in right now, prohibits Christian missionaries and proselytizing. I guess the people here who have their own religions are just majorly screwed according to your logic.

Thank goodness Christianity is dying off! The world does not need such arrogant chauvinism operating under the guise of faith.

People like mass murderers, for example, may be ineligible.

Despite bans on soul winning in places such as Israel and M.E. countries, there are other avenues available, such as the internet. That's how I became a Christian, just by viewing YT, and I happened to come across the right one.

Christianity is not disappearing. The mainstream version that most people such as yourself believe to be representative of all Christianity may be on the decline, but people are getting saved everyday. But because these are not Catholics, you will not hear it advertised on CNN. Faith is in the heart, it isn't a matter of joining a church. All a person has to do to get saved and become a Christian is to hear the word and believe it. Nothing else is required. Therefore they cannot be quantified. At least not by humans.

Also for the true Christians (the ones you'd never know about), the battle is on the individual level against sin to keep the commandments. These aren't out trying to change culture.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I went to church today. The map on the wall indicated missionaries all over the face of the earth, same as other churches I've been to send their missionaries out. If God wants the person, they will hear the gospel.

Oh so God has to want them first? I guess the poor souls that God did not want are doomed to eternal hell.

Also, many countries, including the one i am in right now, prohibits Christian missionaries and proselytizing. I guess the people here who have their own religions are just majorly screwed according to your logic.

Thank goodness Christianity is dying off! The world does not need such arrogant chauvinism operating under the guise of faith.

People like mass murderers, for example, may be ineligible.

Despite bans on soul winning in places such as Israel and M.E. countries, there are other avenues available, such as the internet. That's how I became a Christian, just by viewing YT, and I happened to come across the right one.

Christianity is not disappearing. The mainstream version that most people such as yourself believe to be representative of all Christianity may be on the decline, but people are getting saved everyday. But because these are not Catholics, you will not hear it advertised on CNN. Faith is in the heart, it isn't a matter of joining a church. All a person has to do to get saved and become a Christian is to hear the word and believe it. Nothing else is required. Therefore they cannot be quantified. At least not by humans.

Also for the true Christians (the ones you'd never know about), the battle is on the individual level against sin to keep the commandments. These aren't out trying to change culture.

You are now sounding very much like you've been indoctrinated by a cult. Every Christian group claims to be the one "true" Christianity, yet they all are equally lost and misguided. And yes, less and less people around the world identify as Christian every year, especially in Europe and in the developed world. Only in Africa and Latin America is Christianity growing, but there is evidence that it is less for spiritual reasons and more for gaining access to schools, opportunities and other inducements. Africans will remain very animist no matter how "Christian" it becomes. Also, Boko Haram has other plans for "Christians" in Africa.

I say continue to follow what floats your boat. You are free to sail in the sea of cult-like delusion all you wish.

[Neo]

I say continue to follow what floats your boat.

I will.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I say continue to follow what floats your boat.

I will.

For many, religion is a necessary stage of the spiritual growth process until such time that they realize religious faith with all of its arbitrary dogma is not at all necessary for achieving the highest forms of spiritual awareness. Maybe you'll progress past the religious faith point in due time.

[Neo]

I say continue to follow what floats your boat.

I will.

For many, religion is a necessary stage of the spiritual growth process until such time that they realize religious faith with all of its arbitrary dogma is not at all necessary for achieving the highest forms of spiritual awareness. Maybe you'll progress past the religious faith point in due time.

Does discussion of Christianity bother you? I only ask because you seem to quote from Paul frequently. That perplexes me that on the one hand you make quotation of Christian scripture, but on the other hand it seems the discussion of the meaning of those verses bothers you.

Just like some men are MGTOW, some can be Christian. I don't hate MGTOW, and I don't even bother to argue against it. Each man decides on his own what to do with his life and even what to talk about. Live and let live; to each his own.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Does discussion of Christianity bother you? I only ask because you seem to quote from Paul frequently. That perplexes me that on the one hand you make quotation of Christian scripture, but on the other hand it seems the discussion of the meaning of those verses bothers you.

I am anti-religion, not anti-Christianity. Christopher Hitchens called Islam, "The greatest collection of bad ideas in the history of mankind." If that is indeed true, Christianity is a close second.

I am an advocate of men choosing to do what is right for them. However, advocating freedom does not preclude criticizing or debating things with which we do not agree. The problem I have with Christianity is that is anti-intellectual, irrational, it seeks to suspend higher level thought in its adherents, not to mention it contradicts itself all over the place. Take a look as some of your own comments that I paraphrase:

"Oh that's not REAL Christianity," which is just dismissing anything you can't justify as fake a la the No True Scotsman fallacy.

"If you don't believe in the Virginity of Mary you are doomed to hell," which is an Appeal to Negative Consequences fallacy.

The gaping holes in Christianity cause otherwise intelligent people to lapse into these anti-intellectual habits that fall flat with people who know better.

One can cite bible scripture to justify any position no matter how absurd or evil. Some of the greatest evils known to man have been justified by the bible. And some of the most evil men in the Western world (and in my life) were devout Christians who used that label to cloak themselves in fake piety.

Christianity encourages good men to be weak (Jesus taught to turn the other cheek) and evil men powerful (The then Pope officially sanctioned the transatlantic slave trade because Christianizing Africans was more important to him than preventing injustice, abuse, and wholesale theft of labor.)

Christians also consider the bible to be the word of God when it is actually the word of particular men which has been changed so many times over the years and different versions that it is barely the same as the original. Yet, Christianity has people convinced that it is the actual word of God. It is not even close.

But my greatest distaste for Christianity comes from, as I mentioned before, it is virulently gynocentric in practice even if not in scripture. What do I mean?

Paul Elam explains it far better than I:


In my view, Christianity was designed for illiterate, uneducated, Middle Eastern peoples of the first century who needed simplistic guidance and context for life and its many complexities. It has no place for educated, erudite, and thinking peoples who can come to their own rational conclusions about life.

[Neo]

Does discussion of Christianity bother you? I only ask because you seem to quote from Paul frequently. That perplexes me that on the one hand you make quotation of Christian scripture, but on the other hand it seems the discussion of the meaning of those verses bothers you.

I am anti-religion, not anti-Christianity. Christopher Hitchens called Islam, "The greatest collection of bad ideas in the history of mankind." If that is indeed true, Christianity is a close second.

I am an advocate of men choosing to do what is right for them. However, advocating freedom does not preclude criticizing or debating things with which we do not agree. The problem I have with Christianity is that is anti-intellectual, irrational, it seeks to suspend higher level thought in its adherents, not to mention it contradicts itself all over the place. Take a look as some of your own comments that I paraphrase:

"Oh that's not REAL Christianity," which is just dismissing anything you can't justify as fake a la the No True Scotsman fallacy.

"If you don't believe in the Virginity of Mary you are doomed to hell," which is an Appeal to Negative Consequences fallacy.

The gaping holes in Christianity cause otherwise intelligent people to lapse into these anti-intellectual habits that fall flat with people who know better.

One can cite bible scripture to justify any position no matter how absurd or evil. Some of the greatest evils known to man have been justified by the bible. And some of the most evil men in the Western world (and in my life) were devout Christians who used that label to cloak themselves in fake piety.

Christianity encourages good men to be weak (Jesus taught to turn the other cheek) and evil men powerful (The then Pope officially sanctioned the transatlantic slave trade because Christianizing Africans was more important to him than preventing injustice, abuse, and wholesale theft of labor.)

Christians also consider the bible to be the word of God when it is actually the word of particular men which has been changed so many times over the years and different versions that it is barely the same as the original. Yet, Christianity has people convinced that it is the actual word of God. It is not even close.

But my greatest distaste for Christianity comes from, as I mentioned before, it is virulently gynocentric in practice even if not in scripture. What do I mean?

Paul Elam explains it far better than I:


In my view, Christianity was designed for illiterate, uneducated, Middle Eastern peoples of the first century who needed simplistic guidance and context for life and its many complexities. It has no place for educated, erudite, and thinking peoples who can come to their own rational conclusions about life.

So if I am to understand you correctly, a person such as yourself might consider Christianity to be offensive to his intellect and wisdom? Is that it?

I know before you have likened religion and the existence of eternity to fictional characters, such as Santa Claus, et al.

But I wonder, in reality, what would you say if eternity and Christ turn out to be real and true after death? What would you say if it really is true? Without referring to fiction or comparing it to fiction. I mean if it really were real, and there was no going back. This is similar to the question that Ben Stein asks one of those major atheist debaters years ago.

[Ghost]

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[Contrarian Expatriate]

So if I am to understand you correctly, a person such as yourself might consider Christianity to be offensive to his intellect and wisdom? Is that it?

No. I am not "offended" by religious faiths. However, I find most of them objectionable because they are not rational and they dictate people's behavior and beliefs under terroristic threats of "burning in hell," "eternal damnation" and other fear tactics that do not stand up under scrutiny. The fact that faiths like Christianity impose these terroristic fears on children is particularly evil.

I know before you have likened religion and the existence of eternity to fictional characters, such as Santa Claus, et al.

In this question, you are creating a fact out of thin air as Christians often do to make their points. You actually do not know about my views on the existence an afterlife so please do not assume what my views are in that regard. However, I do liken Christian tales and myths to that of "culturally acceptable lies" that are fed to children like Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, and The Tooth Fairy. Both are introduced early in life, but the Christian ones are enforced and reinforced throughout adulthood by a variety of means. Other religions do the similar conditioning strategies to keep adherents connected to the controlled flocks, but Christianity has particularly toxic strategies to do so. There are shunnings, shamings, and suicides that take place with people who try to break away from Christianity. Deep down these people know something is greatly amiss, but they cannot withstand the social consequences of breaking away. Judaism and Islam are no better at times.

But I wonder, in reality, what would you say if eternity and Christ turn out to be real and true after death? What would you say if it really is true? Without referring to fiction or comparing it to fiction. I mean if it really were real, and there was no going back. This is similar to the question that Ben Stein asks one of those major atheist debaters years ago.

Your question reveals that your faith is based on your being imbued with FEAR and that is not a good look but it is common among Christians. I can tell you this. If your concept of "Christ" really turned out to be the one true God and all other belief systems turned out to be false, I am not sure I would even be interested in associating with such a deity since only .01% of the world's population (those that share your beliefs) would be eligible to partake in that "Great Reward." If your Christ is really God, he is doing a heck of a job staying secret, hidden, and concealed so that people cannot be convinced of his existence thru evidential proof. What kind of God is that who seeks to stay hidden and concealed while demanding 100% blind faith? It is a contrived sham and you should be ashamed of yourself for falling for this malarkey originating from first century simpletons.

I do not believe that your "Christ" is in any way God or a supreme being. That is simply a myth that has been successfully imposed on you. Get out in the world more. Meet people from other faiths and traditions and understand that their faiths are just as strong (or stronger) than yours but they have been fed a different set of stories for which they have fallen.

[Neo]

So if I am to understand you correctly, a person such as yourself might consider Christianity to be offensive to his intellect and wisdom? Is that it?

No. I am not "offended" by religious faiths. However, I find most of them objectionable because they are not rational and they dictate people's behavior and beliefs under terroristic threats of "burning in hell," "eternal damnation" and other fear tactics that do not stand up under scrutiny. The fact that faiths like Christianity impose these terroristic fears on children is particularly evil.

I know before you have likened religion and the existence of eternity to fictional characters, such as Santa Claus, et al.

In this question, you are creating a fact out of thin air as Christians often do to make their points. You actually do not know about my views on the existence an afterlife so please do not assume what my views are in that regard. However, I do liken Christian tales and myths to that of "culturally acceptable lies" that are fed to children like Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, and The Tooth Fairy. Both are introduced early in life, but the Christian ones are enforced and reinforced throughout adulthood by a variety of means. Other religions do the similar conditioning strategies to keep adherents connected to the controlled flocks, but Christianity has particularly toxic strategies to do so. There are shunnings, shamings, and suicides that take place with people who try to break away from Christianity. Deep down these people know something is greatly amiss, but they cannot withstand the social consequences of breaking away. Judaism and Islam are no better at times.

But I wonder, in reality, what would you say if eternity and Christ turn out to be real and true after death? What would you say if it really is true? Without referring to fiction or comparing it to fiction. I mean if it really were real, and there was no going back. This is similar to the question that Ben Stein asks one of those major atheist debaters years ago.

Your question reveals that your faith is based on your being imbued with FEAR and that is not a good look but it is common among Christians. I can tell you this. If your concept of "Christ" really turned out to be the one true God and all other belief systems turned out to be false, I am not sure I would even be interested in associating with such a deity since only .01% of the world's population (those that share your beliefs) would be eligible to partake in that "Great Reward." If your Christ is really God, he is doing a heck of a job staying secret, hidden, and concealed so that people cannot be convinced of his existence thru evidential proof. What kind of God is that who seeks to stay hidden and concealed while demanding 100% blind faith? It is a contrived sham and you should be ashamed of yourself for falling for this malarkey originating from first century simpletons.

I do not believe that your "Christ" is in any way God or a supreme being. That is simply a myth that has been successfully imposed on you. Get out in the world more. Meet people from other faiths and traditions and understand that their faiths are just as strong (or stronger) than yours but they have been fed a different set of stories for which they have fallen.

It really doesn't matter to me what your religious persuasion is. Forgive me for any assumption. I was only going by what I could glean from your posts.

I couldn't determine if you had actually answered the question, "What would you say?" That's what's got me curious. What if it happens to be real, CE?

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I couldn't determine if you had actually answered the question, "What would you say?" That's what's got me curious. What if it happens to be real, CE?

Christ as the supreme being of the universe is not real. You can be sure of that.

But as I mentioned before, I am not sure I would even want to be associating with Christ if he turned out to be the supreme being of the universe when only .01% of the world's population (those that share your rare Christian beliefs) would be eligible to escape what you believe are the fires of hell.

Again, shame on you for believing all that out of some irrational fear that it just might really be true. Brainwashed....

[Neo]

An argument about religion on HA that is ONLY four pages

I have omitted all hostility and scorn.

[Neo]

I couldn't determine if you had actually answered the question, "What would you say?" That's what's got me curious. What if it happens to be real, CE?

Christ as the supreme being of the universe is not real. You can be sure of that.

But as I mentioned before, I am not sure I would even want to be associating with Christ if he turned out to be the supreme being of the universe when only .01% of the world's population (those that share your rare Christian beliefs) would be eligible to escape what you believe are the fires of hell.

Again, shame on you for believing all that out of some irrational fear that it just might really be true. Brainwashed....

By the way, I never believed in hell either. I simply heard the word, that belief in Christ brings eternal salvation, and I believed it. There never was any fear of hell.

However, now being a believer, I recognize the reality of its existence.