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Why are nonconformists more open/friendly to strangers than conformists?

Discuss deep philosophical topics and questions.

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Winston
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Post by Winston » July 15th, 2012, 2:37 am

Have any of you noticed that nonconformists like talking about deep topics whereas conformists prefer trivial superficial subjects?

It's like they are on different wavelengths, so that when you put them together, even if they are polite to each other, there is like this psychological wedge between them.

The result is that they both feel like there's no chemistry between them, and usually don't make arrangements to meet again unless they have to.

Any of you notice this? Any of you experience this?

Could this be why many ordinary people in Taiwan and America seem to dislike me for no reason?
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Winston
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Post by Winston » July 16th, 2012, 10:47 am

Additional questions:

- I find that many mainstream people are turned off by me or my vibe for some reason, even if I don't do anything wrong. Is it because when a nonconformist and a conformist get together, there is this psychological wedge between them because they are on different frequencies? Nonconformists aren't afraid of what others think of them, and like to talk about deep topics and think about them, and are less materialistic and less judgmental. But on the other hand, conformists prefer superficial/shallow topics, are more materialistic and judgmental, and care what others think of them. The two are not going to naturally jive. So when together they will feel like there is no chemistry. Know what I mean?

- Could it also be that a nonconformist acts as a mirror to a conformist, making the conformist see himself/herself for what he/she really is, a programmed slave, which makes makes him/her uncomfortable? Does a conformist view a nonconformist as a psychological threat? After all, how can a conformist perceive and understand a nonconformist, or categorize them in a conformist world? They can't, because the nonconformist represents something that doesn't exist to a conformist and isn't possible. So the conformist will either be dumbfounded or threatened in some way.

- If you become a nonconformist and are liberated from caring about what others think of you, and are nonjudgmental, nonmaterialistic, deep, etc. are you condemned to a life of loneliness? Even if you find like minded others, I would imagine that much or most of your life is still going to be spent in loneliness, unless you live in a community of like minded people or live with a similar partner. But if you travel or move around a lot, and meet other travelers, you have a high chance of meeting other nonconformists of course, since perpetual traveler types do tend to be nonconformist types.

- Have you ever heard of anyone becoming a nonconformist (in mind and spirit, not just in label) and then ended up returning to being a conformist again? Is that possible? Can an awakened person fall asleep again and forget their awakened state?
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Post by zacb » August 10th, 2012, 4:16 am

-Body energy (no sun crystals, just natural energy we exert, like most things), destiny (and not in a magical Disney way), body language, spirit of the times, the current paradigm they are programmed in, their life experiences.

- I imagine in some ways, maybe. In politics as an example, the two parties don't want dissent, so they shut up third parties, since it is a mirror into their souls. Organizationally, yes. Individually, no. 70% of people don't worry about anything important in the least.

-Not per se. It is how you view it. Steve Jobs was an outcast, then with a bit of luck and a ton of genius, he created the highest valued company in the world. Not bad for a hippie in a garage.

-Someone who was a non-conformist and then switches is what we call sell outs. It happens all the time in music, politics, and other professions.
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Post by Jester » August 11th, 2012, 7:23 am

This is a sharp, high-level discussion. I like your questions, Winston, and ZacB's response as well.

My contribution (you've heard it from me before....)
Winston wrote:
- I find that many mainstream people are turned off by me or my vibe for some reason, even if I don't do anything wrong. Is it because when a nonconformist and a conformist get together, there is this psychological wedge between them because they are on different frequencies?
The answer is it to take acting classes.

Fire was of no damn use to anyone till Prometheus brought it down from Mt. Olympus to mortal man. Now it keeps us warm, cooks our food, powers our machinery. All ideas are like that. Until you bring them down to a level people can understand, COMMUNICATE, get THROUGH to people, you may have Olympian wisdom, but you are no earthly good.

Or to put it another way...

If a branch falls in the forest, and noone hears it -- there was no sound.

Or to put it another way...

Sign up for acting class. Practice using what you learn when you make videos. And practice acting also via doing karioke, which I know you have there in TW.

I am not suggesting this because there is anything wrong with you. I am suggesting this because the mission of the thinker is not to think, but to illuminate OTHERS.

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Post by momopi » August 11th, 2012, 5:17 pm

Winston wrote:Additional questions:
- I find that many mainstream people are turned off by me or my vibe for some reason, even if I don't do anything wrong. Is it because when a nonconformist and a conformist get together, there is this psychological wedge between them because they are on different frequencies? Nonconformists aren't afraid of what others think of them, and like to talk about deep topics and think about them, and are less materialistic and less judgmental. But on the other hand, conformists prefer superficial/shallow topics, are more materialistic and judgmental, and care what others think of them. The two are not going to naturally jive. So when together they will feel like there is no chemistry. Know what I mean?
<snip>
- If you become a nonconformist and are liberated from caring about what others think of you, and are nonjudgmental, nonmaterialistic, deep, etc. are you condemned to a life of loneliness? Even if you find like minded others, I would imagine that much or most of your life is still going to be spent in loneliness, unless you live in a community of like minded people or live with a similar partner. But if you travel or move around a lot, and meet other travelers, you have a high chance of meeting other nonconformists of course, since perpetual traveler types do tend to be nonconformist types.

1. Prudence in conversation is knowing appropriate topics for the time/place and audience. For example, the first date is probably not a good time to start a conversation about death and dying.

2. Temperance in conversation is knowing when you have far more knowledge on a given subject, you will refrain from leading the conversation to where others cannot (or unwilling to) follow. For example, I like prime rib, but I wouldn't discuss the finer points of seasoning and cooking a prime rib to a vegetarian.

3. To judge is not about being judgmental, it's to know the proper moderation between self-interest and the rights/needs of others. In conversation, you need moderate between what you want to say, and listen to what others want to say. A conversation is not a lecture or debate.

A nonjudgmental person does not see others as being conformist/nonconformist, shallow, materialistic, etc. Understand that a nonjudgmental person can act without prejudice or compulsion, but he is also capable of apathy and indifference.

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Post by Jester » August 11th, 2012, 8:53 pm

momopi wrote:

1. Prudence in conversation is knowing appropriate topics for the time/place and audience. For example, the first date is probably not a good time to start a conversation about death and dying.

2. Temperance in conversation is knowing when you have far more knowledge on a given subject, you will refrain from leading the conversation to where others cannot (or unwilling to) follow. For example, I like prime rib, but I wouldn't discuss the finer points of seasoning and cooking a prime rib to a vegetarian.

3. To judge is not about being judgmental, it's to know the proper moderation between self-interest and the rights/needs of others. In conversation, you need moderate between what you want to say, and listen to what others want to say. A conversation is not a lecture or debate.

A nonjudgmental person does not see others as being conformist/nonconformist, shallow, materialistic, etc. Understand that a nonjudgmental person can act without prejudice or compulsion, but he is also capable of apathy and indifference.
Wisdom.

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Post by noog » August 20th, 2012, 4:39 am

I like this thread. As I've gone through stages in life, I've become more and more of a non-conformist. The big first step was turning away from Christianity and accepting humanism and agnostic principles. Then it was a disconnection from the political process - I haven't voted since '92. Then it was giving up drinking and becoming sXe in 2009. And now comes the next one - potentially proposing to a woman half my age halfway around the world. If I can teach anything by example to my kids, I hope it's to think for youself and never be afraid if the way you want to live is not conventional.

I really don't know there's a strong connection between being a non-conformist and being more social and open. I guess it depends on the situation. There's a lot of conformists in the world and I sometimes don't feel it's necessary to be real social with them.

I think a common denominator for Winston, myself and others though that are non-conformists is defintely a childhood and background that included rejection, alienation and bullying. As some of those wounds have healed over the years, it has given me a bigger heart and made me more compassionate towards people who are going through strife because they're different. I think people of our mindset can be more willing to reach out and help people who need to pull through and find themselves.
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Post by Winston » August 15th, 2014, 1:40 pm

Check this out. Steve Hoca made the same observation that I did in this thread about loners/nonconformists being more open, friendly and social with strangers than conformists. He sent me this email long ago that I just found now. Wow great minds think alike!

Steve Hoca:
"Hello Winston:

Here is something I have noticed about loners versus people who appear to be socially connected. This won't take long to discuss.

Loners tend to be people that will talk to and socialize with just about anyone who approaches them or meets them in public places like museums and restaurants and fun parks, etc. However, the so-called socially connected people that you see in public with friends and family tend to only want to socialize with their little clique. Most people who go out alone a lot still want to find people to socialize with. A guy, for example, who goes out the the bar all by himself is still open game for socializing with just about anyone (men, women, old people, handicapped people, etc.), whereas the people who go to the bars in groups are more apt to stay within their little social circle. The paradox is this: the loners get the bad wrap for being antisocial, when in fact, it is the so-called socially connected people that behave like the people they accuse loners of behaving like. Does that make sense? I realize there are shades of grey to this statement and debate. However, I base this on the fact that when I have gone out alone, and when I have met other guys who are also out alone, they tend to socialize much more than the socially connected crowd does. I think this irritates me. I believe I am closer to the truth on this matter too.

Talk to you soon Winston.

Steve"
My friend Jeff (known as WorldTraveler on this forum) concurred, saying:
"Steve, I think loner may be the wrong word. Loner has an antisocial connotation. I think what you mean is independent people who are not afraid to do things by themselves. I would never refer to myself as loner, but I am independent. Like, I went to FL alone for Memorial weekend because nobody wanted to go. I find it hard to find good friends that have the same interests as me.
I do agree with you 100%, the independent, or loner as you call them, do tend to try to meet new people wherever they go. the "social" people who hang in groups are much more of the conformist type. They need their group for support and would never do something alone. They're not wanting to talk to strangers is just their insecurity and why they are in groups."
Again, so true huh?
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Post by jamesbond » August 16th, 2014, 1:34 am

noog wrote:I think a common denominator for Winston, myself and others though that are non-conformists is defintely a childhood and background that included rejection, alienation and bullying. As some of those wounds have healed over the years, it has given me a bigger heart and made me more compassionate towards people who are going through strife because they're different. I think people of our mindset can be more willing to reach out and help people who need to pull through and find themselves.
I also can sympathize with people who are not in the mainstream due to my dysfunctional childhood. I think coming from a screwed up family has actually helped me in the long run. I am not a conformist, I think for myself.

I came from a very strict catholic home and had to endure some childhood abuse. I am a "recovering catholic" which means the brainwashing I received as a child regarding religion is now just a memory. I believe in God but I have not found a church yet (either catholic or protestant) that I feel comfortable in.

Being a conformist is easy, all you have to do is agree with what most people say. Being a non conformist is difficult, they are the ones who are thought of as being "weird" and "unpopular" because they think for themselves.
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Re: Why are nonconformists more open/friendly to strangers than conformists?

Post by Winston » July 12th, 2018, 8:42 pm

Isn't it ironic guys, that nonconformists are supposed to be introvert types, and conformists with herd mentality are supposed to be extroverts. And society claims extroverts are more social with others than introverts are. Yet in reality it's exactly the opposite? I don't get that. It's confusing. I think this whole extrovert vs introvert thing is a false dichotomy and false reality.

Btw here's an example of what I mean. Check out this freespirit hippie YouTuber named Koi Fresco. He's a hippie type with long hair, looks like Jesus, a spiritual seeker, and New Age type. Very bohemian and nonconformist obviously. The type of guy you would see at a Rainbow Gathering. Look at him below.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=koi+fresco

As you can see, if you saw that guy out in public, he would be very approachable and open and glad to talk to you. There would be no ice wall or awkwardness to talk to him. You could talk to him freely and openly, as if he were an old buddy you've known for years. But of course, you cannot do that with mainstream Americans or Chinese who are much more strict and narrow minded, and trying to be "normal". See what I mean?

Here are his videos against wage slavery and materialism. As you can see in the cover images of the videos below, he's totally Bohemian and counter-culture. People like this are always willing to talk to strangers, even us. Look how open and comfortable they are in their own skin and with being themselves.



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Re: Why are nonconformists more open/friendly to strangers than conformists?

Post by Moretorque » July 12th, 2018, 9:38 pm

Most of the big material ism came from the fraudulent money system of the last 45 years here in the us. Of course this was done on purpose to run the debt up so the commies could come get the land for the debt.

It appears the Donald may have thrown a monkey wrench in this plan by the counterfeiting Khazars......
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Re: Why are nonconformists more open/friendly to strangers than conformists?

Post by TheLight954 » September 20th, 2018, 5:04 am

I think the school system and the economic system turn people into an animal mentality rather than an intellectual mentality.

Nonconformists see through this and don't care about these so-called "social norms".

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