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Free Will is an Illusion - Sam Harris

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Teal Lantern
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Free Will is an Illusion - Sam Harris

Post by Teal Lantern » February 20th, 2013, 8:24 am

A belief in free will touches nearly everything that human beings value. It is difficult to think about law, politics, religion, public policy, intimate relationships, morality—as well as feelings of remorse or personal achievement—without first imagining that every person is the true source of his or her thoughts and actions. And yet the facts tell us that free will is an illusion.

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Billy
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Post by Billy » February 20th, 2013, 1:48 pm

didn´t watch it. free will is debunked long time ago. welcome to zombieland. by the way what does teal lantern mean?

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Post by abcdavid01 » February 20th, 2013, 5:58 pm

So what? We have functional free will. The brain cannot examine its own changing neural pathways in real time.
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Post by Winston » February 20th, 2013, 6:28 pm

There is no way to prove or disprove free will. We could all be like characters on a DVD movie playing when the whole film has already been made and set. There's no way to disprove that.

Screw Sam Harris though. He is closed minded and an Atheist who ignores all data that contradict his beliefs. Some of his points are good, but he's too biased toward the Atheist side and doesn't consider contrary evidence. He also talks really fast and articulate, which makes him sound very intellectual and intimidating in logic and debate. But he only debates weak people who aren't good at debate. He should try debating me.
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Post by Billy » February 20th, 2013, 10:47 pm

winston, come on. what do you know about science? - and how do you explain that you write always same stuff over and over again. very repetitive isn´t it an indicator against free will.

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Post by WiseTruth » February 20th, 2013, 11:00 pm

Billy wrote:winston, come on. what do you know about science? - and how do you explain that you write always same stuff over and over again. very repetitive isn´t it an indicator against free will.
LOL Good one, Billy :lol:

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Post by noog » February 21st, 2013, 1:04 am

I like what Sam has to say and I think I see the point he is trying to make. He is saying, I think, that you have to consider a person's actions happening in a collective context.

You cannot get caught up in another person's actions because you do not know all the factors in play. It's impossible. The only person you really know is yourself, and even then only up to a point because of your subconcious.

It's best to come to terms with other people's actions and just let go. Do you agonize whether to forgive or forget the grizzly bear the way you would a human? No. So just let it go, don't get caught up in blame games or trying to figure out what that grizzly bear was thinking. Just move on.

This discussion is relevant to the problems of Western Women. Rather than hating them personally, I am more sickened by the culture, parenting and various conditions that lead them to a point to behave they way they do. Could you ever expect a mean western woman to have a change of heart overnight and do a 180 and look for the right men and quit playing games? No chance. You may see a woman talk big and say "things are gonna change, I'm gonna stop this self-destructive behavior". But it's really really an uphill battle and trying to defy narrow odds. So be very very skeptical about a mean western woman saying she's turned the corner.

Think about it - a mean western woman has likely been quite unlucky to be born in the wrong culture and bad parenting and no one to keep her from going down the path of being a total bitch. What if she was born in a polite and traditional culture? It's almost a given you would be dealing with a different woman. That's why I reached a point where I realized that personally hating all these women is futile, you just need to plan accordingly and give yourself a much better chance of finding someone better.
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Post by Teal Lantern » February 21st, 2013, 5:00 am

noog wrote:I like what Sam has to say and I think I see the point he is trying to make. He is saying, I think, that you have to consider a person's actions happening in a collective context.

You cannot get caught up in another person's actions because you do not know all the factors in play. It's impossible. The only person you really know is yourself, and even then only up to a point because of your subconcious.

It's best to come to terms with other people's actions and just let go. Do you agonize whether to forgive or forget the grizzly bear the way you would a human? No. So just let it go, don't get caught up in blame games or trying to figure out what that grizzly bear was thinking. Just move on.

This discussion is relevant to the problems of Western Women. Rather than hating them personally, I am more sickened by the culture, parenting and various conditions that lead them to a point to behave they way they do. Could you ever expect a mean western woman to have a change of heart overnight and do a 180 and look for the right men and quit playing games? No chance. You may see a woman talk big and say "things are gonna change, I'm gonna stop this self-destructive behavior". But it's really really an uphill battle and trying to defy narrow odds. So be very very skeptical about a mean western woman saying she's turned the corner.

Think about it - a mean western woman has likely been quite unlucky to be born in the wrong culture and bad parenting and no one to keep her from going down the path of being a total bitch. What if she was born in a polite and traditional culture? It's almost a given you would be dealing with a different woman. That's why I reached a point where I realized that personally hating all these women is futile, you just need to plan accordingly and give yourself a much better chance of finding someone better.
Agreed. Don't have to hate the "bears" -- but don't have to date those f@^&ers, either. :wink:
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Re:

Post by Winston » June 8th, 2018, 4:56 pm

Billy wrote:
February 20th, 2013, 10:47 pm
winston, come on. what do you know about science? - and how do you explain that you write always same stuff over and over again. very repetitive isn´t it an indicator against free will.
LOL I just repeat the truth that I see. But everyone does too, including you. However I'm willing to change my beliefs if the evidence calls for it. But you are not. That's the difference between us. Your beliefs are FIXED and atheistic. Like most people you prefer to preserve your beliefs, rather than follow evidence or seek higher truth outside of your little box. And believe me, there is a lot of data that does NOT fit into your beliefs and paradigm.

Well actually, after examining the evidence and examples, I agree that yeah, free will is MOSTLY an illusion, but not 100 percent an illusion.

Btw, if you don't believe in free will, why are you so big on self-improvement? How can you improve if you have no free will? Why even bother or try? lol. See the paradox and irony? lol

Anyway, I agree that free will is mostly an illusion, and that most of what we do comes from our instincts, subconscious mind, external and internal stimuli, and other factors. For example, a classic question is this: If you are thirsty and get drink something to drink, is that an act of free will?

Also, love and attraction is not a choice or conscious decision. A man either triggers a woman's love, feelings and emotions, or he doesn't. There's no free will in it. Same with a man's love for a woman. She either triggers his love or she doesn't. It's not a free will decision based on logical decisions or conscious choice.

However, like Buddhists say, we can learn to be mindful and watch our thoughts so we can learn how to change them and not react so automatically. And so we can learn the causes of our actions so we can try to alter the causes. Even Sam Harris will admit that, since he practices meditation and Zen. But this is a gradual process that takes hard work and practice of course.
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Re: Free Will is an Illusion - Sam Harris

Post by Winston » June 8th, 2018, 5:06 pm

A good video explaining why most of what we do is NOT a result of free will, but that's ok because it means you can become aware of the causes of your actions and try to change them.



Shorter videos presenting Sam Harris' arguments against free will.





If this is true then doesn't mean it mean that nothing I do is my fault, and nothing anyone does is their fault either? lol
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