Philosophy of Suicide
Posted: January 26th, 2023, 3:32 am
Hey guys! Yes, I know this topic is often taboo and considered to be a bit dark. I've thought about whether I should make this thread or not, given some people on the forum have issues with depression and possibly suicidal ideation. But I figure what the hell...
I've had suicidal ideation on and off for years, possibly since high school. Sometimes life has a way of kicking you to the curb and then head stomping you afterwards. Life doesn't give a f**k about your plans, dreams and aspirations and all the rest of it. So it's better to just let yourself be carried downstream and enjoy the ride. Trying to swim against the current of life is pointless. Might as well just accept your life circumstances and find happiness and meaning in any way you can.
All this being said, this thread isn't being made from an emotional standpoint but rather a logical and philosophical one. In this thread I am emotionally detaching myself from the topic and only looking at it from a position of clinical logic. So I will pose the controversial questions:
1. Why don't more people commit suicide? (I will elaborate more on this later)
2. Why is suicide considered the cowards way out? The act of taking one's own life means that the person would have to override the biological imperative for survival. I think this would take balls. I often joke and tell people that the only reason I haven't killed myself already is because I'm too much of a p***y
3. Is it really selfish? Is it though? Think about it. Yes, people will be hurt. But people dying is a part of the natural cycle of life. Why am I selfish if I want to "log off" earlier than nature intended. Is it not selfish that family and friends might pressure people to continue living for their sake alone? Even if the suicidal person is just suffering every day?
Now to analyse question 1 in more depth. Why don't more people commit suicide?
If you are a Christian you get to leave this world of sin and join the Lord God in Heaven. Im pretty sure there is nothing in the Bible which condemns suicide as a sin, so all religious people could join their God in heaven. But they don't. Why?
If you are an atheist similar logic applies. There are no cosmological edicts passed down by a creator God so if you are suffering why when you can end all of it in an instant?
People who are spiritual see life as the gathering of experiences and growth, so suicide would be a detriment to that end. But with reincarnation as a possibility some spiritual people might decide their mortal coil is void of meaningful experiences and restricts growth and so opt for risking suicide for a more favourable incarnation.
It's an interesting question. The philosophy of suicide is actually quite nuanced as well with differing opinions regarding whether it is a moral or immoral and cowardly action. I'll share a few of these with you all below:
Arguments Against
In western society in particular the act of suicide is seen as a cowardly and immoral act, mainly because it is seen as a selfish and permanent solution to perceived temporary problems. People could seek out therapy and improve their life in any way they can. But I think people who dismiss suicide as cowardly, selfish and even evil, probably don't understand depression or how dark a hole it can be to climb out of. My friend took his own life through depression, an act that has had negative knock on effects for his wife and her children. I really think in most cases the victims of depression and eventual suicide don't think about the consequences or incorrectly assume they are a burden upon their loved ones. This simple isn't true.
I think a lot of Christian inspired philosophy condemns suicide as an immoral action and an affront against God. A way of throwing the gift of life back in his face. Some of the Christians on the forum could elaborate on this, if they wanted to that is. I'm not going to tag anyone though because the topic is pretty dark. I'm interested in knowing in particular whether the Bible itself condemns these actions or whether it simply isn't mentioned at all.
From a deontological perspective Immanuel Kant argues that suicide is immoral for the reason that the victim is considering themselves a means to an end, which is abhorrent. He also argues that since objective morality is grounded in one's own ability to reason, suicide is wrong because it involves removing that ability through the act of ending one's own life, thereby creating a practical contradiction.
Hobbes claims in his Leviathan that natural law forbids man from committing actions which are destructive of his own life or take away the means of preserving it. Disobeying this natural law, through suicide, is irrational and immoral.
Aristotle argues against suicide in his discussion of courage, where he kind of echoes the modern Western view on suicide where killing oneself to avoid emotional pain or undesirable circumstances is a cowardly act. He further argues that it is unlawful and should be so because suicide acts against the interests of the state.
Neutral/Situational
In some cases suicide is seen as an alternative to an impending and certain death. The victim will choose to end their life on their own terms, rather than being burned alive or whatever other horror might await them. This was something I saw when the twin towers were destroyed. People jumped from the windows of the burning towers and plummeted to their certain doom. In this case they took their life into their own hands and ended things on their own terms. Can this act of suicide really be considered immoral? If these nuances exist then how do we determine what is immoral and what is justified acts of suicide?
In the age of the Samurai (1185-1868) when Japan was governed by the warrior class of the Samurai. They had the form of suicide known as Seppuku, which I'm guessing most of us know was considered the honourable way to end one's life I order to redeem oneself for transgressions or the shame of personal defeat. The Samurai didn't consider this form of suicide as cowardly or immoral. It was considered an act of bravery and something which is noble and acceptable.
Arguments That Suicide Is Permissible
There are some philosophers who believe suicide is permissible and that people shouldn't be judged for choosing to end their own life. Confucianism, for example holds that failure to follow certain values is worse than death and so suicide is permissible.
Libertarians for example believe in total bodily autonomy (something I agree with, even though I personally don't condone suicide) and therefore nobody has the right to tell you what to do with your own body. If freedom is self ownership, then do you not have the right to end your own life if that's what you want? If you are forced to live because of social pressure from family and friends for example then you do not truly have self ownership, you belong to them.
Those who support the right to die argue that suicide is acceptable under certain circumstances, such as incurable disease and old age. The idea is that although life is, in general, good, people who face irreversible suffering should not be forced to continue suffering. And I agree with this. Life should not be needlessly prolonged when suffering is the main part of one's life. So old people covered in piss or people who are disabled and have no quality of life should have the right to die without being made to live. The problem is how far should this be taken? Should people who are dissatisfied with life and who are suffering daily have the option to be euphanised? Should their decisions be accepted and respected and understood?
Conclusion
Suicide happens and the main question we have to ask ourselves is: why? In advanced Western societies where people should be grateful to have work and have all the material comforts of modernity and technological advancements etc why do so many people kill themselves?
The answer is simple. The society in which we live is f***ing toxic and life denying. For reasons I've stated in various other philosophical threads regarding the evils of the modern system
viewtopic.php?style=11&f=42&t=46528&p=385897#p385897
And also in my thread about ethics and values. viewtopic.php?style=11&f=32&t=46815&p=385331#p385331
Noble ideals are absent in society, replaced with values of solipsism. There is a complete lack of authentic love and the society of today makes everyone feel alienated and lonely. It's very sad. All in all I think society is the root cause of so many people's depression and eventual suicide.
I've had suicidal ideation on and off for years, possibly since high school. Sometimes life has a way of kicking you to the curb and then head stomping you afterwards. Life doesn't give a f**k about your plans, dreams and aspirations and all the rest of it. So it's better to just let yourself be carried downstream and enjoy the ride. Trying to swim against the current of life is pointless. Might as well just accept your life circumstances and find happiness and meaning in any way you can.
All this being said, this thread isn't being made from an emotional standpoint but rather a logical and philosophical one. In this thread I am emotionally detaching myself from the topic and only looking at it from a position of clinical logic. So I will pose the controversial questions:
1. Why don't more people commit suicide? (I will elaborate more on this later)
2. Why is suicide considered the cowards way out? The act of taking one's own life means that the person would have to override the biological imperative for survival. I think this would take balls. I often joke and tell people that the only reason I haven't killed myself already is because I'm too much of a p***y
3. Is it really selfish? Is it though? Think about it. Yes, people will be hurt. But people dying is a part of the natural cycle of life. Why am I selfish if I want to "log off" earlier than nature intended. Is it not selfish that family and friends might pressure people to continue living for their sake alone? Even if the suicidal person is just suffering every day?
Now to analyse question 1 in more depth. Why don't more people commit suicide?
If you are a Christian you get to leave this world of sin and join the Lord God in Heaven. Im pretty sure there is nothing in the Bible which condemns suicide as a sin, so all religious people could join their God in heaven. But they don't. Why?
If you are an atheist similar logic applies. There are no cosmological edicts passed down by a creator God so if you are suffering why when you can end all of it in an instant?
People who are spiritual see life as the gathering of experiences and growth, so suicide would be a detriment to that end. But with reincarnation as a possibility some spiritual people might decide their mortal coil is void of meaningful experiences and restricts growth and so opt for risking suicide for a more favourable incarnation.
It's an interesting question. The philosophy of suicide is actually quite nuanced as well with differing opinions regarding whether it is a moral or immoral and cowardly action. I'll share a few of these with you all below:
Arguments Against
In western society in particular the act of suicide is seen as a cowardly and immoral act, mainly because it is seen as a selfish and permanent solution to perceived temporary problems. People could seek out therapy and improve their life in any way they can. But I think people who dismiss suicide as cowardly, selfish and even evil, probably don't understand depression or how dark a hole it can be to climb out of. My friend took his own life through depression, an act that has had negative knock on effects for his wife and her children. I really think in most cases the victims of depression and eventual suicide don't think about the consequences or incorrectly assume they are a burden upon their loved ones. This simple isn't true.
I think a lot of Christian inspired philosophy condemns suicide as an immoral action and an affront against God. A way of throwing the gift of life back in his face. Some of the Christians on the forum could elaborate on this, if they wanted to that is. I'm not going to tag anyone though because the topic is pretty dark. I'm interested in knowing in particular whether the Bible itself condemns these actions or whether it simply isn't mentioned at all.
From a deontological perspective Immanuel Kant argues that suicide is immoral for the reason that the victim is considering themselves a means to an end, which is abhorrent. He also argues that since objective morality is grounded in one's own ability to reason, suicide is wrong because it involves removing that ability through the act of ending one's own life, thereby creating a practical contradiction.
Hobbes claims in his Leviathan that natural law forbids man from committing actions which are destructive of his own life or take away the means of preserving it. Disobeying this natural law, through suicide, is irrational and immoral.
Aristotle argues against suicide in his discussion of courage, where he kind of echoes the modern Western view on suicide where killing oneself to avoid emotional pain or undesirable circumstances is a cowardly act. He further argues that it is unlawful and should be so because suicide acts against the interests of the state.
Neutral/Situational
In some cases suicide is seen as an alternative to an impending and certain death. The victim will choose to end their life on their own terms, rather than being burned alive or whatever other horror might await them. This was something I saw when the twin towers were destroyed. People jumped from the windows of the burning towers and plummeted to their certain doom. In this case they took their life into their own hands and ended things on their own terms. Can this act of suicide really be considered immoral? If these nuances exist then how do we determine what is immoral and what is justified acts of suicide?
In the age of the Samurai (1185-1868) when Japan was governed by the warrior class of the Samurai. They had the form of suicide known as Seppuku, which I'm guessing most of us know was considered the honourable way to end one's life I order to redeem oneself for transgressions or the shame of personal defeat. The Samurai didn't consider this form of suicide as cowardly or immoral. It was considered an act of bravery and something which is noble and acceptable.
Arguments That Suicide Is Permissible
There are some philosophers who believe suicide is permissible and that people shouldn't be judged for choosing to end their own life. Confucianism, for example holds that failure to follow certain values is worse than death and so suicide is permissible.
Libertarians for example believe in total bodily autonomy (something I agree with, even though I personally don't condone suicide) and therefore nobody has the right to tell you what to do with your own body. If freedom is self ownership, then do you not have the right to end your own life if that's what you want? If you are forced to live because of social pressure from family and friends for example then you do not truly have self ownership, you belong to them.
Those who support the right to die argue that suicide is acceptable under certain circumstances, such as incurable disease and old age. The idea is that although life is, in general, good, people who face irreversible suffering should not be forced to continue suffering. And I agree with this. Life should not be needlessly prolonged when suffering is the main part of one's life. So old people covered in piss or people who are disabled and have no quality of life should have the right to die without being made to live. The problem is how far should this be taken? Should people who are dissatisfied with life and who are suffering daily have the option to be euphanised? Should their decisions be accepted and respected and understood?
Conclusion
Suicide happens and the main question we have to ask ourselves is: why? In advanced Western societies where people should be grateful to have work and have all the material comforts of modernity and technological advancements etc why do so many people kill themselves?
The answer is simple. The society in which we live is f***ing toxic and life denying. For reasons I've stated in various other philosophical threads regarding the evils of the modern system
viewtopic.php?style=11&f=42&t=46528&p=385897#p385897
And also in my thread about ethics and values. viewtopic.php?style=11&f=32&t=46815&p=385331#p385331
Noble ideals are absent in society, replaced with values of solipsism. There is a complete lack of authentic love and the society of today makes everyone feel alienated and lonely. It's very sad. All in all I think society is the root cause of so many people's depression and eventual suicide.