Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.
View Active Topics View Your Posts Latest 100 Topics FAQ Topics Mobile Friendly Theme
Discussions computers, internet and mobile technology (cell phones, smart phones, iPads).
14 posts • Page 1 of 1
Its a giant scam. I'm Indian and I know how they run the scam.
Do not hire an Indian programmer..Its a Jew scam to get cheap labour for their corporations. The best programmers are White and Chinese but they are expensive so they hire Indians and make force white people to teach them programming only to be fired later on like how it happened in Disney.
Indians are not good at anything as they show on TV. If they show on TV. Then its Jewish Interest.
I was in the Philippines and was amazed on how some of their local softwares were better than Indian ones.
Like asking for Wifi verification in a hotel room. They filipino made one never hung up and always worked while the Indian one i used in Indian hotels always booted me out and the layout was crappy.
Even Filipino programmers are better than Indians.
You cannot say all. Now you may say most, but all? I don't believe that. There are a handful of Indian programmers whom run good hack blogs of how to resolve things when they break.
Mind you, there are programmers from all backgrounds whom post idle, bulls.hit responses and "solutions" on Stack Overflow and Server Fault. It makes you want to bang your head against the wall sometimes.
It's time to expatriate to evade your fate; it's time to expatriate before the barn door permanently closes on "US" sheep.
- Follow me on Twitter @eirizarryRNB
Yes. I agree.. That's a given. There are good programmers but I was talking about the HYPE which gets us eventually.
The amount of Good programmers in India are equal to anywhere else in the world, the question is WHY the Hype on India....because...of Cheap Labour and nothing else.
The hype created around Indian programmers is what makes the Jew CEOs millions.
30 years back...It was Indian are good in Civil Construction aka Good Welders and they all went to Middle Eat to built cities like Dubai while living as slaves.
Indians are really dump...you give them little ego nudge and they will do whatever you ask.
The entire middle east was built by the Indians on the same premise as how skill full Indians are...
Sort of like the hype that indians make the best curries. I far prefer thai curries in terms of innovation in the variety of flavours. Burma must be the worst.
Indian curries look like a big brown pile. Other asian curries are more colourful.
There was no hype about indians in construction for bringing indians to africa. The british brougjt indians simply because blacks are too lazy and too thieving.
This makes some sense. In my experience, Indian programmers are good at talking a lot of mumbo jumbo with seemingly knowledgeable jargon and formalisms, which is good for the academic environment, but they lack in practicality and actual problem solving.
Obviously it's not all of them, one professor I knew was involved in developing some of the latest video codec standards, and he knew what he was talking about.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
The dell call centre takes you to india.all he did was run some anti virus scan remotely. It solved nothing. Since i have a 1 business day support contract dell sent a local tecnician. A white guy. Solved it immediately. Problem wad a screen card that kept freezing.
Wr have since gone off dell since it is owned by jews. And you no longer deal directly with ireland. We now have have to go through a local darkie who is clueless and useless. Adds no value and didnt get what i ordered after 2 weeks for him to install more ram.
Please dont tell me hp is jew owned. I would hate to have to look for a new supplier.
Also lol at the ones that say 'dear sir kindly email me your code'
Stack Overflow is a POS site with many arrogant c*nts that offer just snark as opposed to solutions. I would bet fschmidt would exterminate them as well.
I particularly hate the ones that reply to people's questions with "what are you trying to do" "show us some code".
If it wasn't for the posters that actually respond to the -sometimes really obscure- questions, right away and without fuzz, it would have little value.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
Lets just get right to the Point.
Caucasian race is best when it comes to Programming and followed by Japanese, Koreans etc.
Yes. IT IS MOST DEFINITELY racism. Jews are not stupid, for all Deep Underground Military Projects they hire White Men.
The real smart white guy is directly dealing with Aliens and their technology like Bob Lazar, who talked about Anti-Matter and Ununpentium back in the 80s when the mainstream science never acknowledged it
When in mainstream..You only get the technology that is 50 to 5000 years old.
THEY DO NOT CARE FOR OUR COMPUTER PROBLEMS AT ALLLL
On top..Its all about RACE and nothing else.
People who watch too much TV, brainwashed by jews believe in Indians
My Point is...
Do not fall for Equality, Love, Peace and Justice Jew Psy-Op..When your Computer goes down...YOU CALL A WHITE GUY.... ..Its that simple..
They have been singing the same doom & gloom stories about the BPO industry in the Philippines.
Reality is, in IT< there will always be that kind of proportion between workforce barely qualified to support a system, monitors its health in production and troubleshoot it, and workforce who can build such a system from off-the-shelf building blocks, let alone from scratch.
Just like with India, the best developers in the Philippines are invariably found abroad or, more rarely, in some of the few large multinationals. They are a tiny percentage of the total, maybe 5%.
Our company outsources some development work. If you want a solid developer from a reputable firm, say from Eastern Europe, you're looking at $20-30/hour, not all that far from what a fresh college grad in the US would be paid. The biggest advantages, however, are (1) don't need to pay them benefits and (2) can expand/shrink the team freely depending on project needs.
The problem with Indian coding goes back a bit. India is a large place with a large population but a low cost of living and salary as a result. English is also widely spoken. Indian has therefore been perfect for outsourcing unskilled cheap labour where a bit of English is all you need. It's also large enough that despite its problems it can also provide a fairly appreciable enough of a talent pool for it to be worthwhile for a number of big companies to set up shop in India for skilled labour. That talent pool is not inexhaustible.
Once a few big companies had success in that you had everyone else jumping aboard and assuming Indian is "safe". That worked for unskilled labour a lot of the time. For skilled labour it's a very different picture especially as companies went about doing it as though it were unskilled labour.
They'll often hire anyone practically. Very few companies can really select and filter for skill especially when it comes to a place as varied and complex as India. The result is that they get the people and they are cheap but they're not getting the skills. I have seen this first hand, by that I mean I have been to these remote offices and seen managers that really know nothing about code.
An immediate problem is anyone actually good gets sucked up by the higher salaries of bigger companies. India might be cheaper but salaries are still competitive. Unless you're a really big company then it'll be hard for the difference between salaries here and there to make it worth while.
What this equates to is vast numbers of Indians being hired for programming that really can't do it. They've then learnt on the job in a way that's counter productive.
Learning is peer to peer and most are just concerned with getting by. There's understanding of what they do. I see a lot of Indian programmers using Google to find videos which they blindly copy. I see things lime copy paste programming, monkey see monkey do, brute force programming, etc.
There are very variable levels of education in India that contribute but other problems as well. Programming is also a very intellectual job that requires a level of smarts to be decent in it that are above average. In any place where you have swarms of people jumping on the bandwagon purely as its a career prospect and not because they're good at it then most people will suck.
In India people just want to survive somewhere long enough to get YOE and if possible have big or known companies on their CV to a far greater degree than in other places. Everyone is desperate to get on the next rung and if you open up opportunity they're flood in not really concerned about if they are qualified or can do the job well.
I've hired some Indian programmers myself. I don't judge programmers by race or nationality. It all comes down to a code test. I can make observations about those things but they don't belong in hiring. My Indian programmers were top tier and good as any others because they had to adhere to the same rigorous testing that any other candidate would face.
None of this is unique to Indian programmers but in proportionate terms they are among the worst for producing programmers that are atrocious. For every good programmer I get that's Indian a few will fail the tests extremely badly at a rate several times higher than other places. Also working in programming I have now seen the work of and rated some over a thousand programmers. The absolute worst cases and there are some dozens of them nearly all stand out as Indian even though Indian is not the bulk of the hiring pool.
Quite a few times I've been shocked when comparing the test to CV because the candidate will have ten or more years verified employment as a programmer but the test reveals they can't code at all.
What it comes down to is standards. Managers naively jumping on the bandwagon and naively outsourcing to India as purely a budgeting decision have contributed towards the creation of a monster.
There are different sources for this. A major one is that India still really struggles with standards when it comes to just about everything. If you outsource to India and you don't apply standards then don't expect them. To truly understand this you really need to go to India and see it to fully understand it. It's otherworldly. Other places that are developed there are universal standards that you would take for granted coming from a developed nation. India is very different and in that respect this was a disaster waiting to happen.
There are other reasons though. A lot of arrogance and stupidity from people setting up shop in India. Some people believe because it's so cheap you can afford to take the risk on quality, in salary terms the risk is less. In reality there's a lot more at stake then what you're paying workers. The cheaper you get the worse it gets but some people see cheaper and cheaper as lower and lower skill deficit risk! I mean the more you have the greater the chances of having good ones (not). Others think that three C grade devs are the same as one A grade which isn't how it works. Overwhelmingly though it comes down to the people making decisions having no ability to really rate programmer quality and so only go by the manhours and cost per hour. India offering the cheapest became a magnet for these idiots, all, thinking and doing the same.
Some of them realise this but it's then too late because those programmers that may or may not have learnt at your expense and usually to the detriment of your success have their YOE on paper making it even easier to fool the next lot and to keep climbing that ladder.
It isn't only Indian programmers. Despite all the claims about Polish developers being the best I can assure you in general they're rubbish. They have a minimum standard and are rarely sink as low as you you see in India. However they are still on average terrible programmers. Their only selling point is that there's a lot of them, they're cheap and half of them work relatively hard. They also have a major arrogance problem. I've had issues in every job I've worked where incompetent Polish developers like to establish authority irrespective if being far far worse developers.
I've never had any problem with other nationalities. Even the Indians are cool. It took me a long time to accept this. I was discussing a difficult coworker with a Romanian coworker. The Romanian pointed out it was because they were Polish, who tend to be arrogant and bossy. I was instantly defensive of this but after a constant pattern I have to accept it. Once it's an anomaly. Twice a coincidence but three times, then four, then five? Then also not having it with any other nationality.
I quite often see Polish embedded in places with roles and responsibilities way above their skill level. This combative behaviour appears to drive out threats and is discriminatory. They especially like to get there first and then maintain rule over the roost. Not all are that bad but bar one (who while not a problem was also bossy) every one I have worked with has been a nightmare. It comes out much worse when you're a good programmer because they will refuse to accept that and insist on being the superior.
I have a great deal of insight into this because in my ten years of programming half of it hasn't been writing my own code. It's been fixing other people's.