Cornfed wrote:Being a man means that I have ~ 6 times the grey matter of you insect-brained females and don't think any hysterical hormone-driven emotions I happen to have define reality. That is an advantage in creative pursuits.lmd12358 wrote:This is one of the most sexist and frankly annoying posts I have ever seen.
First off, being a male does not give you some special advantage in writing computer software. None.
This has no scientific standing whatsoever and I'd love to see your proof. And 'i read it in an article at one point' is never proof.
Fine, then you should be able to answer an earlier question in this thread and list a few females who are well known coders of open source software. That is the acid test of course, because while whorporations can hire female "programers" just because they have a v****a, to be well known in open source software you have to actually write workable code. You could also list innovative programs the females you mention have actually written, rather than just talk about what they are nominally hired to do.I can list many, many women that I know, personally and professionally, who are excellent programmers.
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What BS, I was simply stating the obvious, as some of the posters here read feminist conspiracy in every single fact of life that affects either, or both genders. It is a fact that women would rather spend their free time taking care of their families or themselves, shopping or involved in some sort of leisurely outdoor activity. I see this happen everywhere in the world, and across different generations as well. Assuming there are very few full-time open source programmers, if you're a professional developer like me, you should know that putting after-office hours to code up something decent that the wider community will benefit free of charge requires not only idealism (which, agreeing with you, is indeed cross-gender) but the time and willingness to spend evenings and weekend sitting in front of your PC, writing code, reading tech reference books, solving challenges, interacting with your peers via forums and e-mail, etc.
Women just don't tend to have the predisposition, the time and willingness to do just that in their spare time. The call of duty from being mothers, wives, or just vain(er) individuals, is just too strong. That, to me, is a quite self-evident proof of why the OS community doesn't sport so many ladies. Within the boundaries of office time, where one's best effort is rewarded by a monthly paycheck, it's a different ball game, where women are indeed a minority, yet do thrive and can show their talents.
Just to wrap what has become a tired thread. I don't agree that the participation in the open source community is a such an important marker of quality of women as software programmers. If one is smart, he or she needs to feel free to show his/her potential as and when he/she fits. In fact, some of the best dev/architects I know in my industry spend little more than their office hours coding, and have a very rich social/personal life beyond work.
While this article is vomitsomely politically correct, it does prove the point about grey matter.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 100142.htm
What exactly are you trying to prove here, my deranged friend?
From the first paragraph...
The study shows women having more white matter and men more gray matter related to intellectual skill, revealing that no single neuroanatomical structure determines general intelligence and that different types of brain designs are capable of producing equivalent intellectual performance.
What you find "vomitsomely PC" is probably the main conclusion of the article, that using gray/white matter ratio as a marker of intelligence is...inconclusive. So a petite woman whose brain size is maybe 80 or 90% that of a giant man is doomed to be dumber than said giant? No evidence, either factual or experiential!
Call me a new-age idealist, but I like to lean on the "spiritualist" interpretation of conscience and human intellectual abilities as given by an immaterial soul connected to said brain no more no less the way a power cord to its source, or an antenna tuned to a radio station. With that in mind (no pun intended), it's blatantly obvious that a small radio tuned to a quality station is better than a massive one only picking up random noise.
it's developed by a woman voiptimecloud. Why such an attitude? a modern woman in the process of evolution is a very intelligent man. It is not necessary at this stage of life - to speak about women!
Just to tie two "beloved" themes together... Come here to the Philippines and walk into the average software house, like I did a few times with one of my Clients, a large conglomerate with bases in Manila (BGC), Cebu and Davao. At least, and I mean at least 30% of the kids I saw in there were girls.
Funnily enough, historically the first batch of programmers of automatic computing machines were mostly women. Whether Ada Lovelace has the primate of being the first known "computer programmer" (her friendship and mail exchange with Charles Babbage is proven, her involvement in the development of his Analytical Engine, less so) or not, it is a fact that most programmers assigned to writing logical code for the first electronic computers like the Colossus at Bletchley Park were women.
Other historical "mothers" of modern computing include Grace Hopper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper).
If I may hazard, the discipline started to become a male-dominated one when many of the projects that grew the computer industry enormously were started by, or assigned to, the military or large corporations like Rand or IBM, which overwhelmingly employed men. Another reason could be that, with increasing complexity and integration of digital computers, the skills required to operate computers were less and less to do with mathematics and logic and more with electronic engineering and "informatics". The latter being study areas where far more men than women were present.
I can't think of any other reasons why women, from being well represented, became a tiny minority all of a sudden.
Things are now changing, as more and more girls embrace STEM degrees and they are happy to venture into the T(echnology) and E(ngineering) as well as the S(cience) and M(athematics). We are likely to see the number of women active in computer science and software engineering increase considerably over the next couple of decades, albeit never to match the number of men.
In my 20 years as a developer...
No they can't write good software.
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Hiring some girls to stick vacuum tubes in the right place does not demonstrate that females are good programmers. (Of course, fighting on the Jewish side in WWII was societal suicide). Getting females into STEM is surely societal suicide. Either they suck in which case we are squandering our only comparative advantage. If they don’t suck it is likely that our best females and the talented men they are displacing are not having children, so we are bringing about Idiocracy. Suicide either way.
They weren't "sticking vacuum tubes", they were doing all the logical programming that allowed those tubes to spit out meaningful results. Back in the days programming languages didn't exists, logical units had to be programmed one by one based on the way they were connected together...some sort of primitive assembly language. Very serious math, logic and electronics were needed to even come close to one of those metal beasts.
Whatever men say, getting girls into STEM is producing better graduates. Full stop. Statistics prove it. I know it by experience. Female students are usually (relatively!) more disciplined and more studious than their male counterparts. While it is true that girls are benefiting from a school/college culture that constantly encourages and empowers them, often at the detriment of male students, this is enough evidence that women are just as intellectually capable as men and - with the right spurs and incentives - they can outrace them.
Lastly, you should stop thinking that having a (STEM) career is the opposite of being a mother. There are plenty of examples of jobless women who could have all the time in their hands to bring up their children in the best possible way, yet they end up being terrible mothers. And women who manage to juggle between their jobs and their motherly roles with good results.