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Should racial differences be acknowledged or ignored?

Discuss racial, ethnic and multicultural issues. Warning: The topics here are likely to be taboo, so if you are easily offended, you are better off not participating here.

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Winston
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Should racial differences be acknowledged or ignored?

Post by Winston » October 3rd, 2012, 9:34 pm

Here is a touchy subject. If anyone focuses on racial differences or draws attention to them, then you enter a taboo area that could cause conflict. It's like you can't even acknowledge them openly. But on the other hand, if you ignore racial differences or deny them, then you are denying science, genetics and obvious differences. Both choices put you between a rock and a hard place.

So how do you find a balance? How do you find a balance when both sides are negative in that one is taboo and the other false?

This is similar to making observations about races, groups or cultures. If one makes observations, one gets accused of stereotyping or generalizing. But on the other hand, one cannot say that differences between groups don't exist either, because that would be patently false. So again how do you find a balance when both sides are negative in that one is taboo and the other false?
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Re: Should racial differences be acknowledged or ignored?

Post by Teal Lantern » October 3rd, 2012, 9:45 pm

Winston wrote:Here is a touchy subject. If anyone focuses on racial differences or draws attention to them, then you enter a taboo area that could cause conflict. It's like you can't even acknowledge them openly. But on the other hand, if you ignore racial differences or deny them, then you are denying science, genetics and obvious differences. Both choices put you between a rock and a hard place.

So how do you find a balance? How do you find a balance when both sides are negative in that one is taboo and the other false?

This is similar to making observations about races, groups or cultures. If one makes observations, one gets accused of stereotyping or generalizing. But on the other hand, one cannot say that differences between groups don't exist either, because that would be patently false. So again how do you find a balance when both sides are negative in that one is taboo and the other false?
I can be aware of differences without hating people because of those differences.
It seems that the races (however you want to define them) each have something needed by civilization as a whole and often do something just a little bit better than the others (at least until globalization equalized a lot) -- like elements on the periodic table.
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Post by fschmidt » October 3rd, 2012, 10:45 pm

Racial differences should be ignored. Cultural differences should be emphasized. Race represents the past, culture represents the future. Each coherent cultural group eventually becomes a race, and each race eventually becomes irrelevant as its founding culture disintegrates.

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Post by Cornfed » October 3rd, 2012, 11:18 pm

fschmidt wrote:Racial differences should be ignored. Cultural differences should be emphasized. Race represents the past, culture represents the future. Each coherent cultural group eventually becomes a race, and each race eventually becomes irrelevant as its founding culture disintegrates.
The trouble with such an approach is that what people are capable of stems in large part from genetics. A functional organic community consists of a network of extended families that feel loyalty to each other due to their genetic similarity and co-operate to produce and distribute resources in a way they are genetically compatible with. This is what works. In the West, societies previously matching this description have generated enough stored surplus resources of one form or another that we have been able to depart from this model and not face immediate ruin. This is called decadence. The thing is that decadently living off the surplus of previous functional society is a temporary situation, as we will soon find out. Best not to succumb to decadence in the first place. You might argue that a functional society could let individuals of other races but compatible culture breed into it. This is arguably sub-optimal as well - a bit like letting a poodle breed into your pig dog pack. Depending on the actual genetic matching it may weaken the viability of the population in whatever niche they have carved out.

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Post by Winston » October 4th, 2012, 7:48 am

That's a good point Cornfed. When I am around Chinese people, even if I don't know them, there is this "genetic connection" that I feel with them. It's hard to put into words, but it is very real. The only explanation I can think of is that you tend to feel closer to those with some genetic connection to you.
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Re: Should racial differences be acknowledged or ignored?

Post by Jester » October 4th, 2012, 8:09 am

Teal Lantern wrote:
Winston wrote:Here is a touchy subject. If anyone focuses on racial differences or draws attention to them, then you enter a taboo area that could cause conflict. It's like you can't even acknowledge them openly. But on the other hand, if you ignore racial differences or deny them, then you are denying science, genetics and obvious differences. Both choices put you between a rock and a hard place.

So how do you find a balance? How do you find a balance when both sides are negative in that one is taboo and the other false?

This is similar to making observations about races, groups or cultures. If one makes observations, one gets accused of stereotyping or generalizing. But on the other hand, one cannot say that differences between groups don't exist either, because that would be patently false. So again how do you find a balance when both sides are negative in that one is taboo and the other false?
I can be aware of differences without hating people because of those differences.
It seems that the races (however you want to define them) each have something needed by civilization as a whole and often do something just a little bit better than the others (at least until globalization equalized a lot) -- like elements on the periodic table.
+1

This is someting we have to face if we are dating across racial lines. My kids will not be like me in every way. Just like that brown-skinned girlfriend has different (but overlapping) qualities compared to the White girls back in the old neighborhood. You have to love people as they are.

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Post by Jester » October 4th, 2012, 8:21 am

Cornfed wrote:
fschmidt wrote:Racial differences should be ignored. Cultural differences should be emphasized. Race represents the past, culture represents the future. Each coherent cultural group eventually becomes a race, and each race eventually becomes irrelevant as its founding culture disintegrates.
The trouble with such an approach is that what people are capable of stems in large part from genetics. A functional organic community consists of a network of extended families that feel loyalty to each other due to their genetic similarity and co-operate to produce and distribute resources in a way they are genetically compatible with. This is what works. In the West, societies previously matching this description have generated enough stored surplus resources of one form or another that we have been able to depart from this model and not face immediate ruin. This is called decadence. The thing is that decadently living off the surplus of previous functional society is a temporary situation, as we will soon find out. Best not to succumb to decadence in the first place. You might argue that a functional society could let individuals of other races but compatible culture breed into it. This is arguably sub-optimal as well - a bit like letting a poodle breed into your pig dog pack. Depending on the actual genetic matching it may weaken the viability of the population in whatever niche they have carved out.
I understand the yearning racial purists (Stormfront folks, Jews, others) have for inbreeding. Obviously in animal breeding, inbreeding strengthens characteristics. And just as obviously, bringing in fresh blood sometimes achieves desired traits. So I don't see racial inbreeding as a moral imperative. To me it is something to be aware of. And as Winston pointed out, it makes relationships easier to have common blood. You understand each other faster and easier. Bigtime. But to those who have chosen to form hybrid cultures - say the upper class of Peru - they in no way harm the pure-Spanish bloodlines in Spain by their choice. A wisely bred mixed breed doesn't eliminate purebreds.

Now for those compulsives who want to eliminate or neuter all the most capable breeds, well, obviously they are destroyers. In other words the right to segregate is part of human instinct and legacy.

But I do think I have a choice of whether to "stay in Spain" or to "explore the New World."

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Post by Jester » October 4th, 2012, 8:27 am

fschmidt wrote:Racial differences should be ignored. Cultural differences should be emphasized. Race represents the past, culture represents the future. Each coherent cultural group eventually becomes a race, and each race eventually becomes irrelevant as its founding culture disintegrates.
Well-stated. Is this your own original statement? Profound - reminds me of Spengler.

Mexicans are still visibly mixing, after five centuries. They mix freely from different races, because of a common culture.

Armenians used to be different peoples, we joined a common culture 3000 years ago. Nowadays some look different from each other, but we would all bristle at the suggestion that we are different races. Culture supplanted race, and became a race.

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Post by fschmidt » October 4th, 2012, 5:30 pm

Jester wrote:Well-stated. Is this your own original statement? Profound - reminds me of Spengler.
Thanks, yes this is my own thoughts. I haven't read Spengler.

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Post by WorldTraveler » October 5th, 2012, 6:34 pm

They should be ignore when talking about 99% of the thing.

They should be mentioned when talking about Pick Up and countries. Certain countries are better for whites, or Asians, or Hispanics. Hispanics play better of course in Hispanic countries. If your a white guy you won't get very far in India. This to me is the only place race should be discussed on a Happier Abroad site.

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Post by Jester » October 5th, 2012, 11:07 pm

fschmidt wrote:
Jester wrote:Well-stated. Is this your own original statement? Profound - reminds me of Spengler.
Thanks, yes this is my own thoughts. I haven't read Spengler.
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Post by abcdavid01 » December 10th, 2012, 1:49 am

Oh, Spengler. Yeah, I've heard of him. That's been on my reading list for a while. I've been reading books in the same genre recently.
Winston wrote:That's a good point Cornfed. When I am around Chinese people, even if I don't know them, there is this "genetic connection" that I feel with them. It's hard to put into words, but it is very real. The only explanation I can think of is that you tend to feel closer to those with some genetic connection to you.
I get that feeling too. But perhaps the cultural argument can be made that just by looking at someone like you, you assume their beliefs and customs (which of course aren't intrinsic to their race) are similar.

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Post by ILoveBlackAmericanWomen » December 20th, 2012, 9:41 pm

Race is basically the species we are.. human. Phenotype differences does not mean that person is another species/race then you. We are the same race just different phenotypes. A bird looks way different than a lion yet it is the same race...animal. A human with low melanin which is white people are the same race as a high melanin human. Black person. Its sad how humanity thinks you have different hair texture and/or melanin level you're a different species than them. It is childish and sad. Another thing is it gets to me when people try to claim a certain look as "property of thier race" example straight hair. I heard people say if women straighten thier hair they want to be white or have White hair when pure Black people have naturally straight hair beforw Whites did. Aboriginal Black people, Africans and pure Black Indians have natural straight hair so how is straight hair a white and/or non Black thing? Studies show a white person can be genetically closer to a black person than another white person. We should notice our physical differences because it is beautiful. Now CULTURE...there is a such thing as that. You have African cultures who believe people should be married before sex then you have western American culture where you are laughed at if you even consider waiting for marriage to have sex.
To be white or black - is to not be a human, but a living definition and label. To be a slave to definition, to fashion, to the industries that market us like cattle, emptying our pockets like the udders of the cow, being paid to cut our bodies for cosmetics, benefiting off of putting harsh chemicals on our heads, making money off of us choosing to live and participate in the reality they created. Don't be "black", don't be "white", don''t be "Asian", don't be "Latin." Destroy the illusion, become human.

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Post by ladislav » March 4th, 2013, 5:05 am

Have you noticed that cats and dogs of different breeds do not have an issue with 'race'? They mount anyone provided its the same species. And they do not call each other names, either.
However, they are aware of the fact that a cat cannot breed with a dog and they don't trust each other either, but at last it's speciesm, not breedism ( racism)
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Post by Raja » March 4th, 2013, 5:15 am

"Race" itself is politically determined. The same people who were once "colored" or negro in the US are now Latino. Groups which are considered as other in the UK and Europe are fellow white man in the US....

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