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The Ugly Mess they Call Multiculturalism

Discuss racial, ethnic and multicultural issues. Warning: The topics here are likely to be taboo, so if you are easily offended, you are better off not participating here.

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ladislav
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The Ugly Mess they Call Multiculturalism

Post by ladislav » February 5th, 2009, 3:35 pm

The Mess They Call "Multiculturalism".

Have you ever noticed how the term “Multi-Cultural� is often applied to the British colonies such as the US, Canada, Australia, and even Malaysia and Singapore, and how few other countries who were not British possessions give themselves such a description? The Soviet Union was a multi-national country and so was Yugoslavia but they were never called “multi-cultural�. Countries in South America have a more rigid class system, but, by and large, the Spanish or Portuguese models have never been called multi-cultural to my knowledge.

I have, on several occasions, come upon a few ultra-right websites who complain that certain elements in America ( such as Jews and Liberals) are aiming at diluting the US "racial purity" by bringing in "non-white immigrants" and turning the US into a multi-cultural nightmare.

There are, on the other hand, left-leaning groups who glorify multi-culturalism and proclaim that it serves everyone's interest to preserve our diversity; that the US has always been a nation of immigrants, and that it should stay that way.

Somehow, I feel that both sides are missing the point, so, being a centrist, I would like to give you my own take on how the much-lauded, much-vilified multiculturalism came about.

When the US was founded, it was primarily an English colony. Because it broke away from England, it sought to do away with a lot of class restrictions of the old society, so, official documents were written and enshrined to create a country based on the principle that ‘all men were created equal‘. The other principle as important in outlining American social philosophy was the "self-evidence" that people born or naturalized in the United States were, by virtue of that, US citizens.

Other countries were not like that and still aren’t. You can be born in Korea, but if you are not Korean by blood, you are not Korean. That’s just how it is there. You can be born in Saudi Arabia, but the Saudi nationality is not given to you because of that. Getting citizenship in those societies is hard, and even if you ever manage to get it, you will still never be one of them in social terms.

In America, these two principles should have been enough to create a veritable melting pot where people would harmoniously and naturally mix with one another and thus create a great American nationality. The same way as it happened in Brazil. However, there were also opposing principles in the US culture of those times which did not allow the One Nation Under God to truly develop, and, instead, lead to several parallel ethno-cultures arising in its place.

1) The birth of the "white" identity.

Most Europeans are not aware of the fact that they are “white�, and do not think of themselves as ‘white‘. Germans think of themselves as Germans, and Poles think of themselves as Poles. The British were English, Scottish or Welsh, not "white". The term 'white' originated during the colonial times, when various Western conquerors came upon the shores of continents where people had a darker pigmentation than these colonists did. Still, in many Spanish colonies, the conquistadors thought of themselves more as ‘Spaniards’ than ‘whites‘. It was in the English colonies that the 'white' self-nomination became the strongest.

Some of the Founding Fathers, after creating a white ’nationality’, went as far as declaring that only the English were “white�, and even people like Germans and Swedes were not. I can’t imagine why, though.

This new white "ethnos" took a deep root in the American psyche and became a cornerstone in creating other identities which eventually split America into several new uniquely American "ethnic groups" the likes of which seem to exist as serious ethnic identities in the US and some other British colonies only: the Blacks, the Hispanics, the Asians, etc.

After the Native Americans had been pushed out and the Founding Fathers had a “white�, mostly ethnically “English� nation in America, they, very contradictorily to their own plans, did not keep it that way. I guess, becoming wealthy was more important. So, they went ahead and brought slaves from Africa. Why? Well, you see, they faced a “labor shortage�, and importing the English was probably too expensive. Slaves worked for free. To them, it seems, growing rich by slave labor while bringing thousands upon thousands of captive Africans into the country was more imperative than preserving a newly found “white nation�. They did not think about what these slaves and their descendants would become in the future, where they would live, how they would change the character of the “white country� that they had been trying to create. In other words, they had two conflicting desires- one for ‘racial purity’ and one for profit at another man’s expense, whoever he may be.

Black people from Africa did not think of themselves as Black, either, until they came to America. They thought of themselves by the name of tribes that they belonged to. However, these African identities were completely obliterated and instead morphed into a new “Black� identity by the virtue of different tribes being dumped together in the New World. They were now called “Black� by the settlers who were calling themselves “White�.

Thus, there were now two nations in the US, one Black and one White. When the slaves were finally freed, the two legal principles mentioned before eventually and, after along struggle ‘kicked in’ in their favor and helped ‘adjust their status‘- the first one again was that ‘all men were created equal’, and the second one was that almost sacred conviction of every American that anyone born in the United States was a US citizen. Following these events, albeit not immediately, a “Black�, and later�African-American� identity was born.

2) The English snobberies:

The first settlers brought a lot of the Old World, uniquely English snobberies with them. The main one was that anyone who was not English and /or who did not act, speak or look English was somehow inferior. Being an American in those times meant to be ‘English’, or, at least, talk and behave like one and have an English name to boot.

OK, it was their country now and they made the rules. This I can go along with. But they again do not practice what they preach and they go ahead and start bringing in boatloads of new immigrants from Europe because they are facing a new labor shortage and need someone to man factories and coal mines. They took advantage of turmoil and hunger on the Old Continent and brought more new, non-English people in.

When the Irish and, later, the Germans, the Italians and the East European Jews arrived, they came up against these merciless English snobberies. Instead of being embraced into a “melting pot�, many were kept at a distance by the people who had come before them and were not accepted as true Americans for a long time. If you had a non-English name, a foreign accent or, God forbid, spoke a foreign language, and did not behave as the original British settlers, you faced ostracism. You were kept at an arm’s length and treated as an outsider. In addition to that, even after you had children in the US, again, the original settlers would still call them Italians, Irish, Jewish or Polish and continued to discriminate against them for some generations to come.

The reaction of the new native-born Americans was to assert pride in their origin, and hyphenate themselves. “I am proud to be an Italian- American! “, “I am proud to be an Irish-American! “ Such hyphenated pride was often simply a backlash to the snootiness of the first English settlers. The new people were Americans because they were born in the US, but for since because they were not British in origin, they would still be considered not quite American for a long time to come. Hence, they would now form a previously unknown “dual� identity the likes of which did not exist in the Old World, where either you were German or you were not, or you were an Irishman or you were not. It was simple there. It became complicated in the US. Hyphenization seemed to solve the problem somewhat.

No such phenomenon took place in South America. People there simply became Argentineans, Uruguayans and Panamanians, although many were from the same countries as the immigrants that came to the US.

In North America, on the other hand, many of such groups became encysted in ethnic neighborhoods and special sections of the cities partly because they needed the support of like souls in the new land, and, partly, because those who had come before them discriminated against them

None of these American ethno- identifying terms helped in creating a single American identity, but rather, further paved the way to what we now know as Multi-Culturalism.

To give the South American example again, if you take a nation like Chile, you will learn that their national hero was of Irish background and his name was Bernardo O’Higgins. However, he is not known as an “Irish-Chilean Liberator“; just a “Chilean� one. In Latin America, they had presidents with names such as Kubischek, and Stroessner and they would just be called Brazilians and Paraguayans, because, in those societies, there was little snobbery against people who were not like the original Spanish ‘founders‘. They were simply and naturally embraced because they had been born in the country. Mostly, the ethnic background was simply not important. Your money and ability was. That is why many Latin Americans of various immigrant origins cannot understand the US people’s tendency to hyphenate and to be proud of being, say, an Italian -(American), all while not having Italian citizenship, never having been to Italy and not speaking any Italian. Why can’t a person be just an American? they muse. They are not aware of how in the US, the English exclusiveness reverberating through two centuries keeps many people from becoming members of society with only one word to describe them as one would be in so many countries south of the US border.

But let us go back to the US. With all the snobberies and the “white identity� still in place, the US government surprisingly goes ahead and purchases Louisiana with its very mixed Creole population, then annexes the northern part of Mexico with its mostly mixed “mestizo� inhabitants, and, later, brings in Hawaii, the Philippines and Puerto Rico under its fold with more “non-white� people now joining the country in one way or another. Add to that the Chinese and Japanese laborers that were brought in to build railroads, and the appropriation of the territories of Guam, Samoa and the Marianas, and the United States again adds to its population a veritable potpourri of new cultures and identities. Please explain to me the logic: If being “white� was so important to so many “original� Americans, why are they bringing in all these cultures that they did not consider as their equals? And, shouldn’t they now become more open-minded to other cultures and ethnicities?


So, thus you now have a cultural dilemma on your hands. How are you going to sort it out? The original principles of the Constitution would again be applied: all people born or naturalized in the US are US citizens and those born or naturalized in US possessions are US nationals. However, because of the unnatural “white nationality “ which now encompassed all the English descendants as well as other Europeans who by now have been “Americanized� still in place with all its superciliousness, there is still there the continued stratification and discrimination across all strata of society. The groups who cannot join “the white nation� form their own divisions based on how they look and how they see each other. Chinese and Japanese become Asian- Americans, Puerto Ricans and Mexicans become Hispanic Americans while Italians and Jews join the “White� or “Caucasian� group.

(By the way, outside of the English language, the word “Caucasian� means people from the Caucasus mountains- Armenians, Georgians, Azeris. However, in the US, it means people with “light skin� having origins in Europe, Middle East and N. Africa now. So the Berbers and Afghans have now joined the English. Kind of inconsistent if you ask me. I often wonder what anthropologists these classifiers have contacted before they coined all these arbitrary terms.)


As a result, all the above groups with the remnants of the Native Americans solidify themselves into a five-race system that is America today.

If you come from another country and move to the United States, you will soon feel the pressure to join one of these ‘tribes’ and abandon your original identity as a Thai, a Peruvian or a German. No, you do not melt into America. You melt into a White America, a Black America, an Asian or a Hispanic America. There is very little that you can do to fight against this ludicrous system as you are now outnumbered by people who will assign you to one of these groups whether you want it or not. This is how these things developed over two centuries and this is now the official policy of the government, schools and workplace. All thanks mainly to the strange New World phenomenon of ‘whiteness’ and the English snobberies which have been rolling down the hill and ricocheting against everybody in this country for two centuries resulting in splitting of the US into such five slices.

Yes, it is true. If you are new to the US, and you want to just make friends with all the people there, you will inevitably clash with this Quinto-Tribal structure sooner or later. If, say, you are a Dutchman who came to the US and you wants to associate with Black Americans, date Black girls, or associate with Hispanic Americans and date Mexican-American girls, etc., you will now encounter resistance and be called “Caucasian�/ “White�/“Anglo� and often made aware of your new identity even though you had never thought of yourself as anything other than “Dutch� before.

Politicians and liberal elements exploit this “Five-Nations in One� divisions to get votes, pitch one group of people against another, while the ultra right elements declare this to be a Jewish conspiracy to obliterate the “white nation� in order to make America safe for the Jews.

Very few people in the US are trying to forge an American national unity on creating an identity that is just purely “American� which is how it should be. The reaction to the original rejection by the English of whoever was not like them two hundred years ago keeps boiling in the veins of the American population up until today.

3) Guilt-ridden Liberals.

The original Protestant culture may have been intolerant, but now, after having understood the ‘evil’ that has been done to anyone who was not “white�, a new formula to correct the situation has been devised- forced integration. So, instead of teaching everybody that people should be just Americans and One Nation under God, and that we should all just be nice to our fellow man, the guilt-ridden elements try and correct the past wrongs by simplifying the problem and applying many broad measures across the board while hurting innocent people in the process.

The new philosophy is this- “We have the following protected species in this country- the African-Americans (never use the horrible word “Black“!), the Asians (do not use the word “Oriental�, it is not PC!), the Native Americans (do not say “Indian“, please!), and the Hispanics which rarely includes Spaniards or Argentineans of German descent. Now, we have to promote these and protect them by law but against whom? Mainly, against the whites. But who are the whites? They are now a bunch of Italians, Jews, Irishmen and other such groups who had been for a long time discriminated against by the English descendants, as well.

They, however, do not seem to get protection in the same way as the above groups. Even if other ‘tribes’ treat them bad for past slavery and oppression (which the Italian peasants from Sicily did not practice, nor did the Irish, the Jews, or the Scandinavian settlers in Minnesota were ever guilty of). It is unfair, again, but now the wrong people are paying for the dead slave owners’ crimes. Some elements among poor whites start forming militias and joining ultra right groups. All while the rich ‘whites’ really do not care. Which brings us to another stark truth in today’s America.

4) Profit is almost always above racial or national solidarity.

For a long time now, an average white American employer, a “John Smith� has discovered that hiring a Jose Rodriguez from Mexico costs less than hiring another John Smith from the US. Jose Rodriguez will work for less because his family is often in Mexico, and Mexico is cheaper than the US. $50 a day is a fortune in Mexico. Jose Rodriguez is working hard and is very happy with his job. But the other John Smith, the employee, is complaining that he is not making enough. The Smiths live in the US; not Mexico. School tuition is high, housing is expensive. He wants more money. ‘To hell with a fellow John Smith,� says the Gringo employer-“I am hiring Jose Rodriguez who is here illegally. I’ll save money in the process and make a fatter profit.�

In the US, when it comes to money, profit by any means possible often takes precedence over race, nationality, ethnic origin, citizenship or patriotism. Americans will usually hire anybody who costs less. The “white cause� is now opium for the poor, unemployed, and oppressed rural whites. But the economic reality is still this: an illegal Mexican plumber will come to your house and repair your faucet for $30. An American plumber (often white, but, sometimes, black, Hispanic or Asian) will charge you $200 for the same job.

What will a white American rather have- a white mechanic who presents him with an $800 bill for simple repairs on his vehicle, or an illegal Mexican mechanic who will repair his car for $300 or less? The answer is obvious.

For years, indignant comments have been made about illegal immigrants more than half of whom come from Mexico and Central America with the far-right groups seeing it as a conspiracy to destroy “the White Race�. Why don’t they address the real culprits who hire these people in the first place? -mostly other white Americans who are only thinking about making money off of cheap workforce. It is not about race. It is about the cost of labor. Before, you could get Europeans to come to the US and work cheaply, but now Europe is richer than the US, and even East Europeans would rather go and work in Germany or Portugal and make Euros than travel to America and make dollars which are now worth less and less. That is the main reason why you do not see so many Europeans coming to these shores anymore.

The Hispanic population in the US will continue growing not because of some preposterous Jewish conspiracy, but simply because Gringo employers will welcome these cheap workers since they make them rich. And, because the US law states that anyone born in the US is a US citizen, the children of these immigrants will be unconditional US citizens in the future. And they will bring their families to join them. Forces of economics are what is shaping the US ethnic demographics, not some fantasy meetings by mythical Elders of Zion in Williamsburg.

Another thing that a “white� American (or any other American) has also discovered very recently was that outsourcing a job that was meant to go to a John Smith or even a Jose Rodriguez in the US, to a Mr. Singh in India or a Mr. Lee in China was even cheaper. That means more money saved and a wider profit margin. So, what is more important? Hiring a fellow “white“, or even a fellow American of another ethnic group, or saving more money and becoming rich in the process? The answer again is obvious.

This leaves poorer ‘whites’ in America angered by the fact that their jobs and wages are being eroded and many of them become resentful of these new workers further keeping America divided. Some join the Skinheads (instead of going to computer schools) and mistakenly rant against people that have nothing to do with the “Destruction of White America“. Blacks, too, feel the pinch and blame the illegals for stealing jobs instead of placing the blame on American employers who hire such workers. These job-related squabbles further drive the wedge between all these groups in the US, and forever keep America from becoming a One Nation Under God.

This way the divisions among many ethnicities in America based on the original British insular snobbishness, mistrust, jealousy, selfish profiteering, lack of respect for the fellow man, the puttering Melting Pot that melts unevenly and with great interruptions, and the resulting, long-lasting, uneasy Salad Bowl has been given a fancy name of Multi-Culturalism to camouflage its ugliness. The school systems and the government’s unscientific and artificial ethnic classifications further divide people by giving them unnatural identities that have no equivalent in the countries where these people had originally come from.

Somehow we cannot seem to be able to correct the situation by following the Latin American example; we simply cannot teach in schools what many other countries in the Americas teach their kids: “You are all Panamanians“, “You are all Venezuelans“or “You are all Brazilians“. “You are all Americans� is hardly ever taught.

I guess neither the Founding Fathers, nor their followers ever went down to the many places on the another side of the equator to see that people can actually get along more and become much more of a One Nation Under God without creating a clumsy and unnatural social system that breeds nothing but continuous unhappiness for all concerned
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english/british woman sick of living amongst transplants

Post by odbo » December 5th, 2011, 11:08 am

mirror: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lU44e2yVVg


The top rated youtube comment was: "that kid has No future lol."
The zombies just don't get it. She's probably the only mom on that train actually thinking about what kind of future her son will inherit.

Last edited by odbo on December 19th, 2011, 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by publicduende » December 5th, 2011, 12:42 pm

Ignorance is bliss :D Probably just pissed off about her next welfare check being late.

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publicduende
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Post by publicduende » December 5th, 2011, 12:51 pm

Odbo, British kids will inherit the future the status quo has long planned for them, and their kids, and their grandkids. Race, social and immigration status mean nothing in this context. Please spare the Old White America bull.

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Re: The Ugly Mess they Call Multiculturalism

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » December 5th, 2011, 2:50 pm

ladislav wrote: Somehow we cannot seem to be able to correct the situation by following the Latin American example; we simply cannot teach in schools what many other countries in the Americas teach their kids: “You are all Panamanians“, “You are all Venezuelans“or “You are all Brazilians“. “You are all Americans� is hardly ever taught.
Nicely written essay and I concur on all but the quote above.

Latin America is a poor example to emulate in my opinion. The ethnic divisions there tend to be deeper and far more stratifying than in the US, although the divisions are hidden under the guise of "class."

In most Latin countries, terms like Cholo, Prieto, Rubio, Moreno, Grifo, etc, are the words that distinguish groups of people and each group is assigned a social class role as rigid and anywhere in the world.

For that reason, social mobility is extremely difficult in Latin America and the elites tend to be the miniscule progeny of Spanish and Portuguese settlers with few exceptions.

The multicultural nature of the US is perpetuated by the media even more than the schools. I think we all would be better off with ethnicity de-emphasized.

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Post by ladislav » December 5th, 2011, 3:04 pm

The Brits colonized one quarter of the world and exploited its people and then also bestowed upon them all kinds of British nationalities ( they have several tiers of it). Now they are the ones being invaded.
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Post by Mr S » December 5th, 2011, 3:56 pm

A+ Well done; A gold star for you! :-) Now for your next assignment, submit this to an established online periodical.

Suggestion: Even though I know you dislike Pravda (they aren't the original from Soviet times anymore, just the new owners bought or borrowed the name); I bet if you submitted this to their editorial department they would publish it for the world to see. (They like anything that undermines the superiority of Anglo culture) Use your previous Ukrainian or Russian name if you want to avoid using your current name or an alias.

Mail@pravda.ru
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Post by ladislav » December 5th, 2011, 4:46 pm

Mr S wrote:A+ Well done; A gold star for you! :-) Now for your next assignment, submit this to an established online periodical.

Suggestion: Even though I know you dislike Pravda (they aren't the original from Soviet times anymore, just the new owners bought or borrowed the name); I bet if you submitted this to their editorial department they would publish it for the world to see. (They like anything that undermines the superiority of Anglo culture) Use your previous Ukrainian or Russian name if you want to avoid using your current name or an alias.

Mail@pravda.ru
I have submitted it to online English periodicals and they have published it. That was 5 years ago. This is an old article.

You have no idea how I was bashing Russia on some websites - in Russian, though.

I do not cooperate with the Russians in any way except teaching English to them, and do not support their agenda in no way. Pravda??? Shudder! They are an organ of the Communist party. They are bloody imperialists ( the difference is that they do not spread wealth but just idealism) and they had created a far worse system in their country than even what we see in the US. But I guess no one here would care about things like that. I generally do the bashing where it is due. It is just that I do not do it in English. You should have seen the sh1t I wrote about Puerto Rico in Spanish.
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Re: The Ugly Mess they Call Multiculturalism

Post by ladislav » December 5th, 2011, 5:14 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
ladislav wrote: Somehow we cannot seem to be able to correct the situation by following the Latin American example; we simply cannot teach in schools what many other countries in the Americas teach their kids: “You are all Panamanians“, “You are all Venezuelans“or “You are all Brazilians“. “You are all Americans� is hardly ever taught.
Nicely written essay and I concur on all but the quote above.

Latin America is a poor example to emulate in my opinion. The ethnic divisions there tend to be deeper and far more stratifying than in the US, although the divisions are hidden under the guise of "class."

In most Latin countries, terms like Cholo, Prieto, Rubio, Moreno, Grifo, etc, are the words that distinguish groups of people and each group is assigned a social class role as rigid and anywhere in the world.

For that reason, social mobility is extremely difficult in Latin America and the elites tend to be the miniscule progeny of Spanish and Portuguese settlers with few exceptions.

The multicultural nature of the US is perpetuated by the media even more than the schools. I think we all would be better off with ethnicity de-emphasized.
In Latin America as well as here in the Philippines there is discrimination, no doubt about it, but there are definitely several major differences.

1) In Latin America these groups are not elevated to the status of ethnicity or a separate nationality. They do not have a separate accent or dialect with which they speak as an ethnic group.
2) The names you have mentioned are not official designations as in the US. They are not used as voting blocks or to get aid or in any other official capacity. There is no official hyphenation or self designation. A person of any descent born in the country will be called by its name officially. There is no marking of race by the police, either.
3) The people of the poorer classes in Latin America are all friendly to each other, and the poorer, the friendlier. They intermarry and hold very little racial prejudice against each other if any at all. They mingle socially and help each other. There are no neighborhoods that are officially assigned as - this is an area for Cholo Mexicans, this one is for Guero Mexicans. While in the US, they are friendly at the top but mean and nasty at the bottom to the point of vicious hatred and are totally segregated as in South Africa or even worse. And ethnic ghettos prevail.
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Post by E_Irizarry » December 5th, 2011, 8:16 pm

@ladislav,

Don't forget about how the indians of modern-day Argentina were wiped the f**k out by Spanish settlers even way before Italians had begun to flee there during WWII and thereon out.
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Post by Falcon » December 5th, 2011, 10:37 pm

The people of the poorer classes in Latin America are all friendly to each other, and the poorer, the friendlier. They intermarry and hold very little racial prejudice against each other if any at all. They mingle socially and help each other. There are no neighborhoods that are officially assigned as - this is an area for Cholo Mexicans, this one is for Guero Mexicans. While in the US, they are friendly at the top but mean and nasty at the bottom to the point of vicious hatred and are totally segregated as in South Africa or even worse. And ethnic ghettos prevail.
Very true. During my last visit to Mexico, I talked to a guy who had returned from working as migrant farmworker in the California Central Valley. He expressed his bewilderment to me and his friends at how some neighborhoods were "puro gringo" (all Anglo) or "puro negro" (all black). He said that if he tried to walk into one of those neighborhoods, people would often stare at him and wouldn't want anything to do with him. His friends thought all that was quite unusual. In the US, we take this phenomenon for granted. But as always, the last thing a fish would ever study is water.

Racial hierarchies do exist in Latin America, but you won't find Native Americans segregated into neat little plots of reservation land. Even though the Spanish created hierarchies, at least they were still part of the same society. The Spanish were obsessed about categorizing the different types of racial mixtures, but those racial mixtures at least were extremely common in society and seen as something normal. The Anglos, however, kicked the "others" out and either permanently segregated them or exterminated them. The Anglos didn't even bother to catalogue all the different types of miscegenation, but rather completely prohibited all of it. The Spanish were not paranoid to the point of strictly enforcing any "one-drop rules."

Same with the Philippines vs. Malaysia and Indonesia. See the difference (Germanic colonizers vs. Latin colonizers).

Philippines: Former Spanish colony with lots of "mestizos." Intermarriages are very common. Many Chinese were integrated into mainstream colonial society when they converted to Catholicism.
Malaysia: Former British colony that is highly segregated. Malays, Indians, and Chinese almost never intermarry, and are strictly categorized as either one or the other. Malay-Chinese enmity is still the norm.
Indonesia: Former Dutch colony that segregated the Chinese and "natives." Racial programs against the Chinese were part of the Dutch's "divide-and-conquer" strategy. The Chinese could never fully integrate, even if their ancestors had already been in Indonesia many centuries ago.
Last edited by Falcon on December 5th, 2011, 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by E_Irizarry » December 5th, 2011, 10:50 pm

@falcon,

Mabuhay to my madness. LMAO!

So yeah, actually, Mexico ran part of the Luzon by remote proxy for Spain.
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

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- E. Irizarry (2012)

"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)

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Falcon
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Joined: November 7th, 2011, 12:59 am

Post by Falcon » December 5th, 2011, 10:59 pm

Yes indeed. In Acapulco museums, I saw parts of ships that were built in shipyards in Cavite, Philippines, which is directly to the south of Manila. There were also huge caches of Ming and Qing dynasty pottery, jewelry, and clothing. The Philippines was also Spain's (and Mexico's) connection to China. Many Chinese, as well as Filipinos and Malays, actually came to Mexico via Manila.

The Chavacano language, a Spanish-based creole spoken in Zamboanga City, Mindanao, is heavily influenced by Mexican Spanish. Tagalog itself also has lots of Mexican Spanish influence. Nahuatl words in Tagalog include "tiangge" (market) and "tsonggo" (monkey).

In fact, there is a city in Pampanga called Mexico. It's directly adjacent to San Fernando, which lies to the south of Angeles City.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_galleon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_i ... _to_Mexico
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_se ... hilippines

E_Irizarry
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Joined: July 5th, 2008, 9:07 am
Location: The Corporation ( the U.S. of Gay )

Post by E_Irizarry » December 5th, 2011, 11:08 pm

K maldito mono! I get it. LOL

Yo estaba hablando español mientras estaba en Zamboanga. Hay demasiado crimen por ayi. K tristeza sea!
"I appreciate the opportunities I have in America. Opportunities that allow me to live abroad." **Smiles** - Have2Fly@H.A. (2013)

"The only way to overcome that is to go abroad to get a broad."
- E. Irizarry (2009)

"MGTOW resilience is the key to foreign residence. You better muthafuckin' ask somebody!!"
- E. Irizarry (2012)

"I rather be ostracized by 157.0 million (27.3% of the US of Gay pop), then to appease 1 feminist." - E. Irizarry (2013)

TanBoy by DNA | Despedido, Hugo Chavez...Descansa en paz!

ladislav
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Posts: 3623
Joined: September 6th, 2007, 7:30 pm

Post by ladislav » December 6th, 2011, 1:31 am

E_Irizarry wrote:@ladislav,

Don't forget about how the indians of modern-day Argentina were wiped the f**k out by Spanish settlers even way before Italians had begun to flee there during WWII and thereon out.
Yes, true but also, they have intermarried with them pretty heavily. A Gaucho is a half Indian, half Spanish cowboy.
The Spaniards still considered Indians as human beings. They also considered blacks as human beings. The Germanic colonizers considered these savages. The Catholic church wanted many parishioners to increase its income. So they welcomed everybody. There is no such thing as a black church in Latin America vs a white church as in the Protestant US or S. Africa.

The Portuguese were even more benign. When they went to Brazil, the first batch of settlers assimilated with the Indians to such an extent that the following ships were amazed to see them adapt local customs and become part of the tribe. Since then Brazil generally does not like immigrants who do not want to assimilate- the Germans and the Japanese had to be restricted because these were not trying to fit in. In the Anglo countries they hypocritically complain that immigrants do not want to assimilate but at the same time they rarely let them join the mainstream unless they look and talk like the mainstream people already. And racial and ethnic segregation is even encouraged and called "multiculturalism".
In the Philippines part of the naturalization process is a requirement that the immigrant has to be integrated and mixed with Filipino people and show himself as a member of the Philippine society. Needless to say, this society warmly embraces those who want to fit in no matter their ethnicity.
Last edited by ladislav on December 7th, 2011, 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!

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