Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.



View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


MGTOW Lesson for the Gynocentric Cucks

Discuss Anti-Feminism, Men's Rights and Misandry.

Moderators: fschmidt, jamesbond

Re: MGTOW Lesson for the Gynocentric Cucks

Postby Yohan » September 13th, 2017, 7:18 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:.....
I have seen scores of marriage apologists crash and burn in marriage over the years. Some of them even remarry again and again until they realize the extent of the social bamboozle being played upon them.

Almost every married man I know who has been married over 10 years has confided in me that they would not do it if they had the chance to do it all over again.


There is some truth in it what you say with this comment.
Just a few sentences how I see the present situation.

The point is about which country are we talking and when the marriage took place - we married 1976 and we are about of same age.

If I compare Japanese law 40 years ago with Western law and the situation of a husband and a father today, I can cry.
I can assure you - if I had the choice now under such miserable conditions, I would NEVER marry again.

It's less about women - it is more about the legal situation, which gives me a status of a second class citizen.

Japan is still good comparing it with Western family law, not so discriminating against men, but many Japanese men are nowadays into something similar to MGTOW out of economic reasons and prefer to be single, less income but working less hours, going out with women only as friends but no sex....

I can only strongly advice men, especially in Western countries 'Do not marry' 'No co-habitation' 'No children' 'No adoption' and of course not even think about 'doing special nonsense' for example 'being a proud sperm-donor'. LOL.

Re-marry the same woman again after a divorce? Yes, some crazy men are really doing that, these are idiots who never learn, hopeless...
User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2463
Joined: April 3rd, 2014, 6:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN




Check out our Dating Sites and HA International Romance Tours!



Re: MGTOW Lesson for the Gynocentric Cucks

Postby Yohan » September 13th, 2017, 7:33 pm

MrMan wrote:I agree that society would probably function better if women are under the care of fathers and husbands, legally. Exceptions or other arrangements could be made for widows. It would also clear up many of the marriage law related issues that MGTOW use as a basis for their anti-marriage argument. They could exclusively resort to name-calling and shaming tactics.

I don't think feminism is sustainable in the long-term. Western society has been moving in the direction of 'freedom for all' and egalitarianism for a long time. Monarchies gave way to democracy. The experiment with slavery during this time gave way to anti-slavery laws. People who did not own land were given the right to vote in democracies. Women were given the vote. But then feminism took that to an extreme where it has begun to hurt men. Women voting and having the influence they have is solely due to the 'benevolence' of men, possible a distorted and uninformed benevolence in some ways. This sort of thing leads to chaos in society. There could very well be a backlash toward a better-ordered society, or else things could disintegrate more into chaos. What has happened to marriage through the sexual revolution and feminism is part of the chaos.

Being opposed to marriage is being in favor of chaos in society. If there is marriage, the woman has someone to be legally responsible after dad dies if she doesn't have a father to be responsible for her legally.


While your comment sounds quite reasonable in general, I cannot agree with your opinion that 'opposed to marriage is in favor of chaos in society'.

It's simple, I am not opposed to marriage - the question is however how does such a marriage contract look like for me as a man, as husband and father?
As long as I am supposed only to deliver free of charge and to be kicked out anytime because another man is showing up, I am opposed to marriage.

I cannot change the present legal situation and I cannot change the rotten morality of women - but I still have to right to say 'NO' and to reject marriage, and this is the advice I give to all men, young or old as MGTOW.

The present legal situation concerning 'marriage', parents rights etc. is a bad joke for any Western man.

The worst as I see it is 'divorce' - with the ex-husband forced to support his ex-wife (even when she was cheating on him) over decades, sometimes even for life. - What stupid retarded society creates such laws?
User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2463
Joined: April 3rd, 2014, 6:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: MGTOW Lesson for the Gynocentric Cucks

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » September 13th, 2017, 7:44 pm

Yohan wrote:
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:.....
I have seen scores of marriage apologists crash and burn in marriage over the years. Some of them even remarry again and again until they realize the extent of the social bamboozle being played upon them.

Almost every married man I know who has been married over 10 years has confided in me that they would not do it if they had the chance to do it all over again.


There is some truth in it what you say with this comment.
Just a few sentences how I see the present situation.

The point is about which country are we talking and when the marriage took place - we married 1976 and we are about of same age.

If I compare Japanese law 40 years ago with Western law and the situation of a husband and a father today, I can cry.
I can assure you - if I had the choice now under such miserable conditions, I would NEVER marry again.

It's less about women - it is more about the legal situation, which gives me a status of a second class citizen.

Japan is still good comparing it with Western family law, not so discriminating against men, but many Japanese men are nowadays into something similar to MGTOW out of economic reasons and prefer to be single, less income but working less hours, going out with women only as friends but no sex....

I can only strongly advice men, especially in Western countries 'Do not marry' 'No co-habitation' 'No children' 'No adoption' and of course not even think about 'doing special nonsense' for example 'being a proud sperm-donor'. LOL.

Re-marry the same woman again after a divorce? Yes, some crazy men are really doing that, these are idiots who never learn, hopeless...

Yohan, you are a Red Pill elder whom I have the deepest of respect. I understand that you married at an advanced age AFTER you lived as a MGTOW. You therefore have the best of both worlds going for you.

If I am as lucky as you, I too might consider a latter portion of life child with a younger woman overseas (hopefully unmarried) as icing on the cake if you will. Because financial and lifestyle ruin is unlikely for the man who has already lived a fruitful and individuated life in a Red Pill manner.

You left Austria on your terms, and resettled abroad in a great country where you enjoy the satisfaction of youth near you and a legacy to leave after you. I say well done!

My views against marriage do not really apply to red pill men who have the shield of knowledge that MGTOW offers. This is for the young ones who have been brainwashed as blue pill.
Feel free to visit my sites and to leave your respected words of wisdom:

http://thedeclineofmyamerica.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/user/ContrarianExpatriate
Contrarian Expatriate
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 6:57 am

Re: MGTOW Lesson for the Gynocentric Cucks

Postby MrMan » September 14th, 2017, 8:15 am

MrMan wrote:How many anti-marriage MGTOWs are there? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand? How many billions of men have been married throughout history.

The vast majority of MGTOW have never even heard of the term. Morever, different cultures have different terms for what we call MGTOW. My estimation is that MGTOW is in the hundreds of millions AND GROWING.

We see evidence of this exponential growth in various phenomena like books imploring men to "Man Up" and start marrying against their best interests again, falling reproductive rates in the middle and upper classes, and the ubiquitous female complaints of, "Where have all the good men gone?" My response is that they have gone their own way! :lol: [/quote]

About history, kings and philosophers who could afford education and luxury typically married, too. Most of history--and much of what we can read about marriage in history-- is written about influential people, not peasants. Marriage was never just for peasants.

I think of MGTOW as men who hold to a certain philosophy, not just men who have opted out of marry... what one author called 'Men on Strike.' Where is this happening? It's happening in the western world, where 1) The family legal system leans anti-male. 2) In countries that have strong legal institutions that can actually enforce legal judgments. 3) Among populations where social mores and religious beliefs do not strongly sanction sex outside of marriage. This is the 'Happier Abroad' forum. In much of Asia, the first two points do not apply, and in many parts of Asia, none of those points apply.

In the US and other western countries, it still is possible to find a decent woman to marry, just difficult. And the man has to manage the relationship properly.

You should call your philosophy MGTYW, since you have been insisting on men going your way. If a man wants to marry and does so, he's going his own way. You've been insisting on conformity to your anti-marriage philosophy.

MrMan wrote:You treat anti-marriage MGTOW like a religion.

This is an example of PROJECTING behavior. In other words, you are a self-professed "Christian" full of blind and irrational faith in what was written millennia ago and faith in what you are systematically programmed by family and church to believe. This is quintessentially divorced of reason.

MGTOW tend to live life based on RATIONAL, LOGICAL, and PRAGMATIC considerations, yet you are accusing MGTOW of being like a religion. If you had more self-awareness, you would know you are describing and criticizing yourself when you project in that manner. [/quote]

No, you are the one whose beliefs are irrational. It is not irrational to believe in revealed religion. But it is irrational to think that every man who says he is pleased with his marriage must be in denial, because that is what an ideology developed on blogs and in YouTube videos requires you to believe. There is no reason to think that is true of all married men. And there is certainly no reason to extend your ideology to men who live outside of the European world who marry women from cultures where women are expect to cook and clean and look to their husbands for leadership. You can't guess or insist universal truths into being.

I talked with a Communist who set up a table on a college campus in the early 1990's. He really believed that there should and would be a Communist revolution and that society would go through a transformation to socialism to a point where people were sharing with each other without the government. It doesn't make any sense to think that Marx could 'prophesy' the final stages of Communism accurate and to be an atheist at the same time. A philosophy, economic approach, or social ideology just based on someone's ideas of how they think things will play out should not be treated like some kind of absolute truth. Neither should MGTOW ideas about marriage.
MrMan
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1993
Joined: July 31st, 2014, 3:52 am

Re: MGTOW Lesson for the Gynocentric Cucks

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » September 14th, 2017, 10:56 am

MrMan wrote:About history, kings and philosophers who could afford education and luxury typically married, too. Most of history--and much of what we can read about marriage in history-- is written about influential people, not peasants. Marriage was never just for peasants.

:lol:
None of that helps your argument Mr. "Man." It actually sinks it deeper into the soil of fallacy. The historical record is replete with examples of monarchs who suffered under the royal OBLIGATION for them to be married and the resultant pressure to marry undesirable spouses who were chosen for them for political or economic reasons. Many of these marriages were to half-siblings, cousins, and other blood relatives and it produced genetically defective offspring. Have you ever heard of Hapsberg Jaw? This is a genetic disorder from European inbreeding borne of theses marriages that you hold up as examples. There have been mentally retarded monarchs because of the practice, most notably Charles II of Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain.

Even recently, Prince Charles admitted that Princess Diana was chosen for him and he was miserable married to her. Are these things simply lost on you?

And for good measure, you threw in "philosophers" as being pro-marriage. In this very thread, I pointed out that some of the world's most prominent philosophers and thinkers Plato, Schopenhauer, Rousseau, Aristotle, Nietzsche, Einstein, and Tesla were extremely critical of the concept of marriage or outright anti-marriage.

Could you produce a list of philosophers of equal or greater prominence who were pro-marriage? It is time to put up or shut up.

MrMan wrote:I think of MGTOW as men who hold to a certain philosophy, not just men who have opted out of marry... what one author called 'Men on Strike.' Where is this happening? It's happening in the western world, where 1) The family legal system leans anti-male. 2) In countries that have strong legal institutions that can actually enforce legal judgments. 3) Among populations where social mores and religious beliefs do not strongly sanction sex outside of marriage.

Again, it is becoming increasingly evident that you simply are not too bright. I have provided examples IN THIS VERY THREAD of how MGTOW is exploding internationally OUTSIDE OF THE WESTERN WORLD Dummy. You don't get to deny facts and make up others to support your stupid arguments.

MrMan wrote:In the US and other western countries, it still is possible to find a decent woman to marry, just difficult. And the man has to manage the relationship properly.

The question is why would a highly intelligent, successful, wealthy man WANT to do so, not that it is difficult. Men who are unthinking drones will always seek to do what they are conditioned to do of course. MGTOW are not that.

So, shall this circle jerk of your denying facts and fabricating others to suit your deeply flawed position continue?

This pattern of repeated denial and dishonesty is PRECISELY why I believe most married men to be miserable. The divorce statistics (even in Indonesia) bear that out alone, but your pattern of denial of fact on this thread further confirms it. :lol:
Feel free to visit my sites and to leave your respected words of wisdom:

http://thedeclineofmyamerica.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/user/ContrarianExpatriate
Contrarian Expatriate
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 6:57 am

Re: MGTOW Lesson for the Gynocentric Cucks

Postby MrMan » September 14th, 2017, 5:11 pm

Contrarian Expat,

You asked about philosphers and marriage. Where do you get that Aristotle was anti-marriage? He believed a man should exercise marital rule. That assumes marriage as a given. Plato seemed to take marriage as a given as well. Greek philosophers often gave advice about marriage. How many of them wanted to totally irradicate marriage? Where were the Roman philosophers calling for that? You might be able to pick a few philosophers out of history. Aristotle being critical of women is not the same as being anti-marriage. A traditional belief in marriage includes the man being in charge, also.

Where do you get that Aristotle or Plato were anti-marriage. Just a few names: Francis Bacon. Kant. John Locke was very promarriage. It separates us from the animals. Kierkegaard never married but regarded it as a legitimate thing and wrote on the topic. Confucius was pro-marriage as well. I do not know all the writings of all the philosophers, but I know enough that it would be foolish to pretend that the majority of philosophers wanted to totally do away with the institution of marriage.

You can find Roman Catholic monks and priests who were influential in philosophy who advocated from celibacy, but their beliefs reserved a place for marriage as well, even if it was below celibacy.

Even Ayn Rand, with her depressing philosophy I'd consider to fall into the Ethical Egoism category-- which seems similar to your own approach to ethics in some ways-- thought marriage was an important institution, even if she may not have embraced it in ways others would consider ethical.

Kings and emporers were the ones in history who had the power, possibly, to do away with marriage. They didn't do it. You got stuck on a certain period of time in European history where kings and queens married their cousins for so many generations that it led to health problems. Kings had wives for millennia before the Hapsburgs appeared on the scene. They did not do away with marriage.

Many of the marriage problems in the west that MGTOWs kvetch about are the result of feminism and the sexual revolution. Having all the kids in society raised as bastards by their mothers without the father in the home isn't going to fix the problem, so doing away with marriage is not the solution. Men opting out of marrying (or just reproducing with) the feminist, social injustice warrior is one way to help prevent the disease from spreading.

Some of us marry women from other countries and live in those countries, where the family law system is not anti-male.
MrMan
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1993
Joined: July 31st, 2014, 3:52 am

Re: MGTOW Lesson for the Gynocentric Cucks

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » September 14th, 2017, 6:44 pm

Some timely commentary about marriage from TFM, an intellectual stalwart in the MGTOW community.

Feel free to visit my sites and to leave your respected words of wisdom:

http://thedeclineofmyamerica.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/user/ContrarianExpatriate
Contrarian Expatriate
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 6:57 am

Previous

Return to Anti-Feminism, Men's Rights and Misandry

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest